[DaveNote]

I'm new to AudioCircle, and this circle is of interest to me because I've been using digital files as opposed to CDs for many years now. I own a Bryston BDP-1 and find it outstanding for playing files ripped from ordinary CDs; indeed, better than playing them on a CD transport. It can play high Rez files, which sound great, but my problem with the future of high rez as a practical alternative as opposed to a hobby is this. Because the market for them remains small, the few places where they can be found offer a very limited selection. That may be fine for hobbyists who use them as much as test records for their systems as anything else. But if one wants a collection of a favored type of music or certain artist, then the format is a dead-end, at least for now. We've seen this effect before in other formats in a vicious cycle of limited selection reducing further demand thereby keeping selection limited, ad nauseum. My question is whether and when members of this circle think there might be a breakthrough given that the mass of listeners seem to be satisfied with MP3 quality files?

[Mike Nomad]

Not sure what you are asking here...

You are leaving out at least a few between CD & Hi-Rez downloads: DVD-A (now there's an example of a dead format) and SACD.

Audiophile quality releases have always been on the margin, because audiophiles are on the margin. People into music playback to the extent that AC participants are, are simply not the norm.

Currently, Hi-Rez is not the limiting factor. Physical media is. There is a fundamental shift underway in how consumers are getting their music. Downloads, as a format, represent a much lower barrier to entry for Hi-Rez content: Distributors (in the traditional record business sense of the term) and their distribution model are dead. They just don't know it yet.

In short, the "breakthrough" you are looking for is here. Like all change in the music business, there is much inertia to overcome.

[ted_b]

Dave,
Welcome to AC.

HiRez, especially as we discuss it (DVD-Audio, SACD, downloads, BluRay audio) will always be a niche market, never a practical alternative.  But it's hardly "very limited", unless you are just into heavy metal or so.  The amount of music rippable (or simply playable) from DVD-Audio, SACD and BluRay is quite strong for classical enthusiasts, and not bad for classic jazz, etc (Blue Note, Fantasy, Impulse, Verve).  And the download sites are improving their selections all the time.  The list of sites is now quite long (see sticky thread or the list I gave James for Bryston thread).  So to call it a "mirage" is quite inaccurate... I wouldn't have started this fairly well-attended Circle if I thought it was a mirage. 

The main issue with hirez music is that it really requires quite a highly resolving system, unlike hidef tv where you buy a $700 flatscreen and show 1080i and voila, the differences are frickin obvious.  Not so with hirez music, which like good wine, requires some patience, some time and a fair level of obsession.    But as someone who has gone out and bought a good outboard Linux player (BDP-1) I'd be interested to know what DAC you use with it.

[jjc1]

I'm new to AudioCircle, and this circle is of interest to me because I've been using digital files as opposed to CDs for many years now. I own a Bryston BDP-1 and find it outstanding for playing files ripped from ordinary CDs; indeed, better than playing them on a CD transport. It can play high Rez files, which sound great, but my problem with the future of high rez as a practical alternative as opposed to a hobby is this. Because the market for them remains small, the few places where they can be found offer a very limited selection. That may be fine for hobbyists who use them as much as test records for their systems as anything else. But if one wants a collection of a favored type of music or certain artist, then the format is a dead-end, at least for now. We've seen this effect before in other formats in a vicious cycle of limited selection reducing further demand thereby keeping selection limited, ad nauseum. My question is whether and when members of this circle think there might be a breakthrough given that the mass of listeners seem to be satisfied with MP3 quality files?

I assume as a BDP1 owner you are familiar with the "Bryaton BDP1 HI Res Digital Player" c
Child Board associated with the Bryston Circle?  If not, tune in. A lot of info and chats about BDP1 and Hi Res downloads.

[DaveNote]

Thanks for your replies, which are very helpful to me. I confess that my use of the term mirage may have been wrong or a bit of hyperbole. I agree the old distribution system is all but dead. Where I live I have a hard time finding even the category of music I like, and it is only marginally better finding the exact titles online. What I gather from your comments is that some of you think high rez will continue to be a niche market, while Mike thinks the the breakthrough already is here, and perhaps feels (maybe even rightly so) that I've just missed it. Which suggests to me the reality may be in the eye of the beholder. For me, the final break through will have come when I can download the music of Ike Quebec, Hampton Hawes, and Junko Onishi directly from the Net to my BDP-1. In answer to Ted's question, I use a Bryston BDA-1 DAC. Again, many thanks.

[ted_b]

Bossa Nova Soul Samba in 24/352k (ripped from the AP SACD to DSDIFF and converted to 24/352k) on my Antelope Gold is sublime.   

[ebag4]

InfernoSTi posted this on the Hawthorne Audio site the other day:

A MESSAGE FROM NEIL YOUNG
May 17, 2011

2012 will be the year that record companies release High Resolution Audio. This is huge for our industry. Since the advent of the CD, listeners have been deprived of the full experience of listening. With the introduction of MP3s via online music services, listeners were further deprived.

The spirituality and soul of music is truly found when the sound engulfs you and that is just what 2012 will bring. It is a physical thing, a relief that you feel when you finally hear music the way artists and producers did when they created it in the studio. The sound engulfs you and your senses open up allowing you to truly feel the deep emotion in the music of some of our finest artists. From Frank Sinatra to the Black Keys, the feeling is there. This is what recording companies were born to give you and in 2012 they will deliver.

-- Neil Young

http://www.neilyoung.com/messagepage.html


Best,
Ed

[jjc1]

Thanks for your replies, which are very helpful to me. I confess that my use of the term mirage may have been wrong or a bit of hyperbole. I agree the old distribution system is all but dead. Where I live I have a hard time finding even the category of music I like, and it is only marginally better finding the exact titles online. What I gather from your comments is that some of you think high rez will continue to be a niche market, while Mike thinks the the breakthrough already is here, and perhaps feels (maybe even rightly so) that I've just missed it. Which suggests to me the reality may be in the eye of the beholder. For me, the final break through will have come when I can download the music of Ike Quebec, Hampton Hawes, and Junko Onishi directly from the Net to my BDP-1. In answer to Ted's question, I use a Bryston BDA-1 DAC. Again, many thanks.

  You might have to go the vinyl route for some of that. I have some really nice Hampton Hawes records(as we old folk used to call them).

[DaveNote]

I sure hope Neil Young is justified in his optimism that 2012 will be the year of the High Resolution. I wonder what gives him the confidence to make such a prediction. Being an "old folk" myself, I have a bit of Hampton Hawes on CD, but I gave up vinyl long ago. However, as the information about this circle cautions, I won't venture into the debate about the merits of these different formats. Because I rip all my new music for playback with my BDP-1, I was wondering if anyone knows offhand if ordinarily a computer with a DVD player could rip DVD-audio?

[ted_b]

Dave,
Yes and ripping DVD-Audio has a sticky here with a primer I wrote..  Simply use DVD Audio Extractor (latest release) or DVDAExplorer.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69151.0

Net/net, peruse the Circle.  You'll find some good stuff I think.   

[DaveNote]

Dave,
Yes and ripping DVD-Audio has a sticky here with a primer I wrote..  Simply use DVD Audio Extractor (latest release) or DVDAExplorer.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69151.0

Net/net, peruse the Circle.  You'll find some good stuff I think.   

Thanks Ted for the link, which looks most useful. These excellent instructions tend to show that ripping media for using digital players is certainly doable, but hardly plug-and-play, something I learned some time ago. Only hobbyists in this day and age are willing to go through these steps. Perhaps it also suggests why high rez may stay a niche market for some time to come. It used to be that a new device, say a video or CD player, came to be a mass market item when enough people saw the improvement over the previous device (tape or turntable), to drive the cost down and, therefore to create an in-home base of equipment necessary to encourage content producers to expand their lists of material. For those with specialized tastes, this mass market created large niches so that lovers of say, Ike Quebec, could obtain what they wanted.

What makes high rez growth an uphill battle, IMHO, is that not only has a whole generation of people grown accuustomed to MP3 quality, but also to ease-of-use and greater flexibility. For example, when James Tanner announced the BDP-1, he stressed all the things the unit wouldn't be able to do, and that it was above all a replacement for the CD player. But users have a way of having their way. The BDP-1 wasn't meant to play Internet radio stations, but it is playing them now, some of which are in Bryston's firmware upgrades and today, James announced that his people are trying make it even easier to add stations. The moral of the story is that it may be tough to get a generation of people raised on MP3s to see the benefit of high rez, and all the rest of us - even old timers like me - to go through the technical gymnastics presently needed to obtain and then move a high rez file from one medium to another.

If there is light at the end of the tunnel for high rez, it may be something that a smart guy told me about worldwide markets. Niche markets have the potential of attracting a lot of people if the net is cast widely enough. That's what the Internet has shown. Or, as in audiophile circles, you can have a small market that can be sustained if consumers in those markets are willing to pay a premium for products produced in low volumes. As far as audio is concerned, I've paid a premium for my gear. As an old timer, a personal barrer for me is paying an arm and a leg for a disc. But, then, again, it still cheeses me off to pay more than a dollar for a haircut.