[*Scotty*]

neeko,Everyones opinion is valid,for them. How much weight you give to an opinion other than your own is your decision.
Scotty

[Mitsuman]

Well if this had been one post on it,but its been kind of a theme with him on this thread so i don't see how finding out his gear is going make any difference. His context is well established on the topic and what he thinks.

You could always look at the gear he has in his gallery photos. 

[JohnR]

Back on topic, has any one mentioned the cones themselves? At least some drivers use controlled cone breakup e.g. the JX92s I have, probably a lot (all?) of other full range drivers. Metal structures do change with vibration e.g. in extreme case metal fatigue. So you wonder if there may be an effect there.

Not that it's a life and death question, but...

[*Scotty*]

I kind of doubt that metal cones or ceramic cones change over time due to the vibration they undergo. In most cases they are designed to not flex very much within their bandpass region.
I suspect that some paper and paper composites may change a little over time.
  What I have not seen is a before and after measurement of a drivers harmonic distortion and IM distortion. This might provide some insight into what people report hearing as break-in.
Scotty

[planet10]

a drivers harmonic distortion

Geddes has shown that this has no correlation with what things sound like, do not likely to show anything.

And some metal cones are designed o flex... they do break in. But it is mostly suspension.

dave

[JohnR]

For fullrange drivers, the passband is everything If cones didn't flex, then whizzer cones wouldn't work (not saying whizzer cones are good, it's just an example to illustrate).

The main cone in a whizzer design is manufactured so as to flex more in the outer diameter than in the center.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Full-range_drivers

Some designers do use cone flex deliberately:

In Ted Jordan's own words: "Basically, whereas conventional designs endeavour to make the cone as rigid as possible, we accept the fact that it is impossible to maintain this rigidity throughout the audio range. At high frequencies, the cone will flex. We have chosen to work with this deliberately. Our cone profile has been developed to control this flexure such that the effective cone diameter decreases progressively with rising frequency."

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/47lab/shigaraki3.html

[werd]

Does one's gear need to be of a certain caliber in order to have a valid opinion? In that case, mine's probably not worth much  .

OTOH,

Jack, you do allow that speaker break-in is a real thing, but you seem to be annoyed that people find it worth discussing and comparing experiences. Maybe you're right, maybe there's not much to it, but it sounds like other people are saying they have seen/heard otherwise.

I, for one, appreciate your perspective on it, because it's interesting to hear all sides. But you're probably better off taking issue with specific assertions that you disagree with, rather then dismissing folks as tossers pulling shennanigans. Just sayin'.

Well no your gear does not to be of a particular quality to have an opinion. But i can tell you for sure that unless your system is of decent resolution and clarity, speaker break in will not mean anything.

I have had gear thats low rez and still be good. Its not what i like though, but i like gear that reveals itself. Gear that shows off the source. Tweaking the source with cabling, platforms and conditioning is all very evident. This is the kind of gear that will be meaningful with speaker breakin. If you are sitting with an outlaw reciever or a rotel reciever and you come on here and start beaking off about not hearing speaker breakin then you are total douch.

[jackman]

Well no your gear does not to be of a particular quality to have an opinion. But i can tell you for sure that unless your system is of decent resolution and clarity, speaker break in will not mean anything.

I have had gear thats low rez and still be good. Its not what i like though, but i like gear that reveals itself. Gear that shows off the source. Tweaking the source with cabling, platforms and conditioning is all very evident. This is the kind of gear that will be meaningful with speaker breakin. If you are sitting with an outlaw reciever or a rotel reciever and you come on here and start beaking off about not hearing speaker breakin then you are total douch.

Hi Werd,

I'm not sure if my system meets your stringent requirements but it sounds pretty good to me.  I think it has sufficient resolution and clarity for me to at least form an opinion about break-in and other audio related things.  I don't know what kind of system you are using and don't think you need an expensive system in order to form an opinion.  Heck, I know lots of guys with really high end (expensive) systems that do not produce realistic or enjoyable sound.  There are lots of very popular "audiophile" speakers who's popularity will always remain a mystery to me.  I've had several of these in my home and have listened to them in the homes of my friends and associates. 

Some of my comments were tongue in cheek and I was having a bit of fun with the lads on this site, but I stand by my comments regarding the placebo effect.   It is very real, alive and well in audiofool land.  I'm not saying there is no such thing as break-in, or other commonly held audio beliefs, but I am saying there is more to this than many people choose to accept.   Remember green markers on CD's? 

I've been around audio for a long time and I'm just tired of all of the BS that is too common in this hobby...and that story about the sand-bags was true.  That guy and his buddies were putting sand bags on a very high-end digital front end, using high end, very resolving speakers.  They heard a difference but I do not feel the difference was really there.  I believe they heard a difference because they expected to hear a difference. 

If you are ever in the Chicago area, give me a PM.  You are welcome to come over and check  out my system (and have a beer or two).  If, after you hear it, you feel it lacks resolution or clarity, you are welcome to post that I am a douche, and a deaf one at that.  I promise not to disagree with you or even come to my own defense.   

Cheers,

Jack

PS - I was selling that Outlaw receiver for a friend! 

[werd]

Hi Werd,

I'm not sure if my system meets your stringent requirements but it sounds pretty good to me.  I think it has sufficient resolution and clarity for me to at least form an opinion about break-in and other audio related things.  I don't know what kind of system you are using and don't think you need an expensive system in order to form an opinion.  Heck, I know lots of guys with really high end (expensive) systems that do not produce realistic or enjoyable sound.  There are lots of very popular "audiophile" speakers who's popularity will always remain a mystery to me.  I've had several of these in my home and have listened to them in the homes of my friends and associates. 

Some of my comments were tongue in cheek and I was having a bit of fun with the lads on this site, but I stand by my comments regarding the placebo effect.   It is very real, alive and well in audiofool land.  I'm not saying there is no such thing as break-in, or other commonly held audio beliefs, but I am saying there is more to this than many people choose to accept.   Remember green markers on CD's? 

I've been around audio for a long time and I'm just tired of all of the BS that is too common in this hobby...and that story about the sand-bags was true.  That guy and his buddies were putting sand bags on a very high-end digital front end, using high end, very resolving speakers.  They heard a difference but I do not feel the difference was really there.  I believe they heard a difference because they expected to hear a difference. 

If you are ever in the Chicago area, give me a PM.  You are welcome to come over and check  out my system (and have a beer or two).  If, after you hear it, you feel it lacks resolution or clarity, you are welcome to post that I am a douche, and a deaf one at that.  I promise not to disagree with you or even come to my own defense.   

Cheers,

Jack

PS - I was selling that Outlaw receiver for a friend!

Hi Jackman

I am far more amicable than it seems. Yes if i was in the area of Chicago i would take you up. Of course the same invitation is extended to you. If ever in  buttfuck saskatchewan (Saskatoon) you are certainly welcome here for some steaks and good listening.

I am just saying that speaker breakin is real and has a lot to do with your quality speaker­. Look -.... if I ordered a speaker assembled in FLA and i unpacked them here in Sask how can breakin not be a factor?  The speaker would be mass loaded with moisture. Our climate is dry. You would take a ton moisture out of the driver, especially if paper. The glue would need to settle. There are a whole ton of things to consider.

We use our ears to decide. Our ears are sensitive to this kind of stuff. I said earlier you cannot install anything here (house)wood without a sit period or else it would warp to our eyes.  Its just that simple.