Capacitors

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lanchile

Capacitors
« on: 7 Aug 2011, 10:07 pm »
This question goes to James, I always wondered where you get your electrolytics capacitors from. I guess they are custom made, since regular electrolytics capacitors do not last too long and they dry out. and to offer a 20 years warranty they MUST be really good. I heard they are made in Germany :scratch:. I have build many diy amps and I always use good caps like Mundorf and black gate.

Levi

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #1 on: 8 Aug 2011, 12:28 am »
Nippon Chemi-Con sounds familiar to you?

All capacitors have life expectancy.


Phil A

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #2 on: 8 Aug 2011, 12:33 am »
This the company - http://www.audio-cube.nl? 

Levi

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #3 on: 8 Aug 2011, 12:43 am »
Actually this is what is in my 7BSST.  80v 1000uF version.  :thumb:

http://www.circuitdiy.com/product/nippon-chemi-con-kmh-series-1000uf-100v-e-capacitor

vegasdave

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Re: Capacitors
« Reply #4 on: 8 Aug 2011, 12:59 am »
Cool, good to know.

lanchile

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #5 on: 8 Aug 2011, 01:05 am »
Wow, I thought they were custom made for Bryston, but they are just regular 105 low esr caps like Panasonic fc. :scratch:

Levi

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #6 on: 8 Aug 2011, 01:05 am »
Yes. They are excellent and highly reliable.

http://www.diyaudio.gr/nippon_chemicon.htm

Cool, good to know.

vegasdave

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Re: Capacitors
« Reply #7 on: 8 Aug 2011, 02:06 am »
Yes. They are excellent and highly reliable.

http://www.diyaudio.gr/nippon_chemicon.htm


Very cool. Only the best in a Bryston amp!

lanchile

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #8 on: 8 Aug 2011, 04:14 pm »
Sorry capt brown nose, you're wrong. As usual.

The best would be the Duelund CAST-Cu Copper / Paper-in-Oil Capacitor - 100VDC – 2% tolerance.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

I guess they can use better caps, but the price will be way, way, higher than what it is now. I pay $30 USD for a 10.000uf 63v mundorf cap for power supply and I use 4 so that $120 USD just for the caps in the power supply and these caps are very good but, There are better ones that will cost me four times that price.

Levi

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #9 on: 8 Aug 2011, 04:18 pm »
You pay more because you only buy a few of them. You get much better pricing if you buy large quantities like most manufacturers do.

*Scotty*

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #10 on: 8 Aug 2011, 04:46 pm »
One of the best capacitors for power supplies in audio amplifiers is the 4 pole capacitor originally developed by Sprague more than 20 years ago for switching power supply applications.  It has a very low impedance and ESR out to 1 megahertz.   
 It was designed to suppress the noise inherent in switch mode power supplies.  For audio applications these capacitors are helpful in keeping the noise on the AC power line from getting into your circuitry. They also contribute to lowering the dynamic impedance of your power supply.  The lower the dynamic impedance your power supply has the quicker the supply can meet the demands the amplifier makes for current when reproducing musical transients.  Along with the transformers size and design the 4 pole capacitors are a critical part of a low dynamic impedance power supply design.   
  Why doesn't everyone use them if they are so good? They are very expensive. Jensen Capacitors located in Denmark maybe the only manufacturers of them right now in the entire world.  The Jensen factory completely shuts down production every summer and goes on vacation.   
 You have to plan months in advance for this interruption in delivery which means tying up capital in parts on the shelf. Here is a link to the Jensen website http://jensencapacitors.com/products/capelyt/elyt4prad/   Here is a link to a PDF doc about 4 pole caps http://jensencapacitors.com/public/dokumenter/4pole.pdf
Scotty   

SoundGame

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #11 on: 8 Aug 2011, 05:00 pm »
This is an interesting discussion.

James has made some clear statements that Bryston's pursuit is for the best performance they can get (regardless of product cost / design) to deliver on their objectives of long-term reliability, linearity and accurateness. 

From this, I understand that if they found a cap that outperforms their current part, that is stable over the long-term (20 yr warranty), reliable and provides consistent gains in performance - they would use it.

They have supposedly tried a number of different parts - some more expensive - before settling with their current one's.

That all said - it would be interesting if someone has actually modded a Bryston amp - incorporating "so-called" better parts with any increase in overall performance, while maintaining reliability.

James Tanner

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Re: Capacitors
« Reply #12 on: 8 Aug 2011, 08:31 pm »
FROM ENGINEERING:

Hi James;

Bryston offers a 20-year warranty on our power amplifiers and preamplifiers. For that reason, we do a great deal of research of filter capacitors. We need to be sure they will last longer than the warranty period before needing service. 
 
As with many electronic components, it turns out that the lifetime of electrolytic caps is dependent on temperature, with lifetime cut in half for every 10 degree C increase in operating temperature. Or, to look at it another way, if high temperature electrolytic capacitors are specified, their predicted lifetime doubles for every 10 degree C reduction in operating temperature below their maximum rating. It is for this reason that Bryston uses electrolytic capacitors rated for 105 degrees C minimum. These components are normally specified for 3000-5000 hours of operation at maximum temperature and current. Bryston amplifiers run at approximately 40-45 degrees C average temperature over their operating life. If we subtract 45 degrees C from 105 degrees C, we get 60 Degrees, or doubling lifetime 6 times, equaling a factor of 64 increase in lifetime beyond its 105 degree C specification. 3000 hours X 64 = 192,000 hours, or 22 years of 24-hour-per-day operation, worst-case.
 
It is very important to recogize exactly what is required to specify and produce a long-life, high-temperature electrolytic capacitor: First, the design must minimize flaws and impurities in all the separate parts of the complete component. Any impurities will lead to unwanted chemical reactions which would contribute to the deterioration, corrosion and degradation of the internal materials, especially as temperature rises, eventually destroying the component. Second, internal electrical connections must be made especially low-resistance, to reduce temperature rise with current-flow, (i.e., ESR must be extremely low, in the low milliOhm range). Third, seals and methods of excluding contaminating influences must be particularly effective and long-lasting to maintain stasis of all internal materials even under brutal conditions. In short, the closer to theoretically 'perfect' design and construction a capacitor is, the longer it lasts, and as importantly, the better it does its job.  That means it also sounds better because it more effectively maintains the purity of the musical signal.
 
There are many 'exotic' capacitor manufacturers making expensive hand-assembled components, but we find that many times they don't stand up to tests of purity and long lifetime. If Bryston finds a better component, based on actual tests of performance and construction that guarantees long lifetime, we use it.

lanchile

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #13 on: 8 Aug 2011, 10:14 pm »
Well, The boss has spoken!!! if Bryston chose these kind of capacitors, it means they are the best ones for the job.

Levi

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #14 on: 8 Aug 2011, 10:45 pm »
I hate to quote my self but it is the sum of parts that creates the magic. It is all in the engineering. :thumb:

James Tanner

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Re: Capacitors
« Reply #15 on: 10 Aug 2011, 07:03 pm »
I don not think this argument is going anywhere positive guys :duh:

james

redbook

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Re: Capacitors
« Reply #16 on: 10 Aug 2011, 08:58 pm »
Yes, I think we are heading towards another pointless pissing contest. I like the caps I have . The amp still improves after 11 years..............  :deadhorse:

95Dyna

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Re: Capacitors
« Reply #17 on: 11 Aug 2011, 03:24 pm »
I don not think this argument is going anywhere positive guys :duh:

james

There is a way to disagree without the gratuitous ad hominum attack which in this case was rendered by anonamemouse.  Drop the "capt. brown nose" remark and simply say I disagree, tell him why and the thread goes on without incident.

SoundGame

Re: Capacitors
« Reply #18 on: 11 Aug 2011, 03:29 pm »
We are all connected in the Circle-of-L....BRYSTON.