Super V - Bass?

JDUBS · « **on:** 27 Jul 2011, 08:00 pm »

Danny, how high can the bass system for the Super V go? I'm investing solutions for my Unity horns which need a bass system that operates up to 300hz and I like the idea of push pull.

Thanks,
Jim

jtwrace · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 08:03 pm »

150 Hz max

ebag4 · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 08:20 pm »

I am pretty certain Danny has them playing up around 200 Hz.

Best,
Ed

Danny Richie · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 08:23 pm »

In the W frame that I tested these in I ran the dial all the way up and reached a crossover point that was right at 300Hz. I wouldn't advise going higher than that because it then starts splitting the mid-range into different drivers.

JDUBS · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 27 Jul 2011, 08:23 pm

In the W frame that I tested these in I ran the dial all the way up and reached a crossover point that was right at 300Hz. I wouldn't advise going higher than that because it then starts splitting the mid-range into different drivers.

Excellent, thanks Danny! I figured they went relatively high and 300hz is right on the money for my setup.

-Jim

JDUBS · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 11:20 pm »

Danny, are the w-frame plans (for the SW12-16) available? Also, what amp did you use to test the up to 300hz?

Are the drivers wired such that they are push pull? I.e., one driver wired out of phase and reversed with the other?

Thanks again,
Jim

Danny Richie · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 11:30 pm »

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Danny, are the w-frame plans (for the SW12-16) available?

The plans are at the bottom of the SW-12-16FR page.

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Also, what amp did you use to test the up to 300hz?

The A370PEQ

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Are the drivers wired such that they are push pull? I.e., one driver wired out of phase and reversed with the other?

The are wired so that they are in phase while one is facing the opposite direction.

JDUBS · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 12:15 am »

Quote from: Danny on 27 Jul 2011, 11:30 pm

The plans are at the bottom of the SW-12-16FR page.

The A370PEQ

The are wired so that they are in phase while one is facing the opposite direction.

Thanks Danny for the plans and amp. I forgot that the A370PEQ's crossover is defeatable.

Regarding the wiring of the subs....is this push pull? I'm trying to picture what you are saying. If its not push pull, then have you tried that?

Thanks...again,
Jim

Danny Richie · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 12:41 am »

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Thanks Danny for the plans and amp. I forgot that the A370PEQ's crossover is defeatable.

There is no crossover defeat. That is using the stock crossover.

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Regarding the wiring of the subs....is this push pull? I'm trying to picture what you are saying. If its not push pull, then have you tried that?

Push pull typically refers to one pushing while the other is pulling in a sealed box, but I guess the same applies to the open baffle. So electrically one is wired out of phase of the other, but mechanically they are in phase.

JDUBS · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 01:37 am »

Quote from: Danny on 28 Jul 2011, 12:41 am

There is no crossover defeat. That is using the stock crossover.

Push pull typically refers to one pushing while the other is pulling in a sealed box, but I guess the same applies to the open baffle. So electrically one is wired out of phase of the other, but mechanically they are in phase.

Danny, I think we're on the same page regarding the push pull terminology..thanks for clarifying.

With regards to using the stock A370PEQ crossover, I thought it didn't go nearly as high as 300hz?

This is one of the threads that go me "into" push pull:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/177905-thread-those-interested-ppsl-enclosures-13.html

I think that technique combined with open baffle loading of servo drivers would be pretty sweet (up to 300hz). Let me know if you disagree.

-Jim

Danny Richie · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 01:51 am »

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With regards to using the stock A370PEQ crossover, I thought it didn't go nearly as high as 300hz?

Don't confuse the electrical control with acoustic output.

For instance, the Super-V woofer crosses at about 200Hz to the upper driver, and the crossover controls are set at 90Hz.

JDUBS · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 02:25 am »

Quote from: Danny on 28 Jul 2011, 01:51 am

Don't confuse the electrical control with acoustic output.

For instance, the Super-V woofer crosses at about 200Hz to the upper driver, and the crossover controls are set at 90Hz.

Yeah, I guess I don't get this. Is there some sort of conversion table out there? I would love to just cross it (8th order) with my software at 300hz, but it sounds like that isn't possible.

-Jim

Danny Richie · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 02:41 am »

You can change the acoustic output of an open baffle speaker with the shape of the baffle. So with baffle shape and the controls on the amp you can pretty much make these things do whatever you want.

JDUBS · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jul 2011, 03:57 am »

Danny, thanks for fielding my questions on this topic - I appreciate it.

How would the max output be across the frequency range (300hz down to as low as you recommend) in the w-frame ob? Why the choice of w-frame vs. h-frame in this instance?

Thanks,
Jim

Danny Richie · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Jul 2011, 02:20 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 28 Jul 2011, 03:57 am

Danny, thanks for fielding my questions on this topic - I appreciate it.

How would the max output be across the frequency range (300hz down to as low as you recommend) in the w-frame ob? Why the choice of w-frame vs. h-frame in this instance?

Thanks,
Jim

I just happen to have been using a W frame in this testing to keep the height down. After testing various combinations I like the H frame best.

JDUBS · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Jul 2011, 02:30 am »

Thanks Danny! Can you still get to 300hz with the H-frame? Also, how is max. output from 300hz on down with this?

-Jim

jtwrace · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jul 2011, 12:51 pm »

How many pairs do you plan on using?

JDUBS · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Jul 2011, 06:55 pm »

2x pairs - 1 per side.

-Jim

JDUBS · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Jul 2011, 10:36 pm »

Ok, so for me to make a decision on this setup, I need the following info.

-output across the freq. range (300hz down) for one w-frame with two drivers.
-sensitivity of one w-frame with two drivers (in db with 1 watt of supplied power).
-gain (in db) of one amp (the one with the balanced input - the A370-XLR).

Thanks,
Jim

Danny Richie · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Aug 2011, 01:51 pm »

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-output across the freq. range (300hz down) for one w-frame with two drivers.

That will really depend on room size and listening distance.

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-sensitivity of one w-frame with two drivers (in db with 1 watt of supplied power).

Not really relevant as you have your own volume control on the amp. So it can easily match anything by turning a knob. It even easily matches the 97db sensitivity of the Super-V.

By the numbers though, a pair of the woofers will be 90.7db sensitivity via 1 watt/1 meter.

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-gain (in db) of one amp (the one with the balanced input - the A370-XLR).

Amp gain can be measured by voltage.

FYI, at RMAF a few years ago a pair of Super-V's was easily hitting a measured 105 peak durning music play back. It also did this all the way down to the rock bottom.