which 2011 mac mini?

arthur · « **on:** 27 Jul 2011, 09:19 am »

Hi
I'm thinking of buying a 2011 Mac Mini to mainly use as a 2 channel front end, feeding into a USB DAC.
I plan on upgrading it with an SSD and 8gb of memory. It will be connected to a monitor via a long HDMI cable.

I will also be using it to stream 1080p movies to an HD projector. But this is a secondary function - my primary concern is with 2 channel audio quality.

I was wondering if going with the base model would suffice for my needs. I'm tempted by the 2.5GHz model because of it's superior graphics card, but am not sure if this is an overkill for my needs, and if it will actually add more noise with another fan, etc. ... and then there is the i7

Thank you!

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 01:10 pm »

I use an old Mac Mini with a core solo processor and 2 gigs of ram. P'layback with Decibel. Works great! I don't think you should worry too much about high end computer power.

I know there is a lot of talk about the USB interface, I think it presents it's own set of problems regarding data transmission.

I use the optical out with excellent results. I do understand that it is limited to 24/96 but that is certainly good enough for me.

ultrafi · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 01:30 pm »

I'm sure Simon is content; but, I must take exception to this in terms of advice.

Within the last year, I retired a Mac mini with a solo processor. It was a dog! And, you couldn't really make good use of Snow Leopard. Now, you won't be able to run Lion. And, that's just the beginning.

Sonically speaking, the newer minis are a HUGH upgrade in sonics.

At the price of the new mini, i wouldn't consider anything other than new.

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 02:11 pm »

I am sure your advice is good as well...

I can run snow leopard just fine. I have no interest in Lion. I run nothing else on this computer except Decibel and web surfing just fine.

i wasn't suggesting an older computer, used minis are overpriced in any event. My point was that I am not convinced that maximizing computer power will make much, if any sonic difference.

I run hi rez files and they sound very nice. I have a revealing enough system to tell the difference.

it is just my opinion, and just that, that bits come out of the computer, jitter is the most important thing. the receiver chip and using memory playback will be of benefit.

I really don't understand how fancy power cords and solid state drives will make much, if any difference.

i guess that's just me. I know there are lots of discussions to this here, and I certainly don't want to get in the middle of it.

arthur · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 06:18 pm »

Thank you for your replies.

My main concern is choosing between the 2011 models. If the base model can play high def video (blue ray files, etc) without any problems, then I'll go with that, but if I have to go with the 2.5GHz (or i7) model, I want to make sure that the audio part will not be compromised.

dmccombs · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 07:34 pm »

Arthur,

Any of the 2011 mini's will sound very good. Since you are interested in Video, you may want to spring for the 2.5 model since it has a better graphics card. The CPU is a little faster, which never hurts, but that graphics card may better suit your needs.

Don't get me going on Lion though...

Darrell
www.mach2music.com

dB Cooper · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 09:22 pm »

I would buy either an original-form-factor mini, in case I actually wanted to play an audio CD or DVD, or a discontinued and/or refurbed previous gen mini at a reduced cost. There is no reason to buy the upscale mini unless the extra money is just burning a hole in your pocket.

Actually, although I am a Mac user, if I was looking to do a music server type setup, I would consider a mini tower type setup with a small linux OS, or a squeezebox. Why pay extra for functions I wouldn't be using in this setup (graphics cards etc)

arthur · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 10:49 pm »

I don't need an optical drive - I don't like the slot loading ones anyway.

Ok, since it seems like I need the graphics card in the 2.5 to properly display 1080p, and since the presence of the card does not seem to negatively affect sound quality, then I have my answer.

Thank you!

InfernoSTi · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 02:17 am »

Quote from: arthur on 27 Jul 2011, 06:18 pm

Thank you for your replies.

My main concern is choosing between the 2011 models. If the base model can play high def video (blue ray files, etc) without any problems, then I'll go with that, but if I have to go with the 2.5GHz (or i7) model, I want to make sure that the audio part will not be compromised.

I'm running a 2010 MBP with Decibel and while it is great, it doesn't allow me to comment on the new Mini except to make sure you know Blu Ray is not a natively supported format for Mac computers. Obviously there are work arounds, but they aren't "off the shelf" (Steve thinks Blu Ray is a bag of hurt or whatever he famously said).

Of course, if it were me, I'd go with the base model, buy 8 GB of Other World Computing RAM and a 60-120 GB SSD to run Lion, and run my music off a firewire HD. But that is just me....

John

drubin · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Aug 2011, 05:26 pm »

I'm also wrestling with this decision. I want to replace my 2008-era Mini (with audiophile external power supply), which has had reliability issues. I know that some people prefer the pre-2011 Minis, but I want to get a 2011, which I will run with Snow Leopard. I'll be using mine as a music server only, with a FW DAC and USB external storage, and will upgrade to 8 GB RAM and a small SSD.

Here's the question, though: Is there any reason to think that the 2011 Mac Mini config with the 2.5GHz i5 and AMD Radeon HD 6630M graphics would be sonically superior as a music server (probably by virtue of not having to share video RAM) to the base configuration, which is 2.3 GHz and graphics via the Intel HD Graphics 3000? The difference is only $200, some of which is for the RAM bump from 2GB to 4GB, which I won't use anyway, but $200 is $200.

konut · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Aug 2011, 05:35 pm »

Just a FYI, people are having trouble getting Snow Leopard to work on the '11 Minis.

http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29318

drubin · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Aug 2011, 05:47 pm »

Thanks for that, I didn't know. Sounds like more trouble than I want to take on. Since Lion apparently is bad news soundwise, I guess it's back to square one for me.

JohnR · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Aug 2011, 01:05 am »

I'd take the 2011 (heck, I did!). You can upgrade software later, faster processors will be more difficult... I mean, what are the people saying Lion doesn't do audio well going to be doing in five years time, still running 10.6 on their 6-year old computers?

JohnR · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Aug 2011, 01:18 am »

Quote from: drubin on 13 Aug 2011, 05:26 pm

Here's the question, though: Is there any reason to think that the 2011 Mac Mini config with the 2.5GHz i5 and AMD Radeon HD 6630M graphics would be sonically superior as a music server (probably by virtue of not having to share video RAM) to the base configuration, which is 2.3 GHz and graphics via the Intel HD Graphics 3000? The difference is only $200, some of which is for the RAM bump from 2GB to 4GB, which I won't use anyway, but $200 is $200.

If you're thinking about that, perhaps look at the i7 (quad core) model instead of the upgraded i5.

wgscott · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Aug 2011, 04:26 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 14 Aug 2011, 01:05 am

I mean, what are the people saying Lion doesn't do audio well going to be doing in five years time, still running 10.6 on their 6-year old computers?

Hopefully they will fix this with 10.7.1.

I was stunned. Enough so that I regressed to 10.6.8 on my 2010 mini. In >10 years of using OS X, I have never, ever, regressed on any computer.

JohnR · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Aug 2011, 06:36 am »

Are you using USB or optical?

wgscott · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Aug 2011, 02:15 pm »

I use a Halide Bridge (USB to coax) or a good optical cable.

It isn't the interface. I've had problems even with the internal speakers or with a headphone set plugged into the analogue out. This, on several computers. In addition, the 2010 mini runs about 10°C hotter with Lion. On my 2009 mini at work, for the first time, doing CPU-instensive work (such as compiling software) badly interrupts playback. (I need 10.7 more than I need music at work, so I kept that). I've never had that happen before with any version of OS X.

Also, they got rid of integer mode playback, which to me is a comparatively minor annoyance, but it is a step in the wrong direction.

drubin · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Aug 2011, 03:22 pm »

Wgscott, I hope these problems are being communicated to Apple, either by you or others. It's alarming to think that the new OS renders a recent Mac unable to play back music, which I don't think is all that taxing, and rub its stomach at the same time.

Would you say your problems with Lion and music server use are mainly about what one might call "performance" (interrupts, pops, clicks) or are you also experiencing sound quality degradation apart from performance issues?

wgscott · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Aug 2011, 04:28 pm »

Quote from: drubin on 14 Aug 2011, 03:22 pm

Wgscott, I hope these problems are being communicated to Apple, either by you or others. It's alarming to think that the new OS renders a recent Mac unable to play back music, which I don't think is all that taxing, and rub its stomach at the same time.

Would you say your problems with Lion and music server use are mainly about what one might call "performance" (interrupts, pops, clicks) or are you also experiencing sound quality degradation apart from performance issues?

The sound quality is slightly different, and many suggest it is improved. I don't have a huge problem with it, although some have suggested it is brighter and slightly harsher. My hearing/system/ear wax level makes most of the subtleties beyond my realm of appreciation.

For me, the main issues were playback dropouts, etc., running excessively hot (in my closed cabinet, this suddenly became an issue), occasional system freeze-ups. Although I hacked Front Row back into 10.7 so my kids could use it for movies and TVs, its absence was another minor annoyance. So after a week or so, I reverted.

I have a 2011 mini at work in a box I might bring home for a few days to test. Maybe 10.7 will work better on it. If so, I would like to get a 2011 mini with two internal SSDs and get rid of my external firewire drive.

The authors of Decibel and Audirvana have both communicated their concerns to Apple. Between that and all the other screaming, I don't think I have anything new to tell them.

JohnR · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Aug 2011, 10:32 am »

Well I dunno. I've set PM to try and use up as much CPU as possible - 12th order dithering on 2 LSB, upsampling to 96k - and the top of mine barely gets warm. The fan is on but it's quiet, I have to put my ear near to hear it. I didn't install a CPU temperature monitor... I'll leave that to you

I did get some dropouts a couple of days ago, and noticed a bunch of network activity, so I turned off the automatic updates on iTunes, PM, and System (had forgotten when about those when I got the machine). I don't think it's happened since. I do get some power glitches here too though. So it may well be that Lion doesn't handle realtime audio well if other things are going on. Fortunately this one is purchased to be (mostly) a dedicated audio machine. Pretty pleased so far

- will be interested to hear how you go with the 2011 mini and Lion.