SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show

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fritzspeakers

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #20 on: 20 Jul 2011, 04:19 pm »
Here's a shot of the mystery electronics "serving" up the music-


stillen

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #21 on: 20 Jul 2011, 07:02 pm »
these is a bevy of electronics rockin the house.

Charles Calkins

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #22 on: 20 Jul 2011, 07:27 pm »
What are those two things on top of the rack?

                                         Charlie

vintagebob

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #23 on: 20 Jul 2011, 08:24 pm »
What are those two things on top of the rack?

                                         Charlie

SalkStream Player

http://www.salkstream.com/index.htm

avahifi

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #24 on: 20 Jul 2011, 08:28 pm »
The top two things are, on the left, a big hard drive holding all the music, on the right a prototype of Jim Salk's music server playing all the music, controlled by an iPad.

It worked just fine except the OS in the server was not compatible with the software for the Kingrex UC192 we used to get from the USB out on the server into standard coax digital and into our DAC.  Thus we were limited to Redbook playback without having the ability to install the Kingrex drivers.

The sound quality in our California display room was so good that nobody noticed it was just Redbook.  :)

With my Mac computer the drivers are not necessary, and with Dean Barnell's PC, the drivers loaded just fine so we both can play back up to 192/24 through our computers into our DAC.

Regards,

Frank

drgn95

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #25 on: 21 Jul 2011, 12:35 am »
It was a good show , my first. It was a pleasure meeting Jim and listening to the SS's. I've the ST's and center and couldn't be happier. I must say there were more expensive equipment at the show that didn't even come close to Salk Sound.

JerryM

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #26 on: 21 Jul 2011, 02:59 am »
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but Fritz has his own line of speakers yet he was nice enough to post the pictures here. Cosmically good manners, thanks Fritz.

Yep, Fritz is a class act. Definitely one of the good guys. :thumb:


catastrofe

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #27 on: 21 Jul 2011, 03:14 am »
What brand of rack is that?

jsalk

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #28 on: 21 Jul 2011, 04:11 am »
Just a quick note to clarify things... 

Our StreamPlayer is compatible with any USB DAC or device at bit rates up to 24/96.  Above that bit rate, it is compatible with all USB Class 2 Audio devices which are designed to play higher bit rates.  No proprietary device drivers are required for these devices.

Devices such as the Kingrex UC192 and many USB DACs do not meet USB Class 2 audio standards.  These devices require proprietary drivers to play files above 24/96.  According to their web site, "KingRex supports proprietary drivers for Windows & Mac." 

USB audio class 2 was developed in order to address the limitations of the USB standard where the transfer requirements for high resolution audio files are concerned.  Devices complying with this new standard do not require special proprietary drivers in order to perform at their maximum rated speed, regardless of the operating system involved.

- Jim

jsalk

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #29 on: 21 Jul 2011, 04:13 am »
What brand of rack is that?

We built that rack expressly for use at this show.  So I guess you could say it is a SalkRack.

- Jim

jtwrace

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #30 on: 21 Jul 2011, 11:08 am »
We built that rack expressly for use at this show.  So I guess you could say it is a SalkRack.

- Jim

Well, sounds like you just entered the rack business.

stream-it

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #31 on: 21 Jul 2011, 12:30 pm »
The streamer appears to be based on Vortexbox. Steriophile is stating that the streamer will be $1295. The Vortexbox appliance is sold on Small Green Computer http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/ for only $389 and it has a 1tb HDD and drive for ripping. That is a $900 delta in cost and a one box solution.   

The player appears to be based on the alix project shown here: http://cheap-silent-usb-linux-music-server.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-03-01T00%3A00%3A00%2B01%3A00&updated-max=2009-04-01T00%3A00%3A00%2B02%3A00&max-results=4
You can also buy the Aurality players http://www.auraliti.com/ Both are under $799. and you can attach a usb drive direct for playback. Notice the graph on the Auraliti site that shows an ssd is not that quiet!

jsalk

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #32 on: 21 Jul 2011, 01:24 pm »
stream-it -

The StreamPlayer is not based on Vortexbox.  It does not use an SSD or spinning hard drive. The closest comparable device is the Bryston BDP1 ($2195), but the StreamPlayer is even more minimalistic. Instead of adding things like an HHD (noise) and a drive for ripping (noise), we have eliminated everything not absolutely essential to the task.  Our goal was to produce the cleanest possible digital source and avoid any and all hardware and software "features" that would interfere with that goal.

There are many "all in one" products on the market with features like those you mention.  Any low cost computer contains them as well.  But those features and others were not consistent with our design goals for this project (to produce the most pristine digital music source possible).  Those desiring additional features should look to alternative devices.

- Jim     
« Last Edit: 21 Jul 2011, 02:53 pm by jsalk »

srb

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #33 on: 21 Jul 2011, 01:45 pm »
The closest comparable device is the Bryston BDP1 ($2700)

Doesn't change the value of the StreamPlayer at $1295, but the Bryston BDP-1 is $2195.
 
Steve

stream-it

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #34 on: 21 Jul 2011, 02:53 pm »
Seems you need more information

1. The stream server appears to be based on Vortexbox. This picture sums things up:
http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=42106

2. The stream player appears to be based on the Alix project.
Here is a pic taken from a CA post of the pair. The left unit is the stream player:
http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0720/100px/horizontal/IMG_2318.jpg

Here is the alix board:
http://pcengines.ch/pic/alix2d2.jpg

Same board! The alix board uses a CF flash drive. You said it does not use an ssd or hdd. You should know that a CF flash drive is an ssd.

3. You need to do some research before you say things. The Bryson http://bryston.com/pdfs/09/Bryston_BDP1_LITERATURE.pdf is a one box solution also based on an alix board. That is where the similarities end. It has a remote control, custom linear power supply, 24/192 aes/ebu and spdif ouput, usb, lcd track display, control buttons on the face. IMO it's not close or comparable. BTW it says Auraliti at the bottom.

4. Ripping noise both acoustic and eletrical are a mute point when it's not ripping.

5. According to your definition of what is good. Vortexbox streaming over the network to a $299 Logitech Touch http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/5745
would provide spdif and analog output.

jsalk

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #35 on: 21 Jul 2011, 03:01 pm »

Doesn't change the value of the StreamPlayer at $1295, but the Bryston BDP-1 is $2195.
 
Steve

Steve -

Thanks for pointing that out.

- Jim

jsalk

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #36 on: 21 Jul 2011, 03:55 pm »
stream-it -

Seems you need more information

I think I have all the information I need, thanks.  I don't really have the time to get into an extended debate on this topic.  But if you feel other products better fit your needs, buy them.  That is the beautiful thing about the vast array of products available in this area.  You can choose the product that best fits your needs and philosophy.  If the StreamPlayer is not it, so be it.

I have used many of the products on the market today and found that none of them were exactly what I was looking for personally.  So I built a device for myself.  If no one purchases it, that is fine with me.  I have the unit I wanted and that is what is important to me personally.  But perhaps others would be looking for exactly what I was looking for.  Time will tell.

Quote
1. The stream server appears to be based on Vortexbox. This picture sums things up:
http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=42106

The StreamServer prototype is currently running on Vortexbox.  No decision has been made as to what linux distro will be used in the final production version.  We are currently concentrating our focus on the StreamPlayer (which does not use Vortexbox) and will make our final decision about the StreamServer distro at a later date.

Quote
2. The stream player appears to be based on the Alix project.
Here is a pic taken from a CA post of the pair. The left unit is the stream player:
http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/0720/100px/horizontal/IMG_2318.jpg

Here is the alix board:
http://pcengines.ch/pic/alix2d2.jpg

Same board!

Yes, this is one of only a few boards available that met our needs and is probably the board we will use in production.

Quote
The alix board uses a CF flash drive. You said it does not use an ssd or hdd. You should know that a CF flash drive is an ssd.

I guess you could say that.  No problem.

Quote
3. You need to do some research before you say things. The Bryson http://bryston.com/pdfs/09/Bryston_BDP1_LITERATURE.pdf is a one box solution also based on an alix board. That is where the similarities end. It has a remote control,

Not needed.  The iPad app I use for remote control, for example, is far superior to any dedicated remote control.

Quote
custom linear power supply,

We are working on an optional lithium ion battery pack which will be even cleaner. The power requirements of the StreamPlayer are so low, this is a very viable option and probably the best.

Quote
24/192 aes/ebu and spdif ouput,

The added complexity is not needed for my application.  But if you need it, buy it.

[/quote]lcd track display[/quote]

Switching device, not needed.

Quote
control buttons on the face.

Not needed.

Quote
IMO it's not close or comparable.

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it.  No problem. Mine just happens to be different.

Quote
BTW it says Auraliti at the bottom.

They helped design it.

Quote
4. Ripping noise both acoustic and eletrical are a mute point when it's not ripping.

This is an interesting comment.  The first question I was asked when we began this project is what software was used for ripping.  As I thought about this, I realized that the ripping software I use (dbPoweramp) is the gold standard where ripping accuracy is concerned and it is not available for the linux platform.  Since I use the optical drive on my computer to rip directly to my music server, there is really no need for a drive in the server itself.  It only serves to increase the power supply demands on the server.  Using the optical drive on any of my computers results in the most accurate ripping possible.  So why would I want a ripping drive on my music server?  It is simply not necessary.  You might go so far as to say it is undesirable for a number of reasons.

Quote
5. According to your definition of what is good. Vortexbox streaming over the network to a $299 Logitech Touch http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/5745
would provide spdif and analog output.

I have used both vortexbox and the Logitech Touch for a few years now.  It is a good combination and will serve the needs of many users quite well.  But there are levels of software and hardware not required for the basic function involved and they only serve to increase system complexity, increase power requirements and increase noise.

As I understand your comments (hopefully I am reading them correctly), you seem to feel that more features equate to a better product.  I have no problem with that, but it is the opposite of the "less is more" philosophy that guided us in this endeavor.  If you truly feel that way, it is certainly OK.  I would never criticize your point of view and it is certainly as valid as mine.  Fortunately, there are plenty of other products on the market that will better fit your philosophy. The beauty of this industry is that we have almost unlimited choices and you can select the product that is perfect for you.

- Jim 

stream-it

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Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #37 on: 21 Jul 2011, 05:22 pm »
The Bryston example is only because you compared your unit to it. That is really not fair to Bryston! Also, the Auraliti and the Bryston can use the app you use so that is a mute point as well.

How can you say less is more? Your solution is more of everything! It's two cases, two power supplies, two mother boards, two ram modules (one embedded), two different operating systems, two drives (one ssd and one hdd), two etherent connections, web interface, router and one usb connection.

The player is simple, but you didn't invert it and the Alix project dates back to May 2008.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/326831/my-new-3-watt-dead-silent-usb-linux-music-server-pics-added

rlee8394

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #38 on: 21 Jul 2011, 05:56 pm »
Jim,

Have you seen the KMPD2e at the Voyage store for $136.00? Comes preloaded with Voyage MPD 0.75, 4GB CF, and enclosure.

http://store.voyage.hk/

Photos and details here:
http://store.voyage.hk/KMPD2e.php

Maybe these guys can also supply you with units to your specifications.

For what it's worth, I also use Vortexbox as a media server. Vortexbox also has the same MPD player, and I've installed the MPaD app on my iPad2 as well as Theremin on my iMac to control playback from the Vortexbox to my AVA Insight + DAC. Those apps works great! Very staisfying results if you use Vortexbox and have an S/PDIF output.

Ron


adydula

Re: SoundScapes & AVA at CA AUDIO Show
« Reply #39 on: 21 Jul 2011, 07:09 pm »
Think something is getting lost here....

Having a device, I dont care who makes it or who invented it...that basically does only one thing as best the OS and BIOS etc allow it to do I think is the prime factor in the design Jim is playing around with.

Not having Window 7 etc running 60 or so services in the background, antivirus and all the other crap that is on a "normal' pc or even a non-intel based box or non intel OS...whatever combination....

Just having the simplest hardware that all it does is send the bits to your dac etc...being able to handle all the normal and high res stuff...

Yes you are using other higher end pcs or systems to rip, transfer, but this doesnt take away from what the player is doing in its fundamental mode of opertation that being a player....no more  or no "Less"...

I like the idea of having a dedicated device, that can allow all the other stuff to easliy access it for programming, updates, adding files etc...no usb to spidf, coax etc...no preamp..just the bit perfect source to a DAC, to the amp and out...and if it runs on batteries no AC interference stuff, no need for all that AC filtering and mega buck line conditioners and power cables that are 2 inches in diameter...

Keep it simple and pure when its playing..

If you dont want that second box you coud cram the drive in one box, but then that takes away from the design Jim is looking at..

I guess its possible to use a external use drive of sorts..but hey that still 2 boxes..

Maybe SSD's will come down in price so you could have a SSD large enough for storage that would fit in one box.

I have used a small form factor laptop ssd drive in an external USB adapter with my Sqeezebox touch and it worked ok....but the CPU horsepower in it accessing 100gb of data was at times....shall we say sluggish...and try to view that touch small screen from across the room!!!

All the best!
Alex
 :D