decware vs. nightshade pre-amp

firedog · « **on:** 10 Jul 2011, 07:41 am »

Decware Zen Triode MODEL CSP2
Nightshade Beacon 2

Anyone compared these? From site descriptions seem to be quite similar.

Decware comes with 2 inputs and tube rectification for $900.
Nigthshade for same setup is $1150. But Nightshade has more "options" available, including adding a third input.

I'm a tube newbie. Will be adding the tube preamp I buy as a pre for solid state power amp. Haven't owned any tube equipment before. The price difference is less important to me, more important is SQ, followed by reliability/longevity. I want something that just works, and that I don't have to mess around with.

rajesh · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 09:30 am »

I happened to visit Decware website few days back and their Torii Tube amp was costing $2495.

firedog · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 10:11 am »

Yes, but I asked about a specific model. And $895 is the price, without add-ons.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP2.html

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 11:40 am »

Both are American cottage sourced, hand built, direct wired, simple tube circuits that go for speed, clarity, resolution, depth, and transparency with conservative triode designs.

Decware has been around longer and is a bit more than a one guy operation. Deckert provides a lifetime warrantee and his stuff is based on very inexpensive tubes. I've heard his stuff a number of times (not sure I've ever heard the CSP2), but Deckert's sonic goal is solid state done right (not euphoric tube bloat). Note that the expensive 6SN7 tubes used in the Beacon Two can be overly lush for some (a full dose of tubiness).

The Decware CSP2 might compare closer to the Nightshade Beacon One in terms of sound, but the CSP2 has the headphone amp and tube rectification.

However as a self taught electronics guy Deckert's understanding of circuit theory has been called into question more than once. He proudly takes the audio path less travelled and is very devoted to tubes. Lamphear has "come out of nowhere" onto the audio scene but is adept to and embraces a variety of electronics.

rollo · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 12:48 pm »

Have not hear a Decware Pre, so no opinion. However the Beacon graced my home while on tour. It was not a lush, rich or dark sound. Actually I was surprised as to the lifelike presentation and neutrality. Using a Sylvania 6SN7 changed everything as opposed to the RCA 6SN7 provided. Da tube made a huge difference in overall character. Dynamics and PRESENCE up the ying yang. Clarity slam and killer bass.
It was a tough decision as to which preamp was staying. My custom Loesch & Wiesner with General Radio dual tubed power supplies. It was that close, but in the end the Loesch stayed. The Loesch phonostage is world class the Beacon no phono. That was the deciding factor for me.
Now that i have learned it is possible to convert my Pre to a dedicated phonostage the Beacon is at the top of my list. Tubed rectification and a more robust power supply is all I would alter. If one likes a more neutral presentation the SS rectification is better suited for that.
A home demo will tell all. Opinions are good but a home demo rules every time.

charles

firedog · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 01:45 pm »

Guys - Thanks for that. Your information was useful.

My system is presently all digital/solid state. I think it sounds quite good on good recordings (not at all "digital", more like precise analogue). But there are lots of bad recordings/badly done digital remasters of older music that I listen to and on many of them the sound is a bit harsher than I'd like. My limited experience tells me that I'd like the sound of a tube pre added to my system.

Unfortunately, I'm not in the States, so home demo of these units isn't really an option. And the dealers where I live don't do them....Local custom. Plus a lot of dealers here don't stock high end (expensive) items at all. They have demo units for in store auditions and only order additional items when they make a sale.

One of the reasons I'm interested in these preamps is that they seem to be very good values/performance for the price. Even with customs and shipping they will be significantly less expensive than the kind of tube gear I have access to here (e.g. EAR, Cary) at local prices - from a third to 50% more than MSRP in the States for most audio items.

doorman · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 02:15 pm »

If you can DIY at all, look no further than http://www.transcendentsound.com
Their Grounded Grid pre is a superior pre, and well under your budget.
That said, I know the Decware is a fine pre too. I've not heard the Beacon.
Happy hunting
don

JoshK · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 02:27 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 10 Jul 2011, 11:40 am

However as a self taught electronics guy Deckert's understanding of circuit theory has been called into question more than once. He proudly takes the audio path less travelled and is very devoted to tubes.

Not to harp on it, but I read a thread on diyaudio where one of his preamp's circuits was analyzed. Unfortunately, the tube was operating in such a non-linear portion of the curve that only high distortion euphoric sound could result. It was also such low current it would have much drive for cables and amp inputs.

I am not sure if all his designs are similar to this, but I'd want to hear it myself before choosing this preamp.

dangerbird · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 02:40 pm »

while I have not compared the two,I had the Beacon II in my home during the demo tour,,+1 on the Sylvania's,,I rolled a pair in it and experienced a very pleasant surprise too--IMO,,the Beacon is a keeper,,especially for the price.Good luck.

rollo · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 10 Jul 2011, 02:27 pm

Not to harp on it, but I read a thread on diyaudio where one of his preamp's circuits was analyzed. Unfortunately, the tube was operating in such a non-linear portion of the curve that only high distortion euphoric sound could result. It was also such low current it would have much drive for cables and amp inputs.

I am not sure if all his designs are similar to this, but I'd want to hear it myself before choosing this preamp.

Maybe the DIY guys need a refresher course. I heard no such thing in my system or any other it was put into.

charles

Gopher · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 08:45 pm »

Interesting thread. I'm the owner of a decware amplifier, and a local friend with a good ear insists I need to try a niteshade before running further with it. I hear enough potential in the torii that I'm not really interested in trying other amps right now, but this friend knows my system and tastes so I'll soon be comparing the companies in question myself, though for amps rather than pres.

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Jul 2011, 11:40 pm »

Another good tube pre-amp option in this price range is Mapletree 2A SE at $760.

JoshK · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 12:21 am »

Quote from: rollo on 10 Jul 2011, 02:43 pm

Maybe the DIY guys need a refresher course. I heard no such thing in my system or any other it was put into.

charles

Well there is subjective and objective. But no refresher is needed for the later, the op point was most definitely in the knee, the tube's most unlinear portion of its operating point. whether that produces a pleasing sound is anotther story.

Josh

gooberdude · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 12:46 am »

I owned a little Zen amp of Deckerts a few yrs ago, and it was awesome. At the time i needed more power for the hawthorne Sterlings & sent it back.

A few months back i ordered a Beacon preamp from Niteshade and am anxiously awaiting delivery. I've heard a Beacon II on several occasions and liked it so much i ordered one.

That said, i might be going active soon & need a flea watt tube amp for the Radian tweeters...and probably buying a Zen (again). It was dead silent & had great tone.

Rclark · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Aug 2011, 04:31 am »

Quote from: doorman on 10 Jul 2011, 02:15 pm

If you can DIY at all, look no further than http://www.transcendentsound.com
Their Grounded Grid pre is a superior pre, and well under your budget.
That said, I know the Decware is a fine pre too. I've not heard the Beacon.
Happy hunting
don

wow, very very reasonable prices there, and they have a neat looking power conditioner as well. Any links to owner reviews of their preamps? Or even professional reviews?

bunky · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Aug 2011, 01:09 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 6 Aug 2011, 04:31 am

wow, very very reasonable prices there, and they have a neat looking power conditioner as well. Any links to owner reviews of their preamps? Or even professional reviews?

Richidoo built one so you may want to contact him for his impressions of the Grounded Grid.

doorman · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Aug 2011, 03:16 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 6 Aug 2011, 04:31 am

wow, very very reasonable prices there, and they have a neat looking power conditioner as well. Any links to owner reviews of their preamps? Or even professional reviews?

Go back into the Stereophile archives. The GG was compared to some very high dollar equipment, and came off---!
best,
don

Rclark · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Aug 2011, 08:54 pm »

If you had to choose would you go that route or a Dodd buffer?

sturgus · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Aug 2011, 03:02 am »

While I have not heard the Decware I have heard Niteshade and thought it was rather nice sounding pre. It was in a system using a big Karoto SS amp and custom made speakers. it was a very nice sounding rig. The pre was very natural sounding with a hint of warmth. All around a very sweet sounding unit. To add some more flavor to your search you might want to look at this Preamp also. It is a tube lovers dream.

http://www.musicalconcepts.com/MC_Cham.html

I have an early prototype and a friend has an updated version. This is a very nice sounding unit that can grow as your system grows. I may be a little biased because John Hillig has worked some of my gear in the past and done an excellent job. Well worth looking at
Sturgus

Rclark · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Aug 2011, 06:10 am »

Thanks for that recommendation!