[roscoeiii]

But to the engineers at DIYaudio, the LDR is anything but a transparent device. Even with a perfect level controlling adjustable power supply, the LDR is an inherently high distortion device.

Yes, it was this high distortion that made posters at DIYaudio suggest that the LDR was not a good match IIRC.

Good luck wading into that huge thread Ray. I believe that one of the posts there links to some of the LDR distortion measurements. But I just don't have the time to go searching for it right now.

[medium jim]

Are there not always early adopters for anything and are they always wrong? The only reason I see to be skeptical about these Ncores is if you have a spent a lot of money on amps, especially recently. Because now you are permanently locked in. They might say skepticism, I would say denial.

 Clearly, if you've read what's available so far, including that thread, and the now several credible user reports, it is not hard to draw the conclusion that these are what they are.

 I honestly feel very bad for people with very expensive amps, and for whom money is a critical issue, because as word continues to get out about these, and it is reasonable to assume that reviews will continue to be in the same vein, those people will not be able to re-sell their old amps for anything close to what they think they should get. Give it six months.

 It's pretty painless for me, I'm moving up from a Virtue Two. But certain others commenting here, sure, they're skeptical as hell. I'm skeptical as to whether they realize it's very likely possible their $10,000 amps just became a $1000 amps, or less, overnight.

 There is the diy aspect to it, and that is probably somewhat a saving grace.... For the time being at least.

Wow, a lot of hate in what you just said.  I will never feel sorry for anyone who has paid for stereo gear that has transformed their music into a true experience.  The world is not going to stop even if the Ncore lives up to any of its own self hype.  More to the point, there will not be a depreciation of high end gear as we know it. 

History is history and the same was said about transistor technology over-passing true analog (vacuum tube) technology, yet some of the most revered and expensive amps are still true analog. 

Class D will find its way into the main stream and will be a viable product and will augment what is already established and rooted.

What I get a chuckle about is that the biggest proponent is someone who hasn't even heard the Ncore in person, let alone ordered a pair to build. 

Finally, it is not about denial or skepticism, but rather being rational and seeing if the self promotion bears fruit or not

Jim

[James Romeyn]

I decided to purchase two new stereo Quad Premiere Elite QSP (released early 2012, upgrade/refinement of model "909" current dumping power amp produced 99 to 2011).  I encountered a particular roadblock to the purchase. 

Return to update the decades-old short list of preferred amps. 

Amongst the best I heard were Dan Wright's ModWright KSA150SE (estimate $6500...I hoped to discover the lower powered 100W was similarly refined ), and Aesthetix hybrid, about $12k.  I'd need two stereo amps.  No way I could afford either of these particular amps.         

With a few short days after the QSP did not pan out I discovered the Ncore amps did not need a transformer, which I earlier thought to be the case, and also the user comments finally appeared.

Boy am I glad the QSP did not pan out!

If Ncore appears before 16 April I will A-B with two highly regarded 60 lb SS USA-made mono blocks, $7500/pr, current model arrived 2011.  I'm really looking forward that that.       

[Phil]

Class D will find its way into the main stream and will be a viable product and will augment what is already established and rooted.

Jim

This makes sense to me.  Personally, I also like the visual look of a component and always get interested in beautiful gear that is said to sound great. 

Perhaps it comes down to pride of ownership.  That pride can come from price/performance ratio, or looks, or price -- high or low -- (or all of these).  Isn't enjoying the hobby the important part and aren't we all going to do so by different means?

That said, I also cheer for any component that can re-define a category.  Having read about KEF's blade, I wonder if that product will do so for speakers.  And perhaps the Ncore will for amps.  Who knows?   At any rate, let's hope there continues to be experimenting in the hope of besting the best and that there are lots of alternatives to keep folks happy and the industry healthy.

Phil 

[srb]

I hope it works out to be a great sounding amplifier.  I must say I wouldn't mind having a more efficient amplfier that would not only contribute to a greener planet, but would also greatly reduce my own monetary investment into the 400W - 500W power consumption AT IDLE of a typical high-performance, high-power pair of Class A/B monoblocks.

Steve

[Rclark]

Jim, there's no "hate", just my thoughts. If the Ncore matches and beats top of the line, nobody in their right mind will pay huge dollars for an amp. Common sense. The Diy situation currently is just stalling the inevitable, but this is the beginning of a downward trend in amps. There are already people who have sold their amps quick, nice amps, because of these.

[James Romeyn]

I heard the Blade in a great demo, and talked with someone at KEF about a forthcoming review.  The Blade is absolutely a game changer.  It loads the room with a unique and highly pleasurable wavefront.  Speakers like Magico's latest Q9, Wilson's latest, and Vandersteen's 5A Carbon are very nice in many ways, but all starkly omit the Blade's unique and gorgeous wavefront/radiation/room-loading qualities.

IMO room loading performance is the last frontier in loudspeaker advancement.  Well, maybe miniaturization, after room loading.   

What is the reaction in a store if you enter to compare two Ncore monos (1 lb each, both under one arm as you skip in whistling, AC cords taking up equal or more space vs. the amps) to two 125 lb ea McIntosh auto-transformer-equipped mono blocks?

Not everyone wants to assemble their own DIY Ncore amp.  I wonder what are legal liabilities for a store that buys and assembles DIY Ncore for sale?  $3k for two state of the art mono blocks seems like a reasonable price.  Maybe a couple hours of assembly total.  IIRC two of Dusty's CI Audio 200W pre-Ncore Hypex based monos are about $4k.       
   

[lowtech]

Not everyone wants to assemble their own DIY Ncore amp.  I wonder what are legal liabilities for a store that buys and assembles DIY Ncore for sale?  $3k for two state of the art mono blocks seems like a reasonable price.  Maybe a couple hours of assembly total.  IIRC two of Dusty's CI Audio 200W pre-Ncore Hypex based monos are about $4k.       
 

Maybe Kevin Haskins can answer your question?

[Phil]

   
Not everyone wants to assemble their own DIY Ncore amp.  I wonder what are legal liabilities for a store that buys and assembles DIY Ncore for sale? 
 

This is an interesting question given the Hypex strategy of DIY for the lower (not low) power amp.  Seems that a skilled DIYer could go into business selling completed amps.  Or will one of the smaller manufactures known for amps/preamps try adding their own magic sauce to the amp and sell at a slightly higher price.  Could be interesting.

If the Ncore is indeed a disruptive technology, the DIY approach is no less so.

The low energy use, lightness and smallness will appeal widely, IMHO.

Phil

[roscoeiii]

Hypex is getting around this by not selling in quantity. There is a limit to the number that can be ordered I believe.

[Rclark]

I was going to suggest some intrepid hobbyist could probably make some money turning out completed nc400's.

[doug s.]

...If the Ncore matches and beats top of the line, nobody in their right mind will pay huge dollars for an amp. Common sense...

nobody in their right mind, except us audiophiles.  same as it ever was.   

doug s.

[Rclark]

Oh, right, the 'phools 

[*Scotty*]

Even if these new Ncore amps were perfect they would not be appropriate for everyones system for the simple reason that virtually everyone has a combination of non-linear components. The hoped for final result involves a series of haphazard zigs and zags that ends in a system one is satisfied in listening to.
 If the amp IS closer to a straight wire with gain some people with a more linear combination of gear may find it a big improvement over what they are currently using. For other people it will reveal everything that is wrong with their up stream components.
 Non-linear amplifiers will never go out of style because the rest of the chain up-stream from them will always contain a mix components with their own set of problems that need to be compensated for in some way.
Scotty

[Tyson]

If they sound as good as they are claimed too, they would be a cool solution for fully active speakers.  You could bolt them to a miniDSP, mount them in the speakers, and have one channel drive the tweeter, the other one the midrange, then just drop a pair of servo subs in there for the bass and you are set!

[Rclark]

@ Scotty:

For me, I understand that these will be far better than the rest of my gear, barring the Octocoupler. Bearing that in mind, I have no problem building my system around them. I think this is the kind of hardware that forces you to look at the rest of your system as has been shown by some user reports.

I like Bruno's philosophy about systems and the whole system merry go round. Says people often buy gear according to a pleasant "sound" they impart to the music. Then they get bored and begin seeking to improve that pleasantness with new gear. With a truly transparent system you can't get bored. At that point you are listening to the music and not your hodgepodge of tweaks.

Paraphrasing. But I dig it.

[medium jim]

Someone is still green behind the ears.  But weren't we all at some point!

Jim

[James Romeyn]

Even if these new Ncore amps were perfect they would not be appropriate for everyones system for the simple reason that virtually everyone has a combination of non-linear components. The hoped for final result involves a series of haphazard zigs and zags that ends in a system one is satisfied in listening to.
 If the amp IS closer to a straight wire with gain some people with a more linear combination of gear may find it a big improvement over what they are currently using. For other people it will reveal everything that is wrong with their up stream components.
 Non-linear amplifiers will never go out of style because the rest of the chain up-stream from them will always contain a mix components with their own set of problems that need to be compensated for in some way.
Scotty

AKA Linn founder Ivor Tiefenbrun's so-called "Audio Hierarchy."  For instance, with Linn's LP12 TT, the user was warned of the necessity to install the best arm before installing the best cartridge.  Similarly, Naim recommended the user must employ the best preamp and best PS upgrade before upgrading to the best power amp.   

It's indeed thoroughly illogical to consider amps like Ncore without premium gear upstream. 

Then there's always the software quality.  Music not well-recorded and/or recorded on inferior equipment is "listenable" on my system, but does not satisfy like music well recorded on superb equipment.  Not much you can do about that.     

[Rclark]

And some of us are hopelessly fossilized 

[OzarkTom]

Someone is still green behind the ears.  But weren't we all at some point!

Jim

+1