[fredgarvin]

I know I had given up on Class D, until I brought in that TBI Millenia integrated amp. I never thought Class D could sound so detailed, yet so natural sounding.

A Hypex is now a must on my list.

With what  dc power supply?

[Russell Dawkins]

I'm leaning toward one 3-ch box for Trinaural music system. 

It'll be interesting to find out how audible that Trinaural Processor circuitry will be through the extra clarity of the Ncore amps, and whether that will work against the other advantages.

[OzarkTom]

With what  dc power supply?

Even with the AC the sound is great, but DC just supercharges it that much more. This is the review I based my purchase on, and the reviewer never hooked a battery up to it. If he had, he would have been shocked.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/3_mini_amps_e.html

[Rclark]

Tom I think they're saying batteries are pretty much a no go here.

I'm guessing in this situation there would be no improvement. It's tempting to think of these as every other class d amp, but looks like the SMPS is the way to go. I mean, it was designed just for this special amp.

 I mean, they're already using the word "flawless" to describe these, right?
 
From what I'm seeing on DIY there's no real way to "improve" these yet as they just came out. I have a feeling that as they are, different PS's might be a waste of time. Just a guess, no idea.

 Wait till you get a set up and running. Definitely exciting stuff though 

[Russell Dawkins]

Lastly, just to put the information in one place a few words about my system. My speakers are Geddes Abbeys a two way, controlled directivity monitor with 12” compression driver loaded waveguide with foam insert and 12” pro woofer. They are 95 db efficient, have extremely flat polar response and are super dynamic. My source is a Metric Halo LIO8 DAC/PRE fed via FireWire from a Mac Mini both powered by custom linear power supplies fed from a PurePower 2000 battery-based regenerator.

It must be reassuring in some fundamental way to know that each of the basic elements of this system - the Metric Halo converter, the amps and the speakers - is based on solid engineering, not hyperbole, and the work of a gifted designer who is ready to answer questions online. Still you have the satisfaction of being near the cutting edge.

[James Romeyn]

It'll be interesting to find out how audible that Trinaural Processor circuitry will be through the extra clarity of the Ncore amps, and whether that will work against the other advantages.

Good point!  I'll compare stereo direct vs. stereo through Trinaural on the Naksa 100 amp tonight, just to know.  But the following might be demonstrative of the Trinaural's value, regardless. 

Stereo Naksa 100 vs. stereo YBA amp: pointless to list specifics...Naksa infinitely better, like an entirely different system, better throughout the range but the higher up the register the bigger the improvement, estimate treble is more than 100% improved.  On the YBA cymbals sound more like FM radio inter-station hash than metal percussion instruments.  Naksa 100: pure black between and with the notes.  YBA all kinds of noise between and with the notes.   

Stereo Naksa 100 vs. Trinaural YBA amp: compared to Trinaural, Naksa stereo center image sounds like what it is, a ghost or phantom artifact from two speakers somewhere else.  Trinaural stage and image quality infinitely better, not close.  I'd be shocked if anyone would prefer the stereo Naksa 100. 

You can see why I want 3x Ncore! 
   

[Rclark]

From the DIY thread:

User discussing low power applications : "If you need only 5-10 watts max output, you should minimize noise with something like a tiny class A circuit with ultra-clean power supplies: maybe something in Nelson Pass's quiver (Aleph?). Really good amps like that are pretty rare, excluding tube amps which are generally sweet with distortion. IMHO, ultra-high-efficiency speakers sacrifice accuracy for color, but I shouldn't start a war here":


 Bruno -

"I should add that also at these low powers Ncore has way lower distortion than esoteric circuits purportedly invented specifically to have good low-power behaviour. When some designers (I saw a name flash by just now) claim their amp is "best below 1W" this simply means their amp gets steadily worse above 1W, not that below 1W it does better than any other amp. Of course they want you to think they're saying the latter. This is called the "bait and switch" fallacy. Don't fall for it.   "

 user: "I retract my Pass-ing fancy!  "

[OzarkTom]

From what I'm seeing on DIY there's no real way to "improve" these yet as they just came out. I have a feeling that as they are, different PS's might be a waste of time. Just a guess, no idea.

 Wait till you get a set up and running.

If this Hypex amp does not sound better on batteries, that will be a first. AC coming in your house is horrible, especially during the summer when everyone is running their air, especially during the winter running their heaters.

Do this experiment, rclark. Leaving your system on for 24 hours, then listen to a special song at 5pm, 6pm, 7pm, and so on until 1 or 2am some night. Now only play that one song, and only play it once per hour. I bet by 10 or 11pm, you will notice an improvement, and by 2am, it will sound even more incredible. I don't care what amp you are playing, the AC coming into your house improves as everyone else in town goes to bed.

With batteries, you do not have that problem.

I know, I am a little crazy for doing these tests. Just make sure you don't wake up your neighbors.

[Rclark]

 Oh I know! With my Virtue I've got a nice 30v supply, and a big Astron LS-10A linear supply, and the batteries beat them both up.

 But I'm guessing that this is different. Look at what is reported already, and it is on AC supply. Either way, I think they're saying batteries are not possible at this time. But again, I'm guessing it doesn't matter, here you have an amp that is making people sell their infinitely more expensive, top of the line class A models.

 It appears that the PS/amp combo are not having SQ issues of any sort, quite the opposite.

Budget SOTA is simply now... SOTA.

[OzarkTom]

I keep reading, but how many audiophiles have ever even experienced the effects of batteries on amps? I would estimate less than 10%.

[Rclark]

I'll put it a step further and postulate that my amp on batts, or anything you own on batts would probably get its clock cleaned ...thoroughly... by these Ncores with the Ncore SMPS from what we have to go by so far.

 But again, either way, it's a fruitless conversation as the Ncore will not take batteries without apparently some great effort.


 ... I think my avatar is subliminally messing with you Tom (AC/DC .. lol) and maybe I should choose another.

[Phil]

earflappin and others:

are your Ncore amps plugged straight into the wall?  I'm curious about the effect of power conditioners and whether they are needed for best sound.

Thanks.
Phil

[James Romeyn]

I very much like Audience's products.  Professional reviewers universally rate their AC conditioners as the best or among the best.  Their most costly unit is.......$10k msrp!  Yikes! 

I intend to run the speaker wire from the amp module inside the chassis, through a hole (with rubber insulator grommet) next to the binding post.  The binding post is used as an electro-mechancal junction for the internal speaker wire (tinned) and the speaker wire. 

IMO the audible performance equals that resulting from the best, most costly binding posts, such as WBT, which IIRC run about $75/pair.   

[doug s.]

jim, why are you wanting to put three channels in one chassis?  w/mono blocks, you can put the amps closer to the speakers and have shorter runs of speaker cable.

doug

[OzarkTom]

Tom, no apologies required....    I have been in this hobby/obsession for about the same time and it is good to be skeptical...      Lots of over hyped products with few living up to their claims. 

I am posting my review from another forum at your request.  All I can say is it well worthy of an audition in your own system IMHO.  In terms of pictures I don't have mine in a chassis yet so there isn't much to look at, but I will try to post something nonetheless.  In fact, these things are ridiculously small.  The SMSP600 and two NC400's fit on an iPad...

Just curious earflappiin, how detailed are the vocals that you are getting
 with the Ncores?

[TomS]

Here ya go boys. They are indeed tiny little things 

[James Romeyn]

jim, why are you wanting to put three channels in one chassis?  w/mono blocks, you can put the amps closer to the speakers and have shorter runs of speaker cable.

doug

With the Trinaural, I agreed with Bongiorno that the center channel was more critical than the L/R, which act like ambiance effects.  And the 3-ch amp can site right next to the center channel, same as a mono block.

I was also obsessed with conserving space, what with three speaker channels, each channel has two monitors in a Floyd Toole ambiance array, plus four subs, sub amp, etc.   

But a couple days ago I plugged in the Naksa 100 for L/R channels, using only one channel of the YBA for center.  Wow!  Huge improvement vs. YBA all 3-ch.  (Strangely, YBA on the L/R and Naksa 100 on the center had some weird phase effect and was unlistenable.)

So the above experiment seems to prove that even if the L/R are less critical than the center, better performance is better performance.  Plus the shame you've heaped on me now!   

Tomorrow I'll make a 11' interconnect (required for the L/R channels) and check the noise level.  IC is Stan Warren's ancient recipe, unshielded twisted pair AWG12 19-strand copper THHN house wire. 

I need to double check Bruno's recommended connection for unbalanced preamp to the Ncore balanced input, which looked kind of strange but I only glanced at it. 

[Rclark]

That's an incredible feat right there alone. Right? I mean are there any other 600 watt, 2ohm stable amps of that size?

Just a few inches across!

[James Romeyn]

I wonder how Bruno keeps his intellectual property safe making them in China? 

[Rclark]

I gotta say that thread over there is a fantastic read. I feel like I've learned quite a lot more about how amps work along the way (with google and wikipedia open for help), and about where I am (page 60 and before) there was a really funny, longish debate going on between Bruno and some Italian competitor who seems quite surprised by the Ncore. I have yet to get to the launch of the NC400 itself or read any of the reviews.

But a fun read.