[srb]

Since the discussion had turned to used speakers, It was something [Athena AS-B1.2] I saw that was in his price range. I imagine they sound at least as good as the Insignia, per ones tastes.

The reason I responded to that was because it was the only speaker I had that really disappointed compared to other inexpensive speakers I had.
 
They seemed solid, they had all metal binding posts, I really wanted to like them, but the best way I can describe it is if you had a 20-band graphic EQ inline and grabbed a fistful of sliders in the center and dragged them down to -12dB.  The speakers I compared them to might have been a bit more expensive (B&W DM302, KEF Cresta 1), but even when I compared them to my $50 Costco Advent Marbl II outdoor speakers, they lost.  The Athenas might have had a slight edge in smoothness and bass extension, but the midrange suckout just had a very hollow sound to my ears.
 
Steve

[face]

Insignias with GR's crossover will be very hard to beat for 5 times the price for your application(nearfield).  For nearfield, the only other speakers I'd consider are small Tannoys or a project with these: https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=9062

[Letitroll98]

Steve is talking about the Athena AS-B1.2 here, I have the earlier AS-B1, but his findings mirror mine, I use them as rear surrounds where these attributes are somewhat of a benefit.
 

The reason I responded to that was because it was the only speaker I had that really disappointed compared to other inexpensive speakers I had.
 
They seemed solid, they had all metal binding posts, I really wanted to like them, but the best way I can describe it is if you had a 20-band graphic EQ inline and grabbed a fistful of sliders in the center and dragged them down to -12dB.  ................ the midrange suckout just had a very hollow sound to my ears.
 
Steve

I still keep trying to like them for music because of all of the positive reviews, but every time I hook them up in a 2 channel system they leave me flat.

So sticking to sales, closeouts, and retail pricing, eliminating used options because that just muddies up the water too much, still nothing matches the Insignia's at the asking price.  However there are strong recommendations to move up market slightly to the $100 to $200 range where you can get a significant upgrade in SQ.

PS  Looks like we (I) forgot to specify Rclark and Face's recommendation that the upmarket move should be to mod the Insignia, as they both note below.  Have you made a decision Ultralight? 

[Rclark]

Man, you're agonizing over this one. Buy a pair of Insignias, and then buy the GR Research upgrade kit. Forget about spending a little more on another stock speaker.

All I've done so far is reinforce the cabinet and I'm quite impressed by them. I've yet to get the kit which includes no rez, crossover, and also shows you how to reinforce further. Reports are that it is an incredible upgrade.

 Bone stock I'll tell you the carbon fiber coaxial has lots of potential with this upgrade kit. I would just go for it if I were you. Don't overthink this one. The GR option is a winner.

[face]

Since I've already mentioned it in this thread, I hope I don't come off as a shill, but Richie's kit is a no brainer.  You'll thank me later.

[Rclark]

So as I might have mentioned I've already lined them with 4 lbs of water putty, quite an improvement all its own. I've just ordered the GR kit and will report on it.

[Ultralight]

Quick note: I had asked the question because Best Buy has discontinued this and whatever is left in the system is all that's left.  So if anyone wants some, grab them.  At least that's what I'm told based on the sales rep reading the screen.  I had some trouble finding them and had to pull stock from a different store.

Thanks for all the comments.  Actually I have a pair in house that I'm testing.    A few quick comments:

1. My get level is that these will do better (better control of the woofer) with a solid state amp than a SET tube amp.
2. Break in does make a difference - more accurate base and more sense of depth after a few dozen hours.
3. At nearfield, they have imaging - but a bit diffiused sounding in terms of imaging compared to smaller drivers because these drivers are 6.5 inches.


UL

[AUDFILE74]

i run these as my system, i have to say the gr upgrade is easily worth the effort. i will add that i took the time to also fill the bottom with steelshot. i filled it to about halfway up the port.  i did the water putty  aas well. after the work, i can say it was  fantastic, i added a pair of cheapo  10 inch servo subs from sony, the creapy part is that i have such a good blend and transparency the it is creepy at night.  a poit needs to be made tha t setup is even more important after the mod.  the soundstage opens up  alot. imaging is solid. and tonality opens up big time. my next step is to test  foam in the center and see how my. stage depth will improve. after that i want to bust out my chipamp/B1  combo and a n oppo  as the source and go from there.

[Rclark]

They aren't really 6.5's because there is a tweeter in the center. I'm really excited to hear what this driver can do after the full mod.

[MLS]

I bought a pair new with a $50 BB gift certificate and a pair on CL used for $40.  I modded one pair with wood putty in the cabinet, Dynamat on the driver spokes, and I replace the caps and resister(s) with like Dayton 1% and Mills resisters.  They sound much better but still have the hollow midranges as mentioned previously. 

I use them as a nearfield monitor for my computer set up and they do nicely with great imaging and a nice sound stage.

For what I paid they are worth it and I had fun and like to mod things.

Scott

[Rclark]

As of now im running them with my virtue two.2 so that's a big part if why I like then without mods already, FYI.

GR's kit replaces with sonicaps, better than dayton, and there is also some modification, an overhaul of the whole crossover, not merely replacement. There are also bypass caps. And no-rez.

[Ultralight]

A bit OT but since this is my thread.... 

I am having a long running discussion with a speaker manufacturer.  He much preferred the KEH IQ10 over these - not surprising given the price differential. However, the IQ10 occasionally goes on sale around $150 new.   Given the cost of the GR upgrade plus the current $70+ on the insignias, I wonder if one should just go with the IQ10 instead with their coincident drivers. 

UL

[Rclark]

See I don't know if you're going to get a driver in a 150 package that's going to do anything especially better than this coaxial in the insignia. Its really very good, and the upgrade is, as many people have said, including Danny, something that transforms the speaker into something that punches way above its weight.

you'll have an average speaker for 150 and for 200 I'll have a no rez lined coax with bypassed sonicaps and quality parts, better bracing, etc.

Buy whatever you want, but I know what im doing   

[lowtech]

A bit OT but since this is my thread.... 

Given the cost of the GR upgrade plus the current $70+ on the insignias, I wonder if one should just go with the IQ10 instead with their coincident drivers. 

UL

Bingo.

In my estimation, the Insignia B2111 has some rather gross flaws.  While I'm sure that investing 2x or 3x their purchase price on better XO components and cabinet improvements will likely improve their performance, it won't fix the problems that caused me to return them to Best Buy for a full $35 refund (yes, that's what they cost me at the time).

What they do right out of the box is an artifact of their concentric design (it's also attributable to their fatal flaws).  Unfortunately the bass driver has some midrange issues in the 800Hz region that crossover parts/cabinet upgrades alone will not correct.

http://www.speakerdesign.net/midrange_tweaks/insignia/insignia_woofer.html

IMO enjoy the $35 Insignia B2111 as they are... unless you don't care that for triple the cost you could have bought something a lot better. 

As always, YMMV.

[wushuliu]

A bit OT but since this is my thread.... 

I am having a long running discussion with a speaker manufacturer.  He much preferred the KEH IQ10 over these - not surprising given the price differential. However, the IQ10 occasionally goes on sale around $150 new.   Given the cost of the GR upgrade plus the current $70+ on the insignias, I wonder if one should just go with the IQ10 instead with their coincident drivers. 

UL

You're better off sticking with the Insignia w/ GR upgrade: within this price range you are not going to trump a quality crossover like the GR. The crossover is the brain of the speaker. It makes or breaks the sound quality. That's what makes the upgrade so special; the KEF is manufactured to a low price point just like the Insignia's - it will have the same crappy components and crappy enclosure integrity just like most other retail <$500. You are not going to find ANY retail speakers in this price range with foil inductors and Lynk resistors...hell, not even in kilobuck price range!

As has been said, it is a no brainer.

P.S - I am speaking specifically regarding coaxial speakers like the Insignia's, not regular 2-way speakers of which there probably are contenders as far as sound quality.

[Rclark]

Ever see a $35 for-profit set of speakers? I have, I've bought speakers like that all the time in my life and they are nothing at all like these. For $35 you typically get a pair of tiny crap satellites.

These were clearly meant to be a loss leader, they weren't making any money off these things. Get people in the store, wow them, get them to associate BB with fantastic deals. Again, these destroy any $35 dollar speaker I've ever heard, indeed, I paid $90 and I was shocked when I opened the box.

Bottom line: Danny Richie took the time to create and offer a kit. That meant the base speaker had the merit to deserve an upgrade.

Not expecting these to be an end all be all. I wanted a good inexpensive speaker to listen to as I focus on finishing out my complete system before going back and finishing the n3's, and to also have some backup speakers.

[soundbitten1]

96 reviews, average rating 4.7 out of 5.0

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Insignia%26%23153%3B+-+6-1/2%22+Bass-Reflex+Bookshelf+Speakers+%28Pair%29/7705307.p?id=1138085354138&skuId=7705307#tabbed-customerreviews

[Rclark]

I'm really enjoying them right now, more than I thought I would. I have makeshift room treatments in place until I can build real ones, and they sound just great, really very musical, despite whatever flaws on paper
.. Very musical. Ill post pics of the upgrade in this thread and impressions after burn in.

 I will also compare to the n3 after they are done.

But as of now they are a total joy and im glad I bought them. They were a bit crude until I lined the cabinets, but not bad, I i expect the gr treatment to be pretty spectacular

[Rclark]

The GR Insignia Upgrade kit has arrived and I've snapped some pics, I suppose I'll show all that stuff if you want, but the pics on the GR site show it well enough. Except what those pictures lack is SCALE.

 I've not physically seen up close nor held high end crossover parts and I assumed that maybe the new crossover might end up slightly larger than the stock one in the Insignia.

 Wrong. I think the stock crossover is slightly larger than a saltine cracker. Just one of the inductors in the kit is larger than the whole old crossover, and WEIGHTY.

 The kit smacks of quality. I am sure to have it breaking in by tommorrow night if I can puzzle out this schematic. I'll figure it out.

 Oh, NO REZ is incredible stuff. There is such attention to detail in its design. A thick resonance killing layer at the bottom (where it belongs, so as to not mass load your woofers), followed by a Twinkie-dense layer of NASA level stuff, and even the surface has a special texture to kill standing waves just that much more.

 I'm excited. I know how these speakers sound with my gear with the first mod done (lined enclosure with water putty). I would describe them as extremely musical, fast, and accurate as is and it's a real puzzle how I only paid $90 for them. The driver has great texture and life. Now I'm excited to take it to the next level. I know they will be beyond superb.

 Small room. ERC-2, XDA-1, Virtue Two.2, Zman's cryo'd copper cables, Mac Ultra Silver. Using blankets on walls to kill reflections as placeholders for eventual room treatment.

[MLS]

Rclark I am glad you are enjoying your speakers and the process of modding them.  That is the essence of this hobby.

MLS