Royal Virtuoso - New Owner

melville · « **on:** 4 Apr 2004, 05:15 pm »

I just purchased a pair of Royal Virtuoso speakers, so I thought that I would join the club.

I was going to buy De Capo i speakers, but couldn't resist the price of a used pair of Virtuosos on Audiogon. They will not be here for about 2 weeks, so I'll post my impressions when I get them in my system.

System:
47 Labs Gaincard (25w/ch)
Bent Audio Noh
Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1 (Pcx mods)
Pioneer DVD 47Ai (Modwright mods)
EAR 834P
Oracle Delphi Mk V/Rega 900/Goldring Excel VX
Analysis Plus Oval 8 ICs and speaker cables
Cain & Cain Abby and Reference 3a Royal Virtuoso

sdk · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Apr 2004, 08:23 pm »

Wow, I didn't realize realize how similiar our systems were. The Bent NOH is a great match for the Virtuosos as both are offer a very transparent window into the sonic landscape. Nice digital front-end too. I've been holding out for a really good SACD player but for the last couple of years I've been disappointed with the latest offerings from the Sony, Philips and Marantz. It would be great if Audio Note came out with an SACD player because I'm sure it would sound good on both SACDs and redbook CDs.

I know I've said it before, but you've got to try a SET at some point just to hear how wonderful your Virtuosos can sound.

melville · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Apr 2004, 08:44 pm »

I had Decware Signature Monoblocks before I got the Gaincard, and there is no comparison. The 47 Labs out-tubes those particular tube amps - very mellow, dimensional and incredibly delicate sound. I really like the SFCD-1, particularly since I had it extensively modified by Parts Connexion. I bought the 47Ai as a DVD player, then got it modded for better SACD and DVD-A reporduction. The Bent Audio is another story: John was going to be building one for me after he got back from his holidays, but his father died, so he is leaving business alone for awhile; but I consider it as part of my system because it is imminent. I'm sure I will love it. I am replacing a Sonic Frontiers Line-2, which didn't work well with the Gaincard.

Paul L · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Apr 2004, 05:06 am »

I can imagine the SFL2 does not work with the Gaincard. The Gaincard is in completely differently philosophy. Only a good passive can improve upon Gaincard's own attenuator.

I still have not jump into the multichannel wagon yet but my TEAC/PT1a/Wright Mod PT3a/LW-1/Gaincard/De Capo can really gives me the most directly sound, analogue is Clearaudio. Interestly enough, one of my customers who is still sticking with his 70's highend (I admit it is a very good system at that age) said the system is too in the face!!!. I think we need to educate people what is 3D means.

sdk · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Apr 2004, 08:50 am »

I've known a number of people who ultimately became dissatisfied with their Decwares. You probably need super effecient speakers to get the most out of their very low power. The Art Audio Carissa with its 845 output tubes has the delicacy and transparency of the better SETs but unlike most SETs it can really rock out as well. And I mean to ear-bleeding levels (not that I do that). Playing stuff like early Led Zep is no problem. All the bass, drive and verve is there to really get into the music.

melville · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Apr 2004, 02:23 pm »

I heard other SETs, and was seduced by them, so I got a Zen. I started with the 1.8w/ch Select. That little beauty had amazing transparency and delicacy, but mini-power and really spartan cosmetics. Apparently it works very well with Avantgarde speakers. I upgraded to the Signature Monos which, at 3.8w/ch, seemed much more powerful. But these occasionally clipped (into the Abbys) on certain types of music, so I got the Gaincard. I was not prepared for the quality of sound that this little amp produces. Coincidentally, I was seriously considering the Clarissa. Art Audio has an excellent reputation for quality of workmanship, aesthetics and sound. I'm not surprised that you can rock with this amp. The one review that I read (6 moons, I think) reported that it had better bass and dynamics than most SETs. If I find the Gaincard too bright, I may have to go back to tubes, but I have only had it for a few months, so I really don't want to give it away to someone on Audiogon.

melville · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Apr 2004, 03:46 pm »

CARISSA - oops!

davejcb · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 03:32 am »

I'm waiting for my Royal Masters to hook up to my dual Zen Selects, should be interesting...

melville · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 07:59 pm »

Hi Dave:

I hope the Zens work for you. I found the Signature Monoblocks to be not enough power with the 95dB Abbys, but only on certain types of music. They clipped routinely on female soprano and large orchestral tuttis. Within their preferred frequency range they were very good, but the Gaincard is better in most ways. I do miss the dimensionality and air. The Gaincard can be seductively delicate. I am very excited about hearing Virtuoso speakers in my system.

davejcb · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 04:34 am »

Wow! 95db and they weren't enough??? What kind of volumes were you playing these at?

melville · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Apr 2004, 02:43 am »

The Signature Monoblocks only clipped on particular CDs of orchestral music, like the Gladiator soundtrack and others with bass-heavy full-orchestra content. They never clipped on the RR Arnold Overtures CD, however, and never on any of my better orchestral LPs. But they could not handle Kathleen Battle or Sarah Brightman, for example, and not at particularly loud volume. It may have had more to do with the 8 ohm rating of the speaker than the efficiency, but they are crossoverless, and contain only one 6.5" Fostex driver.

melville · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Apr 2004, 03:51 pm »

A new pair of Royal Virtuoso speakers are scheduled to arrive at my house on Saturday, April 24. I will keep you posted. I am very excited!

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 May 2004, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: melville

I had Decware Signature Monoblocks before I got the Gaincard, and there is no comparison. The 47 Labs out-tubes those particular tube amps - very mellow, dimensional and incredibly delicate sound. I really like the SFCD-1, particularly since I had it extensively modified by Parts Connexion. I bought the 47Ai as a DVD player, then got it modded for better SACD and DVD-A reporduction. The Bent Audio is another story: John was going to be building one for me after he got back from his holidays, but his fat ...

From what I understand the Decware amps surprisingly produce more power as the impedence drops (opposite of most traditional tube amps).

Since the virtuosos I think are around 6ohms minimum and 8ohms average then you won't be getting much from the decwares...unless you sit 3-4 feet away from the speakers. 3.8watts just doesn't provide any real world headroom for our speakers. Wrong matchup.

However the Gaincard with 25 watts is a better match and if you want SET sound but with more power I have a few suggestions:

Antique Sound Labs:
22watts Ki22 Fox (just bypass the internal volume control) ZeroNFB
22watts AQ1006 845 DT monoblocks Zero NFB
50watts EXPLORER 805 DT

Art Audio:
Adagio
Carissa

I think these tube amps will be much better suited to the virtuosos in the real world listening enviroment.

Enough headroom for transients and you will still have that SET Sound

sdk · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 May 2004, 08:24 pm »

Quote from: heavystarch

However the Gaincard with 25 watts is a better match and if you want SET sound but with more power I have a few suggestions:

Antique Sound Labs:
22watts Ki22 Fox (just bypass the internal volume control) ZeroNFB
22watts AQ1006 845 DT monoblocks Zero NFB
50watts EXPLORER 805 DT

Art Audio:
Adagio
Carissa

I think these tube amps will be much better suited to the virtuosos in the real world listening enviroment.

Enough headroom for transients and you will still have that SET Sound

Agreed. I have the Art Audio Carissa and I couldn't be happier. Actually, that's not entirely true because I got rid of my Carissa so I can get the new Carissa Signature which will have upgraded trannies and a host of other upgrades.

Melville also just bought a Carissa for his Virtuosos and he's pretty happy with the sound as well. I know Joe Fratus at Art Audio also owns a pair of RVs and and has used them to voice the sound of the Carissa. He has also used other speakers, but the RVs are one of his favorites.

The Carissa and RV are a very special match. I've tried many other amps and nothing locked onto the RVs like the Carissa. And no I'm not affiliated with Art Audio - I'm just a very very happy customer.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 May 2004, 03:26 am »

Quote from: sdk

Agreed. I have the Art Audio Carissa and I couldn't be happier.....at Art Audio also owns a pair of RVs and and has used them to voice the sound of the Carissa. He has also used other speakers, but the RVs are one of his f ...

Either of you guys in Utah? Cuz I would love to drop by and have a listen.

I really do think the Reference 3A line of speakers does extremely well when paired with SET tube amps. I used to have the ASL Ki22 Fox and it was one sweet setup. We just had our first baby a while back and to free up some money, in case of emergency, I sold the FOX. Since then it has been replaced with a pair of strollers (one for the mall and one for running), pack n play crib, car seat, a dresser for his clothes that is much nicer than my own, etc, etc, etc...yada yada yada...but, if it came down to it, I would give up my whole stereo and my life for that kid. We're just lucky to have such a cute little monkey...Anyway...

I have decided that when I have the time and money, I am going to ask Josh Stippich of www.electron-luv.com to help me design an amp around the 845 or 805 or maybe if i were crazy around the 833 output tubes. I very much want to have something totally unique and all my own one day for my babies(referring to my de capos of course).

Plus I will probably ditch the old de capo cabinet and build me a l'integral style cabinet of my own and try experimenting with tweeters for fun. But that is a whole other subject.

davejcb · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 May 2004, 04:58 am »

Well, I now have the Royal Masters hooked up to the twin Decware amps. Believe it or not, I'm listening to the damn things on the floor because I'm waiting for my Osiris stands.

So far, I'm very pleased with the mids and highs, not sure that they'll give me enough oomph down low, though. I'm sure it could get better with placement and room treatment. I also have to pick up my Ack! Dack, right now I'm running straight out of the Panasonic DVD-A7, which is surprisingly good. Shitty cables too.

Supposed to have a friend come over with his Cary 306/200 and Transparent cables, we'll see what these amps/speakers can do.

Definitely not bad though, the bass is really not that bad, very tight and defined, just no impact. Maybe an REL Strata III would help down the road.

sdk · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 May 2004, 01:38 pm »

If you're ever in Santa Cruz, you're more than welcome to come on by and take a listen. I would give a listen to the Art Audio Carissa before you spend your life savings on the Electron Luv stuff. The Art Audio is a bargain when you consider what you get for the money.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 May 2004, 09:54 pm »

Quote from: sdk

If you're ever in Santa Cruz, you're more than welcome to come on by and take a listen. I would give a listen to the Art Audio Carissa before you spend your life savings on the Electron Luv stuff. The Art Audio is a bargain when you consider what you get for the money.

Agreed.

I was just going to ask Josh if he would help me design it. I couldn't afford to pay him to build it too.

If I am ever in Santa Cruz I will give you a call. The same invitation holds here too (that is if you are ever in Provo, UT!!!).