[sts9fan]

I also don't think anyone is gonna use a 2.5" driver as thier main speakers other then at a computer. 

[Ultralight]

Greetings.  Thanks again to everyone here.

Planet 10, your query about budget is a good one.  However, at this point, I have no idea what I NEED to spend to get what I need.  I'd say in the low to perhaps mid hundreds is ideal.   Yet, if something comes along that is drastically superior but cost even considerably more, but offers a truly phenomenal value proposition, then I will consider it and see if I may figure out how fund an item.  That one experience in the hifi store touched the core of my being but I don't want to keep chasing some ephemeral ideal - just want to make one right purchase and be done with it.   I'm sure many of you here are chuckling over my last comment as I'm sure this is very addictive like any hobby. 

In other words, regarding budget, I have no idea where the law of diminishing return start to take a serious toll in regards to single driver value.  (I saw a Japanese full range driver that cost well over $10,000 a piece if I recall.  I think I can safely say that I am unwilling to pawn of my first AND second born for something like that.... )

I don't remember which Sonus Faber.  Apologies. I believe it is one level below their top of the line model. 

I am sitting at a single sheet glass desk, no drawers.  The left side is flanked by three flat glass shelves.  I plant to put a tube amp on one of the shelves.  There's a 42" monitor (Just a cheapie used 1080p LCD screen that got commandeered as a 2nd screen to complement my laptop) in front of the desk so the speakers have to clear the left and right.   I plan to have the speakers fire at ear level ACROSS the desk, not sit on the desk. 

By the way, have you heard the John Blue JB3?  I assume DIY easily best that unit for the same price range.

Problem with DIY is that I do not have the woodworking skills.  Used to be an electrical engineer by training 20 years ago but ministry responsibilities now preclude my being involved in setting a shop up.   (My designing fishing rods already stretched my time limit....but that's a different story.)

Thanks,
UL

[Quiet Earth]

I am sitting at a single sheet glass desk, no drawers. I plan to have the speakers fire at ear level ACROSS the desk, not sit on the desk. 

Another thing you might try is to have the speakers set up to focus the stereo image directly behind you instead of directly in front of you. That way you could avoid the speaker/desk interface altogether. In other words if you were to sit at your desk and then spin your chair 180 degrees, you would be facing the sweet spot with the speakers toed in just in front of you. When you're facing your desk the musical event is happening right behind you. I tried this once myself in an office/bedroom situation and it sounded very good to me.

That one experience in the hifi store touched the core of my being but I don't want to keep chasing some ephemeral ideal - just want to make one right purchase and be done with it.

Sometimes when you hear a set of equipment that sounds just right to you its cheaper in the long run to buy that exact set of gear instead of trying to buy a bunch of other stuff that approximates it. Sometimes . . .  $$$ Ka-ching $$$

[sts9fan]

Problem with DIY is that I do not have the woodworking skills.

Skills are over rated.

If ***I*** was putting together a desktop system that I wanted to use a small tube amp with I know what I would do without a doubt.  I would build of have built a pair of Solo 103 Fostex based speakers.  They are sesitive, cheap and sound really really good.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Solo103.html
http://www.hifizine.com/2010/12/a-solo-103-build/


 

[lcrim]

My first pair of quality speakers were a pair of Sonus Faber Concertinos.  That was at least ten years ago and I gave them to a former lady friend who loved music, which is why we were initially attracted to each other.  The Concertinos are now paired w/ lowish wattage hybrid amp that has a tube front end.  She listens w/o a sub and they sound very musical and image like crazy.
If you like the Sonus sound I think that a used pair could be found fairly cheap.
I listen to Omega Compact Hemps in my livingroom system now  but w/ a sub and they provide the detail and musicality that I loved in the Concertinos.
Good luck.

Larry

[JLM]

I listen to 8 inch single driver speakers in nearfield setup (68 inch, equilateral triangle) and it is half way between headphones and "far field" (conventional) setups.  But it follows the Cardas recipe and really locks the imaging in.

There are many good reasons to keep with a smaller driver, but fullness of bass is not one of them, that's why I use 8 inchers.  OTOH going the smaller driver/sub route makes tons of sense, but slips away from the purist ideal, takes more space in that small room, and adds connection "issues".

Auditioning is always a good idea.  Look below here at AC for Omega.  Their models using 6 inch drivers may fit your bill very well, and Louis does great work, but I do agree that assembled single driver speakers seem expensive (of course its harder to hide the costs when you're only using a single off the shelf part).  Another source at a more reasonable price is Bob Brines (google him).

The term "single driver" is typically used with much "looseness". 

[planet10]

...budget ...I'd say in the low to perhaps mid hundreds is ideal

Dollars? To meet that budget, you will need to be creative. Tube amps that fit the budget (new) are few and far between. I can think of 2 off the top (miniWatt is one of them, a Canadian company in a current thread here, still those are in the $300 vicinty). Used or someone else's diy creation if you get lucky. To even diy one would need to be clever (and it wouldn't hurt to have access to a good junk box)

(I saw a Japanese full range driver that cost well over $10,000 a piece if I recall.)

I have seen prices of the high end models of (probably) the same brand that cost as much as $75 k$. Having hd the opportunity to play with one of the sub $10k drivers i think you can do better for a lot less.

By the way, have you heard the John Blue JB3?  I assume DIY easily best that unit for the same price range.

Yes. A cheap, but shiny, mdf box, and it sounds like it. Handily flattened by a uFonken. But you want a bit bigger for the kind of bass you want.

Problem with DIY is that I do not have the woodworking skills.

A flat-pak kit? Someone else's surplus diy. (Yes, diyers often do not stop at just one)

Solo 103 is suggested & would be a good choice. That is one of the speakers that inspired my Fonkens. Depending on where you are (ministry implies to me a commonwealth country -- if Canada i may be able to help without killing the budget on shipping, if UK or Oz, there are some flat-pak start-ups that might be willing to help). More bass could be had in a similar size box, but at the sacrifice of efficiency (given expressed listening levels and proximity probably not enuff to make a difference)

dave

[Poultrygeist]

Here's an option to experience FR SD on the cheap ($150).

These 8 inch Betsy Open Baffles are so easy a 10 year old can put the panels together in a few minutes and the sound is quite remarkable. Although slightly on the large side, they work in close quarters, nearfield and can be folded out of the way when not in use.

The Betsy OB's are an excellent match for a $200 MiniWatt (S1), $300 MP-301 or cheap t-amp. They're musical, laid back, with decent bass and can be listened to for hours on end. I actually prefer their sound to my Tekton 4.5's which cost a few hundred more.

The neat thing about open baffle speakers is your room becomes the box.


http://www.wildburroaudio.com/

[Ultralight]

Planet 10/Dave.  Thanks.  My budget is just for the speakers.  The amp is separate.  So that gives me more room.   By ministry I mean as in Christian ministry.  Am in the USA.

Late here and have to speak tomorrow so I'll retire and check in more tomorrow.  I'll look at all the suggestions.  I guess the JB3 is out then though I've seen nothing but praises for it.   Appreciate everyone's comments. 

UL

[BPoletti]

You haven't really mentioned the kind of music you enjoy.  This can impact your decision since the musical dynamics and frequency response range is seriously different if you like Vivaldi or Mozart vs. Ravel or Pink Floyd. 

My preference is large scale orchestral works.  Very demanding of the hardware.  I have recently constructed a pair of speakers that perform reasonably well.  Unfortunately, the drivers have all been discontinued. 

I agree with Terry.  Dave / Planet10 has some very good designs, especially the innovative Fonken, and an excellent reputation.  He and Terry are also some of the most helpful members of this forum.  I've been listening to their advice for over 10 years. 

[JLM]

The John Blue JB3 are small and have a small driver, good for what they are.  They are what you expect: limited output, limited dynamics, and obviously limited bass.

I for one, don't understand why people try getting serious about desktop speaker based systems and that's what this speaker was made for.

I'd look at the Bob Brines FT-1600 Mk III (single 6 inch driver, floorstander, F3 = 49 Hz, 92 dB/w/m @ 8 ohms, $1500/pair).  If you want more bass (not sure I would in a small room) and are willing to spend more, Bob has several options.  Workmanship is good, very easy to work with, great prices.

Your proposed listening location at the desk will be less than ideal (sound bounce off glass - ouch).  I do both nearfield listening and directly behind that sit at the desk with single drivers (ear level nearfield, below ear level at the desk).  Imaging really locks in nearfield.  Sounds OK at the desk, but the magic is gone compared to nearfield.

(frankly glass is horrible) is going to bounce a bunch of sound, causing smearing. 

[TerryO]

You haven't really mentioned the kind of music you enjoy.  This can impact your decision since the musical dynamics and frequency response range is seriously different if you like Vivaldi or Mozart vs. Ravel or Pink Floyd. 

My preference is large scale orchestral works.  Very demanding of the hardware.  I have recently constructed a pair of speakers that perform reasonably well.  Unfortunately, the drivers have all been discontinued. 

I agree with Terry.  Dave / Planet10 has some very good designs, especially the innovative Fonken, and an excellent reputation.  He and Terry are also some of the most helpful members of this forum.  I've been listening to their advice for over 10 years.

UL,

Bill has given praise where it isn't due when he mentions me. 

Both Dave and Bill are very sharp people and have a lot of knowledge. Me? I just "get lucky" from time to time. Although..."if" we learn from our mistakes, I should be getting close to Einstein level by now.

What Bill has mentioned about your taste in music is very important, IMO, and should be considered carefully.

(Psssst: Please, do not talk about fishing around Bill, or you'll never get back on topic again!)

Best Regards,
TerryO

[Ultralight]

LOL. I doubt that my fishing rods are of much interest to most people.  It's a very focused niche where I'm pushing the envelope on ultralight rods built for the lightest physical weight possible for greatest sensitivity.  I got so serious that I had blanks custom built to my specifications.

Anyways, the music I listen too are almost entirely acoustic, meaning acoustic jazz, vocals, instruments such as piano/guitar, small ensembles and orchestral work. The orchestral work is probably the most demanding part of my listen and I do not listen to it much because my current desktop setup cannot do that justice.


UL

[TerryO]

LOL. I doubt that my fishing rods are of much interest to most people.  It's a very focused niche where I'm pushing the envelope on ultralight rods built for the lightest physical weight possible for greatest sensitivity.  I got so serious that I had blanks custom built to my specifications.

Anyways, the music I listen too are almost entirely acoustic, meaning acoustic jazz, vocals, instruments such as piano/guitar, small ensembles and orchestral work. The orchestral work is probably the most demanding part of my listen and I do not listen to it much because my current desktop setup cannot do that justice.

While I have no idea how your desktop will effect the sound, it'll be the same with just about any speaker placed there.

Given the music you enjoy, one of the Fonkens would be my first (second, third...) choice. I've heard a lot of them and they sound excellent.

Not a woodworker?

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a woodworker near by that is in dire need of a new fishing rod and would willing to trade. If you also tie flys, you might be in a extremely powerful bargaining position.

"I'll even throw in a couple of Royal Coachmen for the Burl Veneer upgrade."
 

Best Regards,
TerryO

[BPoletti]

While I have no idea how your desktop will effect the sound, it'll be the same with just about any speaker placed there.

Given the music you enjoy, one of the Fonkens would be my first (second, third...) choice. I've heard a lot of them and they sound excellent.

Not a woodworker?

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a woodworker near by that is in dire need of a new fishing rod and would willing to trade. If you also tie flys, you might be in a extremely powerful bargaining position.

"I'll even throw in a couple of Royal Coachmen for the Burl Veneer upgrade."
 

Best Regards,
TerryO

I've never heard the Fonkens, but they have a great reputation.  I trust Terry's judgement.  That would seem like a good option if the FR125SRs were still available.  I'd be very interested in hearing opinions of the Fonkens with the Mark Audio CHR70 including comments from Dave.   

I used to fish ultralight but really prefer fly fishing.  Still have a few good u/l outfits.  It just seems like the option with the most fun for those irregularly almost annual fishing trips to Alaska.  I'm not a very good fisherman but really enjoy the time on the water. 

[TerryO]

````````````````````````snip````````````````````````
I used to fish ultralight but really prefer fly fishing.  Still have a few good u/l outfits.  It just seems like the option with the most fun for those irregularly almost annual fishing trips to Alaska.  I'm not a very good fisherman but really enjoy the time on the water.

And so it begins....

I remember my cousin telling about a minnow he once caught. Over the years, with each retelling, that darn fish magically grew bigger and bigger. Recently it was reported, and... ("This is the truth") that minnow had reached the size of a Blue Whale!
 

Best Regards,
Terry

[planet10]

I'd be very interested in hearing opinions of the Fonkens with the Mark Audio CHR70 including comments from Dave. 

Don Austin & Stew Nelles are probably better positioned to comment. They have both lived with them (with CHR-70eN 1st generation). Stew is currently off-line, but he has commented a number of times in his "From the Pulpit" in Affordable Audio. http://affordableaudio.org/Welcome.html

I currently have 5 different Mark Audio based miniOnken in the house. dMar-Ken7 are my personal favorite, Mar-Ken10.2 & Mar-Ken12 next but i haven't sorted a preference for those 2 yet. Of the inexpensive drivers, i prefer EL70eN (Mar-Kel70) over CHR-70.2eN in CHR-Ken. If i was a rock-n-roller Mar-Kel would likely rise to the top, and with "lessor" amplification EL70 or CHR are less likely to shine a light on amplifier shortcomings. With those kinds of shortcomings the less expensive drivers would provide a better experience.

Comments from an Alpair tasting yesterday:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/184463-alpair-selection-2.html#post2572404

I could live with any of them. And with gen 3 CHRs & CHPs (EL70) being made in the next 2 weeks or so (& in NA 6-8 weeks later), a re-evaluation will be necessary. There is also going to be a CHP BassWide which will make some interesting FASTs & 1.5 way projects.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/184372-chr-70-generation-3-coming-soon-17.html#post2572361

dave

[doorman]

The CHR-70 eNA drivers in the Chr-Ken cabs are a very satisfying combination, but as I've not lived with the dMarken7's, can't comment there.
The MA Alpair 10.2's in their "Onken" inspired enclosures, however, surpass the CHR-70's in every way that's important to me, ie: dynamics, bass output, combined with a very well controlled top end. They do most music with finesse and authority. They image slightly , and only slightly, less well, in my room &c. &c. than their smaller siblings. Also, the 10.2's, with their higher efficiency, are a surprisingly good match with my cathode follower 3 1/2 wpc amp.
My initial thoughts are that the 10.2's are a wonderful driver, and I can well understand the enthusiastic feedback in the Pensil cabs as well. (my 10.s' have rec'd Dave's "full monty" cone treatment)
Best, don

[JLM]

Great info Don, but can you provide links please?

[doorman]

http://www.planet10-hifi.com/ma.html
check out the "box plan library section" for enclosure designs
best, don