Help!!!

mono-tubeleosis · « **on:** 2 May 2011, 02:29 am »

Wow, what has happened over the last couple years? I've been away from the scene for a bit and I got the itch to build something again. I recently spoke (email) with Danny Richie during the past week and I've decided to get the Super-V's. I'm pretty stoked. Thanks to everyone by the way for allowing me to search through several threads to help me make my decision. Your comments to each other were very helpful. I especially enjoyed the thread of the Orion vs the V2.

I was pretty sure I was going to get the V2's at first but after talking it over with my wife she convinced me I wouldn't be happy if I didn't get the ones I really wanted. Boy did I do a good acting job.

Seriously though, I would have been more than happy with the V2's. They sound like they're just awesome. I just couldn't get over not having those servo subs. I almost got the LS-6's two years ago but life and business stalled me at the MDF stage of the build.

I've been a loyal GR guy for several years now and I've never been disappointed. My first speakers from Danny were the AV1+'s (renamed AV2's). After that I got the Paradox 3's. I put the AV's into my HT and added the center channel and AV-R's. I also purchased some AV-1's for a vacation home. I then sold my P3's to a friend and got a pair of OB-5's which I currently have. I haven't decided yet what I'll do with them once I get my Super-V's. I'll probably give them to my son.

Now that I have decided on that I couldn't help but notice everyone talking about dac's and deqx's and mini-mac's etc. Talk about a paradigm shift. All I've been doing this weekend has been researching the entire landscape.

I'm hoping I can get some help. I really want to get a DAC. Coming from the old school, I had a Thorens table with a Grace F9E ruby and I've never been happy with digital. It was just too easy not to have digital. I tried to convince myself it sounded good but I knew it didn't come close to analog. I have the Dodd battery pre (one of the original first 20 built) and two Dodd mono-blocks adorned in granadil wood. Boy are those gorgeous to look at, and do they sound wonderful.

Since I've pretty much shot the wad on speakers, I really need to be smart getting a very good dac at a very good price. If building my own gets me the biggest bang for the buck then I'll do it.

My dilemma is even though I've been doing a crash course this weekend trying to decipher all the info on all the different devices, I'm still lost on what to do. 8 bit, 16,24,32 yadda yadda. Tube ones, different chips, usb-mini mac, coaxial for CD (I have a Rega Planet) etc. etc. There seem to be endless options and the last thing I can afford to do right now is to go "Dac rolling". I saw the Chinese kits which look intriguing and reasonably priced.

Sorry I'm rambling, but I'm just not sure what to do and I'm hoping someone can give me some advice based on the equipment I already have. By the way I also have a MacBook Pro. Do I need to get a Mini Mac? I heard that was best which is ironic since I just bought one for my son in college trying to save money not getting him a laptop.

I'm also really exited about the DEQX type device. Pretty amazing stuff but I'll ask for help on that after I zero in on a dac first. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I do appreciate it.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 May 2011, 02:44 am »

Digital has moved through several of those paradigm shifts lately. I keep asking Dave Elledge, "where does it end", because it seams like ever few weeks or so we took another step up from where we were.

This new Mach2 modded Mac Mini that I am running (off the grid now) is the bomb. I am still in almost disbelief.

I'd do this though if I were you. Ease into it. You have a MacBook Pro. Use it. And put all you music on an external hard drive.

Then talk to Dave (PI Audio) about trying one of the new Music Streamer Pro's with some special sauce on top. You'll be floor and won't have spent much doing it either.

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 May 2011, 03:11 am »

Thanks Danny. I was thinking that was the best way to ease in by using my book for now. I've been a Mac guy since 89 since I'm in the Graphic Design and Printing business. I have top of the line Mac Pro 12 cores at work.

How funny is that.

I'll get in touch with Dave right away. I've never seen so much change in such a short period of time. I listened to the owner of DEQX on You tube this morning. I'm just blown away with all of this right now. Absolutely amazing.

I forgot to mention I hope Gary is doing better.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 May 2011, 04:06 am »

Quote

I listened to the owner of DEQX on You tube this morning.

Funny thing is those are still bottle necked by the D/A conversion built into those units. They are still not even in the ball park of the really good DAC's.

Gary has been doing a little better. But they moved his surgery back to the 20th.

morganc · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 May 2011, 04:59 am »

Quote from: Danny on 2 May 2011, 02:44 am

Digital has moved through several of those paradigm shifts lately. I keep asking Dave Elledge, "where does it end", because it seams like ever few weeks or so we took another step up from where we were.

This new Mach2 modded Mac Mini that I am running (off the grid now) is the bomb. I am still in almost disbelief.
I'd do this though if I were you. Ease into it. You have a MacBook Pro. Use it. And put all you music on an external hard drive.

Then talk to Dave (PI Audio) about trying one of the new Music Streamer Pro's with some special sauce on top. You'll be floor and won't have spent much doing it either.

Hi Danny,
Heading off thread here, but can you describe the changes from simply going to the battery powered Mac Mini? I am running an un modded Mac Mini with a Sig Tranquility DAC through ( soon) an Uber Buss. Where did you notice the biggest gains in your Mac Mini set up if you don't mind my asking?

HT cOz · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 May 2011, 02:14 pm »

I've been very happy with my Audio-gd NFB-2. Here is a pic

For $450 dollars you get chips with great reputations like the DIR9001 reciever chips and the Wolfson WM8741 DAC. Now those chips are nothing with out clean power. So these DACS have no Op Amps and use 6 groups of class A parallel power supplies to run the various parts of the DAC.

They also have another model called the NFB-3 for $300 that is probably 95% of the NFB-2. So for very little Coin you can have good sound that will allow your budget to recover for the future super DAC

Good Luck
Robert

Danny Richie · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 May 2011, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: morganc on 2 May 2011, 04:59 am

Hi Danny,
Heading off thread here, but can you describe the changes from simply going to the battery powered Mac Mini? I am running an un modded Mac Mini with a Sig Tranquility DAC through ( soon) an Uber Buss. Where did you notice the biggest gains in your Mac Mini set up if you don't mind my asking?

Drop in noise floor. Better low level resolution levels. And better layering in the sound stage.

It was one of these things that made me ask myself, are you kidding me? Can it get that much better again?

patricksalter · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 May 2011, 05:28 pm »

Danny, are you suggesting that a Mac connected to the Tranquility DAC is going to sound better than a PC connected to the same DAC? I have a hard time buying that.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 May 2011, 07:16 pm »

Quote from: patricksalter on 2 May 2011, 05:28 pm

Danny, are you suggesting that a Mac connected to the Tranquility DAC is going to sound better than a PC connected to the same DAC? I have a hard time buying that.

So far from our comparisons that seems to be the case. But not because one is a Mac and one is a PC. It appears to have a lot to do with the layout of the parts on the board and how susceptible it is to noise and or noise from a power supply. Both the PC's and Mac notebooks have sounded better without the chargers being off (battery only).

And the best sounding so far has been the Mac Mini. Lots of little things have proved to have made a lot of difference too. Shutting down all non-essential operating systems helps a lot. Getting rid of the stock hard drive and going to a solid state drive helped a lot. And getting the power supply out of the computer and going strictly off a batter power supply helped a lot too. Then Dave buffered the battery power with his new Mac Mini Buss and improvements were made again.

It seems like every time we turn around we are finding a new and worth while tweak.

For instance: Playing the music from an external drive was an improvement. Then powering the external drive with its own power supply and modifying the fire wire 800 cable so that it is not carrying a powered signal made another positive difference.

Then there are some tweaks on the USB cable that make a pretty noticeable difference.

When you start adding up all of these tweaks the end result is a long way from any stock computer set up regardless of it being a Mac or PC.

I wonder how long it will be before Dave Cryo's a Mac Mini?

Rclark · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 May 2011, 01:43 am »

Quote from: HT cOz on 2 May 2011, 02:14 pm

I've been very happy with my Audio-gd NFB-2. Here is a pic

For $450 dollars you get chips with great reputations like the DIR9001 reciever chips and the Wolfson WM8741 DAC. Now those chips are nothing with out clean power. So these DACS have no Op Amps and use 6 groups of class A parallel power supplies to run the various parts of the DAC.

They also have another model called the NFB-3 for $300 that is probably 95% of the NFB-2. So for very little Coin you can have good sound that will allow your budget to recover for the future super DAC

Good Luck
Robert

Is that a DIY unit? Links? And links to reviews? If I dig it I will totally sell my XDA-1 in a heartbeat. Can you possibly link to some other highly regarded diy dacs?

I'm on something of a budget myself, piecing together the first system. Sorry to hijack but had to once I saw that.

HT cOz · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 May 2011, 02:07 am »

I will try. Here is a link to the manufacturer http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm

They are definately not DIY and are sold as fully working units. Various other members have started using them. Wushuliu one of our memeber who worked on many DIY DACS recomends them.I will say that I don't have great experience with many different DACS but I wanted to get a DAC that would not hold back the rest of my system and I felt that this was a good start. Plus I'm living on a real tight budget...

Hope this helps.

PS I should just send it to Danny and see how he thinks it stacks up. I sure for under $500 its a contender!

HAL · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 May 2011, 02:25 am »

The Wolfson WM8741 DAC is a great chip if it is implemented well.

Rclark · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 May 2011, 03:31 am »

Not much of a website there. Impossible to get much info about the individual units, unless the site is not working for me. There's pretty much just some data about the units on the price list. That said the NF7 seems interesting with balanced circuitry.

Edit: oooh. Scroll down. I was clicking on the unit names and expecting something to pop up.

What's better dual wolfson's or the Sabre chip?

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 May 2011, 04:05 am »

Thanks HT. I'll certainly look into it. Sounds like a good one. I liked the reviews I saw on the HRT streamers last night. Even the little one sounded good based on the reviews I read on Amazon.

Yeah I really can't spend too much too soon after getting the Supers first. I'll need to sneak in the Dac when the better half isn't looking. Actually she's pretty cool with my insanity. For her, doing artwork in her studio listening to Itunes through bad Bose speakers suits her just fine. Go figure. She does have excellent taste in music though. Always kind of had an underground pallet.

Anyways, I can't wait to hear analog. My Rega CD was supposed to sound the most analog of the players in its group whatever that means. I never warmed up to digital. no pun intended.

Do these Dac's truly output analog? I mean it's not like some kind of hybrid simulated analog is it? Also, I'm confused on how one computer can make that much of a difference over another one. I understand the higher the bit rate the higher the resolution, but its still just a file of binary code isn't it? That same file coming out of one computer should basically be the same coming out of another computer isn't it?

I could send a graphic file to two computers with the same color profile and then send it to the same printer and they will come out the same. Isn't it the same thing here?

I'm also confused on what a buffer is. Tell me I don't need to get rid of my Dodd battery pre amp. I love that thing. I just hate messing with the batteries-

Not really. I only bring this up because I thought I read here somewhere someone was selling his.

I also had a two part question for Danny. First, is the 50W tube amps I have going to be a good fit with the Super-V's, and since I have two amps could they be used to go active for the mids and the highs? I'm assuming I don't need a third amp for the servo's since they already have their own. I'm not saying I'm going active or I'll even know how to do it at this point, I just wanted to know if I did do I have enough amps.

I

HT cOz · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 May 2011, 04:08 am »

I like this guys website for a review of the differnt sounds http://www.lampizator.eu/Updates.html

The ESS DAC probably wins but who really knows without comparing and even then I think it will be a bit of a crap shot. The Wolfson is supposed to be a bit more forgiving and I went with the least expensive of the multiple class A power supplies.

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 May 2011, 04:31 am »

Quote from: HT cOz on 3 May 2011, 04:08 am

I like this guys website for a review of the differnt sounds http://www.lampizator.eu/Updates.html

The ESS DAC probably wins but who really knows without comparing and even then I think it will be a bit of a crap shot. The Wolfson is supposed to be a bit more forgiving and I went with the least expensive of the multiple class A power supplies.

Again, thanks. I've got some studying to do. Wolfson seems to be the word that keeps popping up since I've been searching. What is meant by properly implementing them? are we talking cables? Sorry, I'm in the first grade on this stuff right now. This technology seems to be all over the map. Many choices indeed.

Rclark · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 May 2011, 04:33 am »

Here's a review of the 7. There are reviews out there on these things.

http://www.hifizine.com/2011/03/audio-gd-nfb-7-dac/

It looks very impressive under the hood! A very good review as well.

They look to be very nice! That one is $1300 minus shipping. I think I'll continue to build my system, then sell my XDA-1 at earliest opportunity as I am quite certain it will be the weakest link in my system.

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 May 2011, 04:57 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 3 May 2011, 04:33 am

Here's a review of the 7. There are reviews out there on these things.

http://www.hifizine.com/2011/03/audio-gd-nfb-7-dac/

It looks very impressive under the hood! A very good review as well.

They look to be very nice! That one is $1300 minus shipping. I think I'll continue to build my system, then sell my XDA-1 at earliest opportunity as I am quite certain it will be the weakest link in my system.

Wow. Awesome review. Weird that they discontinued it. Makes me want to dig for reviews on the 450.00 one.

Rclark · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 May 2011, 05:50 am »

I think they're still making it if you look at the comments underneath, it's a customer demand thing, I guess.

Rclark · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 May 2011, 07:46 am »

check out their preamps!

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/pre/C3End/C3endEN.htm

That one looks like a Bryston with the power supply in a different chassis. $1400.