[Elizabeth]

"At what level do you stop wearing out LPs.. When your arm is under 5 grams.
So ANY TT made after 1960 will do just fine. (except the one made for toddlers...)
And plenty of ones made before 1960 will be ok too. Just avoid the ones with a sapphire 'flip' stylus!
Really any TT which hase a modern (read post 1960) cart will not wear out LPs ( if the stylus is not worn out)
Ifit tracks at under three grams it is gonna be good.

[orientalexpress]

setting up a turntable is like learning riding a bicycle,once you learn it ,you never forget.I highly recommended AVA

 http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=248&Itemid=245&74a0ad6b5f7a1df0ef4ab98b8fffbb41=c27f6638b367fdb5090142226ffeaea8




lapsan

[TheChairGuy]

Good luck, Andy - we're here to help when you do make the step and actually have a TT in your possession 

Don't sweat the purchase - most things about turntables can be improved by mere mortals - elegantly proven by my own experiences and improvement made to them over time

John

[bside123]

Buy a record player; spin records; enjoy music; get started... 

Here, this is in Ohio: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93829.0

Plug & Play

[thunderbrick]

+1!   

[buckeyefanandy]

Here's an idea.........do as Bob in St louis did.........and pick up an AR-XA.  Bring it to Columbus, and I'll show you how to go through it. Maybe the act of actually getting your hands in ahead of the music will help you also. There is a certain ritual about vinyl that can't be replaced with a CD. Just as there is a certain something about vinyl sound that can't be replaced by CD..........BUT There also is a certain something about when you drop the rock and smile to yourself knowing you "built that sum-bitch" yourself.

I just finished an XA early Friday evening. My neighbor came by for a listen. About half was through Sade's  Smooth Operator he made me a pretty generous offer.  An XA can charm the socks off of you.

That is exactly what the doctor ordered, literally.  I will begin to hunt and get back with you.  That sounds like a very rewarding experience and one that will serve me well into the future.

Thank you for all the advice, it was not till I read some of my earlier posts that I could see that I was feeling stressed about the table search.  It was a good way for me to realize how things were getting to me, just had not been paying enough attention.  Taking the next couple days off and going to go have some fun.  Then back to work and tt hunt.

[Jlappy]

Taking the next couple days off and going to go have some fun.  Then back to work and tt hunt.

Andy,  Be well!  When you come back whatever path you take on your trek back into vinyl land there are many folks here that will help you along your way. . . . ironically they are also buckeye fans 

[orthobiz]

The guy at vinylnirvana dot com always has the XA and XB available, he sells them refurbished at a reasonable cost and will mount a cartridge if you wish.

Paul

[Wayner]

I have owned 4 different AR-XAs a different times. 2 have been made into ARCom and ARMod. While some may fancy this table, it's a crap shoot to find one that doesn't have a weakened motor and there are zero replacements available, unless you want to put an Origin Live DC motor in it.

While the table does have many fine sonic qualities, it is not a table for a newby looking for plug and play. They simply don't exist unless some one you know has correctly repaired and calibrated it.

On another note, I have to ask what sonically inferior sounds come from a Technics SL1200MKII?
As someone that owns (or has owned) many, many turntables, The Technics (if set-up properly) can sound damn near the same as my VPI HW-19jr, or my Sony PS-X5, X7s or the AR mods.

Technics didn't know what they were doing, that is why they only sold 3.1 million SL1200s, almost all of which are still in use today.

Wayner 

[bastlnut]

oooooooh, ok,

the inferior sound quality of the Technics SL 1200xxx DJ turntable.
well, it is a DJ turntable and after the first version, the mk I, was never meant to be for consumers.
the bass is exagerated and the treble is extended but it is over damped and sucks the life out of the music.
it is like a loudness button on an integrated amp.
it can be placed on any table top or wobbly wooden bar and still not have any acoustic feedback.
the price for this is killing the dynamic and any low level information.
the tonearm is not the best quality on top of its other deficits.

this is the turntable version of the Denon DL 103 and to some extent the rest of the Denon line of cartridges.
any low level information is lost so it will not be caught out of step with condense and complicated music.
the midrange is great but you hear no real ambiance of the room in which the record was recorded in.
same with the Technics DJ turntable, anything behind the front line is played down and best ignored....
not what i think, but this is what the turntable does.

for me, the music lives because of all the minute detail and ambiance of the location in which it was recorded in.
treble extension is only of importance if the rest of the recording is there too.
bass does not have to hit you in the chest but it needs to be tuneful and really resonate in the body of the instrument and the room....sound stage.
the 1200 just kills all this wonderful part of the music that makes it live and feel life like.
even a better tonearm does not solve the problem.
the plinth is a faulty design for home use.

plug and play is plug and play, but there are still levels of quality here too.

regards,
bas

[thunderbrick]

Here we go!   

[Wayner]

No offense, but your out of your mind. Then The VPI-HW-19jr or it's relatives are also POSs as are the Empires or my Sony PS-X7. "Cause the SL1200MKII can hold it's own with any of these tables.

I wonder if you've even heard a modern day SL1200MKII? I gave up my ARs in favor of it. Room acoustics are in spades. Frequency response is pretty flat, top to bottom.

Wayner 

[TheChairGuy]

OK, Wayner and bastlnut - keep your coolio's on here, please 

Just for additional perspective, I found much the same with the SL1200 - lifeless quality with even a $2800 Origin Live tonearm, outboard motor, strobe disabler, new feet and new platter mat.  Maybe it benefits from a different / newer bearing...but, I too suspect the issue is the rubber/overdamped plinth myself.

It has so many redeeming features (solid, feedback resistant, and it was once only $500) that it was hard to NOT recommend it.  At it's new cost of $1000+, I think a (new) Rega will do nicely for less money and higher quality sound these days.

John

[BaMorin]

I have owned 4 different AR-XAs a different times. 2 have been made into ARCom and ARMod. While some may fancy this table, it's a crap shoot to find one that doesn't have a weakened motor and there are zero replacements available, unless you want to put an Origin Live DC motor in it.

While the table does have many fine sonic qualities, it is not a table for a newby looking for plug and play. They simply don't exist unless some one you know has correctly repaired and calibrated it.

On another note, I have to ask what sonically inferior sounds come from a Technics SL1200MKII?
As someone that owns (or has owned) many, many turntables, The Technics (if set-up properly) can sound damn near the same as my VPI HW-19jr, or my Sony PS-X5, X7s or the AR mods.

Technics didn't know what they were doing, that is why they only sold 3.1 million SL1200s, almost all of which are still in use today.

Wayner 

 ...........OK, where do I start?  Unless the motor has a shorted coil, normally it's the pole piece after 40+ years that loses some of its magnetism. That can be cured. The spindle bore in the motor gets dirty. Not an issue, neither is better thrust washers and resetting the top bushing. I have 3 to be rebuilt.
I make a thrust bearing for the(platter) spindle well and tonearm well. The tonearm gets taken apart, rewired. The brass barrel has the delrin bearings removed and sapphire ones installed. It then gets fused to the steel collet. The tonearm tube ( as mentioned in another thread ) gets damped in three spots. Vertical friction comes in < 10mg.  Jelco lists <20mg, and Linn lists <50mg.
The suspension system gets repaired........and that is where 90% of the timing and sustain takes place in a suspended table. Of all the "other people" mods I've seen on AR tables, nobody really addresses some pretty basic issues in the suspension.

I'm not trying to disagree with you Wayne......just pointing some things out I've found.

I don't own an XA as an everyday table.....my modded ES-1 is. Those can't be had after I'm done with them for entry level money. My XAs can.  I firmly believe at today's entry level money, a properly modded XA will run with any of them. I recieved a pretty nice note from a audio salesman regarding the parts I sent him for his EB101, and then what he ran it against. 

[Wayner]

Putting an arm that has been designed on a 222 p to s spacing on a table that is made for a 215mm arm is probably not a good idea and perhaps most of John's table problems. It's once again, all about geometry.

And like I've said, there are lots of TTs that have gone thru this house and when someone knocks a particular model without some valid experience, I have to "rebuttal" the opinion, just for sanity's sake.

An SL1200MKII with a proper cartridge will have even speed, produce fabulous sound stages and be very dynamic. poorly aligned, treated or otherwise tables will be less then wonderful.

Wayner

[Wayner]

...........OK, where do I start?  Unless the motor has a shorted coil, normally it's the pole piece after 40+ years that loses some of its magnetism. That can be cured. The spindle bore in the motor gets dirty. Not an issue, neither is better thrust washers and resetting the top bushing. I have 3 to be rebuilt.
I make a thrust bearing for the(platter) spindle well and tonearm well. The tonearm gets taken apart, rewired. The brass barrel has the delrin bearings removed and sapphire ones installed. It then gets fused to the steel collet. The tonearm tube ( as mentioned in another thread ) gets damped in three spots. Vertical friction comes in < 10mg.  Jelco lists <20mg, and Linn lists <50mg.
The suspension system gets repaired........and that is where 90% of the timing and sustain takes place in a suspended table. Of all the "other people" mods I've seen on AR tables, nobody really addresses some pretty basic issues in the suspension.

I'm not trying to disagree with you Wayne......just pointing some things out I've found.

I don't own an XA as an everyday table.....my modded ES-1 is. Those can't be had after I'm done with them for entry level money. My XAs can.  I firmly believe at today's entry level money, a properly modded XA will run with any of them. I recieved a pretty nice note from a audio salesman regarding the parts I sent him for his EB101, and then what he ran it against.

I have no doubt of your skills, but the vinyl newbie will never accomplish such feats. I pity the poor novice that has to work on these tables. I know you have the skills to make an AR sing. Others do not. And because of this, it's poor table to recommend  (like off of an eBay sale). It's going to end up with someone very bitter.

Just trying to do a reality check here.

 

[buckeyefanandy]

Headed to a local hifi resale shop up the road.  They had that 208 empire that is on layaway, a thorens td 160, and a rough ar ax.  These were the only sub $300 tables in the shop that the owner felt was worth a second look.

[bastlnut]

hallo,

get the Thorens TD 160.
easy to upgrade and modify and holds its value well.
if you can still spend $1k then this will get you a much better turntable package if you look for used equipment.

regards,
bas

p.s.
i have said my piece bout the Technics SL 1200, i have one still that gets zero use since i have a JVC QL-5, and have nothing more to say about it.

[buckeyefanandy]

Is the sl 1200 for sale?

My local guy says they sell as soon as they come in for $300.  Kids keep buying them to dj.  He says the price will rise since they have discontinued the table and the demand is still there.

I have a friend that is pushing the new Rega p1.   He says for 450, you get a 300 arm that can be saved for many a table....  Will be making the first move by the end of the week.

[TheChairGuy]

Wayner,

I don't want to get too far afield....but I own and have tried both an AQ-6 (Linn geometry and JELCO made arm) and both a highly modified Rega 250 and $2800 Origin Live Illustrius II arm on the SL1200...and several types cartridges after ALL the upgrades and have reached all the same conclusion.

The aftermarket arm boards bought correctly size the 9" arms to the SL1200 precisely...so it wasn't a tracing issue at all.

It's simply a highly recommendable table for $500 new...but at over $1000 now, I'd take a Rega3 for $100 or more less these days. At $500 or less it's sonic shortcomings are forgivable; at $1000 not so much.

Like bastlnut, mine sits unused and I'd rather listen to the much less expensive VPI Classic and two JVC's I own. Someday I need to free up $2000 (my investment was closer to $3200 in it to find out it sounds so-so) or so and sell it.  But, honestly, one of the reasons I haven't is that I don't think it's worth this kind of spread. Maybe if I choose to sell for less I'll sleep better at night.

Frankly it's the most I've spent on any table and the least sonically enjoyable of the last 4 bought and owned for less.  It's not terrible by any means, but it's simply so-so.