Sealed Super-V

Outofthewoods · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 Apr 2011, 05:09 pm »

BIG, BLACK AND BEAUTIFUL!!!

Congrats Jonathan!

Have you listened to the Super V's before? If so, would you say that the similarities between your creation and the original design pretty much ends with the amp and drivers, or???

Comparing the width of the 12" drivers to the depth of the enclosure, it appears as though the baffle is out about 3 feet from the wall as it sits. Did you ever consider sealing the subs only and leaving the coax in an OB configuration?

Thanks,

Ruben

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 12:15 am »

Hey, Don! I've never heard the N3s, so I can't speak on that one (would love to, though

). Comparing these to the stratas (and keep in mind this is before pretty much any of the components in the SSVs are broke in yet), they share in a slightly darker overall tone to the sound. The SSVs are very articulate mids-highs, but are very "matter of fact" in how they deliver. In comparison, the minis have an airy kind of ambient way of making music, maybe even a little breathy and delicate (which for some kinds of music is kind of a fault).

The SSVs have them hands down in dynamics and an effortlessness in presentation (I got the minis dialed in close regarding effortlessness, but that was in a 15x10x7.5 sealed room). Also, the minis' powered drivers are good, but the servos on the SSV are just a whole different level, and sealed vs. ported, not to mention sheer difference in driver area/sensitivity. . .

Short version - comparisons can be made, but these really are apples and oranges to each other. I very much like the minis, and could probably have easily lived with them in another life (and honestly right now am missing the planar driver sound just a little bit), but part of the desire to change things up was just that - to change things up, and with a slightly different set of goals in mind with what I was after in how the speakers sound.

Thanks Ruben! Unfortunately, I haven't heard the SV in their original form, so I can't make any comparison. However, Danny has heard them as well as having heard this crossover in Guy's original ported cabinets while doing the design, I think - might be close enough to get some thoughts?

Regarding the cabinet size/shape/placement question, I just took out a ruler and yep, you're pretty close (a little shy of 3 feet out from the wall). I did think very early on about doing the coax OB and the bottom sealed. Also, in a very early design of the cabinets (before the decision was made to do the stacked MDF thing), I went off the original sealed servo sub box plans, which would have made the cabinets about a half a foot less deep. In retrospect, although the proportions on these cabinets are very nice, maybe for this room, in this situation, I should have stuck harder to my guns and kept with the smaller/fatter cabinets. . . but that would have meant a wider front baffle and all that entails. . . but I digress; thus is the nature of living on the edge.

One of the details I made a point of in having these cabinets built was doing machine screw inserts for just about everything. A snag came up that ended up with the amps being secured with wood screws, but everything else is either bolts or machine screws, specifically to make it easy to take things apart and put them together again for tweaking/tinkering purposes.

I COULD be game to have another set of cabinets/baffles done if SOMEONE were POSSIBLY inclined to take on an experiment. I think I've got enough closet space left to make it work if/when I move the ETs off to a new happy home. . .

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 12:57 am »

On that note. . . anyone with Super-Vs ever spike the front only and play with the rake angle of the driver? Any effect on the sound? Just wondering out loud if tinkering with that is only applicable to panel drivers or if a cone driver would behave similarly.

. . . on another note (maybe best a Danny question), any thoughts on having the Super-V coax pointed straight up (like the O-3 or x-omni)?

HAL · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 01:31 am »

I have my Super-V's with front spikes only and I like their sound in that configuration. I did not need to change the angle after the spikes.

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 01:34 am »

HAL, cool! That's what I was after in asking. Any thoughts as to the presentation before/after? Thanks again!

HAL · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 01:40 am »

It was more a matter of frequency response than presentation that I remember. It has been awhile since I heard them without the front spikes.

When Danny showed this pair at RMAF he only used the front spikes.

ebag4 · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 02:03 am »

Quote from: HAL on 21 Apr 2011, 01:31 am

I have my Super-V's with front spikes only and I like their sound in that configuration. I did not need to change the angle after the spikes.

Hal,
Does that mean your SuperV is tilting greater than 3 degrees or did you speaker not have the 3 degree tilt built in?

Best,
Ed

HAL · « **Reply #27 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 02:11 am »

Ed,
This set of Super-V cabinets does not have the tilt. The spikes are the tilt.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #28 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 02:33 am »

HAL, I think I use the spikes on the front and back of that pair. I think I made some front feet or legs that fit under the front part of it that made the front spikes slightly higher than the rear spikes.

I slight tilt will have little effect on the sound with these compared to a speaker with the drivers separated.

HAL · « **Reply #29 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 02:45 am »

Danny,
Here is the in room picture of the Super-V's from RMAF2009. I set mine up just like this.

I did not see any rear spikes or feet other than the front spikes in the picture.

I did not want to mess with a setup that sounded that good!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #30 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 03:19 am »

Yeah there are spikes back there. Otherwise the side panels touch the floor.

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #31 on:** 21 Apr 2011, 03:22 am »

Thanks, guys! I'll have to try tilting them a bit to see what happens. I hadn't noticed that the original plans had a tilt built in.

Makes sense that the effect would be less than a more common multi-driver speaker, as I'm guessing a bit of it has to do with creating a few milliseconds delay between the sound from each of the drivers in relation to when it hits the listening position. Not so much an issue with the drivers mounted coaxially.

. . . I'm kind of feeling the idea of the OB coax with a sealed bottom - get the presentation attributes of the OB with the impact delivery of the sealed subs.

My room actually works pretty well in regards to bass loading - another of the reasons I liked the idea of going sealed with the subs. My room actually sucks out a little bit around 80Hz (in its current configuration), but has a very nice increasing curve all the way down from there. So, crossing a sub a little on the high side (or in this case going a little overboard with the overlap between the coax and the servos) smoothes out the dip and then lets the "house curve" do its thing. Has worked out pretty good for me so far.

HT cOz · « **Reply #32 on:** 13 May 2011, 01:18 pm »

Coming back to this thread as these speakers are very cool. Danny is there any chance that these could become an official kit?

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 May 2011, 03:19 pm »

Looks very cool. congrats.

A couple of questions, if I may?

What are the dimensions?

At what frequency did the p-audio end up crossing to the servos?

-Tony

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 May 2011, 03:44 pm »

Sorry I haven't had a lot of time lately. . . I really need to add an update to the top of the thread.

To answer T's questions:

About 15" wide, 24" deep, and 45" tall with the bases attached. Jason is the man to talk to for specific dimensions, as all I've got is a few 3D model renders we were looking at while in design. I've got a rough drawing that was intended to use more traditional construction (instead of laminating stacked MDF), that I think would have ended up a little taller, but with a smaller footprint. We were discussing the pros/cons of cabinet resonance on the other design before we moved in the direction of this one. These cabinets as built are like rocks - they don't move at all even under fairly high SPLs. I am in process of getting an experiment together to kind of test out the other design, though. . .

Danny would have to confirm, but I thought he said the crossover was designed to filter everything lower than 80Hz or so to protect the drivers. I've got them crossed via the plate amps on the servos to about where folks have been saying the Super V goes - about 120Hz

Cheers!

HT cOz · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 May 2011, 05:05 pm »

These must be some of the best HT speakers around! I know I keep sayong that but I would love to hear them in a top notch HT!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 May 2011, 05:07 pm »

There is no high pass filter on the P-Audio driver. It plays what it receives. However the impedance rise at FS is so high that it sees very little power in the bottom end. The impedance does drop back down to lower ranges on the other side of the drivers Fs. So a 20Hz or lower note can be a little bit of an issue for it. However, the driver is outputting 97db with only one watt. So if you much power on it to begin with then it is going to be really loud. Even with 10 watts or so it is very loud, and power at those levels won't hurt the driver regardless of how low the input signal might be (within reason).

I have been running an in line RCS filter with a .047 uF Sonicap Platinum in line with the power amp so that the amp never sees any low frequency signals to begin with. That works real well and allows me to send it big power on big dynamic passages without working the driver with any low notes.

One can also use a FMod filter if they want. They are really cheap and use small surface mount parts so the effect to the signal is fairly minimal. Those are second order filters and any of them that are designed to filter any range below 70Hz or so will work fine.

Any of those options are better than using a large passive cap value on the woofer.

On the servo sub controls I am getting the smoothest driver blend with the crossover control set at 100Hz.

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #37 on:** 22 May 2011, 05:28 am »

Danny, thanks for the correction.

I'm actually doing something similar with my amp setup - I've got the 80Hz filter enabled on my Virtue Sensation M901 amp (went sonicap with platinum bypasses upgrade from the factory) to keep my amp power to the coaxial focused on what it is using. I've then got the full-range line level outputs going to each of the servo bottom ends - left to left, right to right - to get my stereo bottom end, crossover and such adjusted and controlled on the plate amps.

. . . and they are most excellent HT speakers. The articulation and tactile nuances of the bass in the WotW pod scene is just plain fun.

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #38 on:** 4 Mar 2012, 05:52 pm »

Just thought I would post a reply for anyone who was following along with this project earlier on. I've retired them from service, and added some final thoughts to the top of the thread. Be warned - text got a little lengthy.

Cheers!

freerider · « **Reply #39 on:** 4 Mar 2012, 07:47 pm »

These sealed V's remind me of the JTR speakers. I listened to a 9.2 surround setup with all JTR's last night (and Seaton subs), and was impressed. Quite the visceral experience for movies.