Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs

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celebrat

Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« on: 13 Apr 2011, 11:46 pm »
I am attempting to build my own SuperVs as my first foray into speaker building. I am not a woodworker so this has been a real challenge for me. No photos at this time of my stuff guys ...too emabarassing :oops:
A couple of questions. Any Recommendations for joining the MDF pieces together. I have been gluing and trying Kreg pocketholes but MDF has been splitting. I am thinking gluing with drilling pilot holes and finish nails.

Also how should I attach the drivers to the MDF. I am concerened wood screws will come loose. What about Nuts and bolts w/ lockwashers. Any help appreciated

jparkhur

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #1 on: 14 Apr 2011, 01:16 am »
Glue and maybe pin nails, but the strongest part of your box is going to be the glue joint.

PDR

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Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #2 on: 14 Apr 2011, 01:47 am »
They make screws for MDF....in various lengths...They have a cut tip on them and it pilots the
mdf for you. I used these for mounting the drivers.....mine were one of the first Vs built...they are still rock solid.

Remember its just sheet goods.....if you screw it up try again, if it takes longer than you thought and
it seems like your never gonna finish, dont worry you will.....once you get them going the nitemare will fade away.... :thumb:

BrianH

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Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #3 on: 14 Apr 2011, 02:09 am »
From my experience not much beats good old dowels and titebond, the dowels I use for alignment and titebond 2 or better for the joint itself. Don;t forget weights or clamps to hold while it dries.

A good joint the joint will be stronger than the mdf itself.

To make it really easy you can buy a cheap dowel pin alignment metal peg for a buck or two, drill one hole, stick the alighment thing in the hole, press it against where you are going to make the other end of the dowel hole then drill using the  guide spot.  Easy peasy. :)

Old school woodworking actually works better than new fangled stuff often, so dont be afraid of what seems too simple to work.

Usually someone also asks about what kind of yellow or elmers glue to use, just get whats appropriate for your climate, water resistant works better in higher humidity. There are situations where poly is appropriate, make your own decision.  If you bring new wood/mdf home from the store be sure to let it "acclimate" a bit to where you are going to use it, wood shrinks and expands based on humidity.

Some tidbits anyway that work for me, but keep in mind lots of things that work for one person do not work for another, so let your own instincts choose from all available options.

Brian

celebrat

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #4 on: 14 Apr 2011, 10:45 am »
Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice. I can use all of it. I will try out the MDF screws and also dowels. I think I will make this "first frame" and build a secong after working out the bugs. PDR thanks for pointing out it is "just sheet goods" I think I was forgetting that. :duh: Try again and expect some mistakes.

sl_1800

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Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #5 on: 14 Apr 2011, 01:22 pm »
I just used glue on my Super V's and all the other speakers I have built.

Uncle Elvis

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Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #6 on: 14 Apr 2011, 02:53 pm »
I use Titebond wood glue for everything I build with wood. It sets up pretty fast, but not so fast that I can't reposition pieces if needed.
Dowels are great for lining up pieces and for a little extra strength. Another option would be biscuits, but you'd need to buy a biscuit joiner. I would not suggest pocket holes/screws for this application.
If you don't have any clamps, use screws and glue to hold it together. Just make sure that you pre-drill the all of the holes so the screw shank doesn't split the wood. Additionally, drill the hole a little bigger in the piece that you are attaching, because the threads will try to "jack up" the piece you are trying to attach. I usually make that hole about the size of the width of the outside dimension of the screw threads. After the glue dries, you can leave the screws in or remove them if you need to. Like others have mentioned, the glue joint is where the strength is. Not the mechanical fasteners.
« Last Edit: 16 Apr 2011, 07:08 pm by Uncle Elvis »

Syrah

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Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #7 on: 14 Apr 2011, 03:29 pm »
I'm in the same position. Zero woodworking experience and I have LS9 that I need to put together. I asked Danny this same question and he said to seal the corners of the MDF with a mix of wood glue and water, then to just glue and clamp the MDF together. My hesitance has made me seriously procrastinate this project.

nickd

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #8 on: 14 Apr 2011, 05:24 pm »
For securing the drivers to the MDF I use threaded inserts that accept a machine screw. They have a lot more grip and if you have to remove a driver you can reinstall with confidence not having to worry about stripping the screws in the soft MDF. if you have ever taken the drivers out of a AV123 box and re-installed you know what a pain stripped holes are :banghead:


ebag4

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #9 on: 14 Apr 2011, 06:29 pm »
I just used glue on my Super V's and all the other speakers I have built.
I don't recall seeing pics of your Super Vs. You know we have to have pics!!

With regard to the thread topic, use glue and clamps.  The glued sections will hold to the point of destroying the mdf if you were to ever try to take it apart.  On my V-1s I also used pegs for my side panels but that was because I decided to veneer all sides prior to mounting them to the base unit, the pegs were probably not necessary but I felt better knowing that they were there to elimate any issue of the veneered sides delaminating.

Best,
Ed

dmatt

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #10 on: 14 Apr 2011, 06:31 pm »
Nickd,

Thanks for the timely tip.  I am mounting two GR 12" woofer boxes in my ceiling and wanted something a little more positive than just wood screws on the driver since they will be overhead and the enclosures are already mounted behind the drywall.  Those look like EZLOK fasteners, right?
http://www.ezlok.com/InsertsWood/softWood.html

Syrah,

Did Danny mention why to seal the ends of the MDF?  Is this because you are using a sheet with exposed ends in the final product (SuperVs)?  I just use Titebond wood glue and clamp together (no pre-sealing necessary).  I thought that's what was supposed to be done since the glue gets absorbed into the MDF and forms a better joint when it hardens.

I learned that Titebond Original works well if you can spread the glue on both surfaces of your joint and clamp in 10-15 minutes or so.  But if you are gluing up a bigger pieces or multiple joints, the slower set time of Titebond III gives me more time to get glue on all the surfaces, fit them together, and clamp (20-25 minutes).

Also, I use basic drywall screws and a 12V DeWalt driver on my MDF if I want to screw and glue (belt and suspenders overkill).  I haven't had any problems with driving the screws after making a pilot hole and the MDF doesn't crumble or split.  I have heard that fancy decking screws (similar to what PDR described) will work without pilot holes because they are self tapping.  I just like the wide and deep threads of the drywall screws -- I assume they will grip well in crumbly MDF like they do in drywall.

Good discussion.

DM

sl_1800

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Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #11 on: 14 Apr 2011, 07:20 pm »
ebag4, The following link will show some of the early pics of my Super V's in the making.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91102.msg908446#msg908446  I'm actually working on them today, working on mounting the sub amp in the rear lower section of the sub cabinet like Tasar did with his.

I have too many projects going.

nickd

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #12 on: 15 Apr 2011, 04:19 pm »
dmatt,
Those are ezlok inserts in the picture. You may have to order them depending on where you live, but they will make your projects Pro-Grade. The next time you take out a driver of a $20,000 loudspeaker and find out they were only using drywall screws you'll laugh :lol: or cry :bawl: depending on who spent the 20 grand. When you DIY, you can do it right. 8)

ebag4

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #13 on: 15 Apr 2011, 04:56 pm »
ebag4, The following link will show some of the early pics of my Super V's in the making.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91102.msg908446#msg908446  I'm actually working on them today, working on mounting the sub amp in the rear lower section of the sub cabinet like Tasar did with his.

I have too many projects going.
Steve,
Sorry for the pics request, I should have remembered your coax mounting (looks great BTW!) since I commented on it in your build thread. :duh:

Best,
Ed

 

mpauly

Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #14 on: 15 Apr 2011, 08:49 pm »
For fasteners and stuff like threaded inserts, I like to order from McFeeley's.  They have a great selection, great customer service and often have $1 (or free) shipping which makes ordering smaller batches tolerable.  Nothing worse than buying a 25 or 50 pack of screws for $5 and paying an additional $7 to ship it.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/threaded-inserts

Michael

Uncle Elvis

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Re: Mounting Drivers and gluiing MDF pieces in SuperVs
« Reply #15 on: 16 Apr 2011, 07:57 pm »
Like others have mentioned, threaded inserts are great. I use them all of the time to mount stuff. Here's a few tips that I have learned about using them:

Drill the hole that the insert in going into with a drill bit that is 1/64" larger than the body of the insert to make space for the wood as it reforms when the threads cut into it. For example, I use 1/4-20 brass inserts for many of my projects. The body diameter is 3/8", but I use a 25/64" drill bit to drill the hole. It's a good idea to mark off the hole depth on the drill bit with a wrap of masking tape, so you don't drill too deep. Make the hole about a 1/16th deeper if you can. This allows you set the insert just below the surface of the wood which is important if the insert raises the surface slightly when installed. The surface can be sanded flat again without sanding off the top of your insert.
If you have access to a drill press, use it. If you are using a hand drill, use a small square to line up your drill bit as you start the hole to ensure that it's straight.
Lastly, put a small chamfer on the hole before installing the insert. Don't use a power drill if you are using mdf, just do a couple of twists by hand with a chamfer bit.
To install, I use a 1/4-20 bolt with the head cut off and a couple of nuts threaded and tightened against each other. Do an internet search for, "install threaded insert" for many examples of jigs, fixtures and tools. Or use the installation tool(s) shown on the McFeely's link in mpauly's post. Again use a drill press if you can. On big pieces I use my hand drill with the same bolt using lots of care to make sure it's going in straight.
Some folks like to put a little bit of adhesive on the threads. I never have and have never had any back out or loosen. It's up to you.

It's pretty easy after you do a couple. Practice on some scrap a few times and you'll be ready to go.

Best regards,

Ken