How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?

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bummrush

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #20 on: 23 Mar 2011, 11:32 pm »
100 db you'll need anew ear before a sub.  Why so freaking loud?

Nuance

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #21 on: 23 Mar 2011, 11:54 pm »
That's actually not that loud concerning movies.  Movies can have a lot of quiet parts, then crazy loud dynamic parts.  With the new lossless audio codecs certain sound effects (such as gunshots and explosions) are sometimes intended to hit over 100dB to give a more realistic experience.  I don't recommend watching an entire movie at 100dB or more, but a few quick loud scenes shouldn't kill anyone's ears.

P.S.  It's extremely easy to hit 100 dB in the bass regions when watching a movie. 

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #22 on: 24 Mar 2011, 12:05 am »
Terry, just get a Parasound P7.  Come on, you know you want to! :D

Jeeze...you Parasound guys... :roll:  :wink:

I do miss my Parasound preamp sometimes.  It's just that even the P7 is missing one HUGE thing for me...TUBES!!

Sorry guys, I'm a tube guy now.  I'll never (I think) go without them again.  But if I did, a P7 is number 1 on my list.



Terry,
Thats right, I forgot the preamp has HT bypass just not enough bass management to help out.  I understand now, thanks for clarifying.  I had similar troubles with the towers.  I also was not able to achieve as flat a room response as I did with my previous sierras.  With the towers running full range all the time now, EQing the sub was tougher.

Can you ellaborate on what you meant about the duals collapsing your soundstage?

Thats too bad the the SM didnt work out (unless or course it was behind the couch).  I also wonder as you do if any sub will fix the issue.....hmmm.  All you can do is buy more subs to try :D

I hope either way, you get things dialed in to your liking!

B

To elaborate on the collapsing of my sound stage:

I can't figure this out with any certainty, but something is VERY different when both subs were on the front wall between the speakers.  The sound was thicker sounding in the lower midrange.  There was a significant decrease in separation of instruments and the sound stage seemed shorter and more narrow.  I lost that large, open, airy sound from the speakers.  That's about the best I can describe it. 

I too am worried that no sub will fix the issue.  The only thing I can say is that my PB13-Ultra sounded pretty darn good on the front wall on the inside of my left speaker.  I was talking to Brandon about that on the phone just a little while ago.  He heard the PB13 there and agrees that it was working very well.  I can get the Submersive to measure just as good if not better, but it doesn't sound good there at all.  What's even more strange is that I can get it measuring basically the same behind the listening position and it sounds completely different.  I'm listening to music with it behind me right now and it sounds amazingly good.  Maybe the best I've ever heard. 

I'll get it figured out.  One day.  :)

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #23 on: 24 Mar 2011, 12:11 am »
That's actually not that loud concerning movies.  Movies can have a lot of quiet parts, then crazy loud dynamic parts.  With the new lossless audio codecs certain sound effects (such as gunshots and explosions) are sometimes intended to hit over 100dB to give a more realistic experience.  I don't recommend watching an entire movie at 100dB or more, but a few quick loud scenes shouldn't kill anyone's ears.

P.S.  It's extremely easy to hit 100 dB in the bass regions when watching a movie.

That's exactly right.  I don't think the overall movie was loud at all.  In that particular scene, all that was happening was a rocket blasting off.  The scene was basically all bass and nothing else.  It was my speakers trying to reproduce whatever low frequency at 100db. 

I wonder what the db level was when we watched the same scene running the dual Submersives...maybe 125db?  :icon_lol:  The room sure was shaking and the kids looked scared!  :thumb:

Saturn94

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Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #24 on: 24 Mar 2011, 02:37 am »
TJHUB,

Just out of curiosity, if the SVS was working well, why did you get rid of it?

I've found my SVS 16-46PC+ works very well with my HT2-TLs (at least in my room).

I had a fellow AudioCircle member over this evening to hear my HT2-TLs (he hasn't heard Salks before) and he wanted to hear them full range without the sub.  Even with some of the organ music he played, I was surprised how well the HT2-TL held up.  It wasn't a good as having the sub, but it was no slouch either.  Of course with movies and their sometimes scary bass effects, a good sub is a must for me!

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #25 on: 24 Mar 2011, 03:07 am »
TJHUB,

Just out of curiosity, if the SVS was working well, why did you get rid of it?

I've found my SVS 16-46PC+ works very well with my HT2-TLs (at least in my room).

I had a fellow AudioCircle member over this evening to hear my HT2-TLs (he hasn't heard Salks before) and he wanted to hear them full range without the sub.  Even with some of the organ music he played, I was surprised how well the HT2-TL held up.  It wasn't a good as having the sub, but it was no slouch either.  Of course with movies and their sometimes scary bass effects, a good sub is a must for me!

The PB13-Ultra is an amazing all around sub.  It was a huge step up in sound quality from my previous sub, a 20-39 PC+.  SVS's have always been good at the low stuff, but they really seemed to suffer above 50Hz.  The PB13-Ultra was decent.  The problem was that I always heard a boxy sound from the sub.  It was like I could hear the inside of the box when listening to music.  This caused me to look for a sub that was sealed and could keep up with the PB13 for HT.  Enter the Submersive HP.

The Submersive has no boxy sound whatsoever.  It performs flawlessly for music when it the right place in my room.  I just wish that same spot worked for HT. 

I have actually decided that if my buyer this Saturday falls through, I'm going to keep the Submersive and work with it some more.  What I hear for music is so good, I need to figure out if I can get the HT side better by finding yet another alternative spot in my room.


Saturn94

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Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #26 on: 24 Mar 2011, 03:36 pm »
The PB13-Ultra is an amazing all around sub.  It was a huge step up in sound quality from my previous sub, a 20-39 PC+.  SVS's have always been good at the low stuff, but they really seemed to suffer above 50Hz.  The PB13-Ultra was decent.  The problem was that I always heard a boxy sound from the sub.  It was like I could hear the inside of the box when listening to music.  This caused me to look for a sub that was sealed and could keep up with the PB13 for HT.  Enter the Submersive HP.

The Submersive has no boxy sound whatsoever.  It performs flawlessly for music when it the right place in my room.  I just wish that same spot worked for HT. 

I have actually decided that if my buyer this Saturday falls through, I'm going to keep the Submersive and work with it some more.  What I hear for music is so good, I need to figure out if I can get the HT side better by finding yet another alternative spot in my room.

I hope you're able to find a way to get the best of both HT and music.  Is there a way you could switch between two subs, one optimized for music and another optimized for HT, perhaps using some kind of switch box?

Fortunately, in my case my sub location works very well for both in my room

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #27 on: 24 Mar 2011, 04:14 pm »
I hope you're able to find a way to get the best of both HT and music.  Is there a way you could switch between two subs, one optimized for music and another optimized for HT, perhaps using some kind of switch box?

Fortunately, in my case my sub location works very well for both in my room

I'm certain I'll figure this out.  I have actually considered a second sub for music only behind the couch.  I was thinking a Rythmik 12" for music and keeping the Submersive (or similar monster) for HT in my "normal" position. 

ratso

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #28 on: 26 Mar 2011, 12:24 am »
the rythmik 15" subs have that cool dual input amp (optional). you could input your 2 channel into the sub(s) and dial them in for music. then with the HT input, just dial that channel up a little "hotter" using your AVR's bass management.

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #29 on: 26 Mar 2011, 03:06 am »
the rythmik 15" subs have that cool dual input amp (optional). you could input your 2 channel into the sub(s) and dial them in for music. then with the HT input, just dial that channel up a little "hotter" using your AVR's bass management.

I really wanted to go with Rythmik subs, but after owning subs like the PB13-Ultra and Submersive HP, the Rythmiks are just too underpowered. 

I have my future setup all figured out as the buyer for my sub is coming tomorrow.  I REALLY hope I don't regret selling the Submersive.  After listening to it today, I was wishing the buyer would cancel...

sirbrine

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Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #30 on: 26 Mar 2011, 04:28 am »
Have you considered getting a pair of Rythmik Vented Subs (FV15HP)?

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #31 on: 26 Mar 2011, 12:28 pm »
Have you considered getting a pair of Rythmik Vented Subs (FV15HP)?

No.  I figured out prefer the sound of sealed subs.  It took me 25 years to figure that out.  With today's big amps and very capable drivers, sealed subs for HT perform very well. 

sirbrine

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Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #32 on: 26 Mar 2011, 05:51 pm »
The reason for my question was that I saw some comments by Brian Ding about the vented subs where he said the sound quality was very close to the sealed versions (although he still preferred the sealed subs).

But I certainly understand your comments.  I have two Rythmik F15HP sealed subs because I wanted the best sound quality.


bigbwb

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Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #33 on: 26 Mar 2011, 08:12 pm »
No.  I figured out prefer the sound of sealed subs.  It took me 25 years to figure that out.  With today's big amps and very capable drivers, sealed subs for HT perform very well.

What do you have in mind for subs going forward?  I know you said the Rythmiks lack power for you, would duals not be enough?  I'm sure we will be chatting about it next Saturday as well:)

B

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #34 on: 27 Mar 2011, 02:47 am »
What do you have in mind for subs going forward?  I know you said the Rythmiks lack power for you, would duals not be enough?  I'm sure we will be chatting about it next Saturday as well:)

B

At this point, I'll be going cheap.  There is a DIY project in my near future.  I'll tell you all about it next Saturday.  :wink:



Nuance

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #35 on: 27 Mar 2011, 06:19 am »
At this point, I'll be going cheap.  There is a DIY project in my near future.  I'll tell you all about it next Saturday.  :wink:




It's a doozy! :)

bigbwb

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Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #36 on: 27 Mar 2011, 02:04 pm »
At this point, I'll be going cheap.  There is a DIY project in my near future.  I'll tell you all about it next Saturday.  :wink:

I thought it might be DIY:)  I have a feeling Patrick's behind this :thumb:

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #37 on: 27 Mar 2011, 03:00 pm »
I thought it might be DIY:)  I have a feeling Patrick's behind this :thumb:

You do know what a bad influence he is. :wink:

bigbwb

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Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #38 on: 27 Mar 2011, 04:36 pm »
You do know what a bad influence he is. :wink:
Thats for sure!

You two will soon be attending the BHA meetings.
(bass head anonymous)

Hi, My name is Terry and I have a problem......
 :green:

TJHUB

Re: How far can the Seas W18 be pushed in the HT2-TL's?
« Reply #39 on: 27 Mar 2011, 04:51 pm »
Thats for sure!

You two will soon be attending the BHA meetings.
(bass head anonymous)

Hi, My name is Terry and I have a problem......
 :green:

Yeah.  Isn't Patrick the President of BHA?  :D