[SteveFord]

Okay, hopefully, I'll hear back by the time I get back from work.

[bdp24]

I just moved from S. California to Vancouver, Washington, and will no longer have a room big enough for my Tympani T-IV's, so may be selling them. They have been refurbished (including the voice coil wiring), are in perfect working order, and have the light grill cloth. If interested (there's nothing like them, except the T-IVa!), you can reach me at ericjerde@gmail.com.

[SteveFord]

Mojoaudio,
Wendell is on a road trip at the moment so call Magnepan and ask for the service department.
bdp24,
You'll have more success if you stick an ad in the Classified Section.

[bdp24]

Right Steve, I'll do that. Mentioning it here was not in place of an ad, just an advance notice.

[Point source]

I just moved from S. California to Vancouver, Washington, and will no longer have a room big enough for my Tympani T-IV's, so may be selling them. They have been refurbished (including the voice coil wiring), are in perfect working order, and have the light grill cloth. If interested (there's nothing like them, except the T-IVa!), you can reach me at ericjerde@gmail.com.

Don't do it, you won't get anything sounding like those again.
I have the tweeter panel separated and placed directly in front of the bass panels and that works for me.

[SwamisCat]

I have a question for Wendell, Steve...

In the various manufacturer literature on toe in for the three and twenty series I have seen somewhat conflicting literature.

Specifically, the manuals on the 20.7 show the panels aimed straight at the listener. This would effectively place the bass side and tweeter side exactly even if one was to take a string from listener to panel.  But then in the latest on-site description of the speaker, there is a specific recommendation to make sure the bass side of the 20,7 panel needs to be closer than the tweeter side for optimal time alignment. This implies greater toe in for tweets in, and less toe in for tweets out.

My specific question is ....  does this same recommendation now apply for the 3.7i speaker?  The manual shows the tweeters aimed dead on at the listener (meaning the tweeter is about a half to full inch closer than the bass side). Is this correct, or does the same logic hold that the 3.7i woofers should be closer for proper time alignment?

How does Wendell recommend the 3.7i be aimed? How does he aim them at shows or in listening test?

Thanks in advance for passing this on.  I could call Wendell myself, but thought it would be best to answer it publicly for everyone interested at once.

[SteveFord]

Will do.
I asked him about measurements at the shows a few years back and he said he just sets things up by eye.

[bdp24]

Don't do it, you won't get anything sounding like those again.
I have the tweeter panel separated and placed directly in front of the bass panels and that works for me.

Since posting that, I got into the Planar Speaker Asylum, found the threads by Satie about replacing the T-IV mids with NEO 8's, separating the panels, wall-loading the bass panels, etc., and am going to give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, there is a local interested buyer who's waiting to hear from me!

[SteveFord]

Drumroll, please.
And the answer is.......

I suggest that customers follow the instructions rather than placing too much on the drawings in the manuals. In all .7 models, the bass/midrange should be an inch or so closer to the listener than the tweeter. This means a much more radical toe-in if the tweeters are on the inside.

Keep in mind that all .7 models with tweeters on the inside or outside have different pluses and minuses (as explained on the website) compared to all previous Maggies.

[SwamisCat]

Thanks, that was fast!

That is indeed how I prefer them, so it is nice to eliminate that nagging fear that I am doing something wrong. The extra toe in with tweets in solidifies the image, tightens it and gives it more depth and body. 

I tend to spend most of my listening time with tweets in, but do admit that I LOVE the tonality of the speaker with tweets out, at the expense of a more diffuse image. 

My current set up is in a large room with the speakers at least 5 feet from the first side wall reflection, tweets about 6 feet from front wall and woofer side about 7 feet from FW. Today I am running it with a pair of DWMs and a sub, but it actually sounds great without the additional bass support.

Next purchase is a set of Mye stands....

[Maritan]

Drumroll, please.
And the answer is.......

I suggest that customers follow the instructions rather than placing too much on the drawings in the manuals. In all .7 models, the bass/midrange should be an inch or so closer to the listener than the tweeter. This means a much more radical toe-in if the tweeters are on the inside.

Keep in mind that all .7 models with tweeters on the inside or outside have different pluses and minuses (as explained on the website) compared to all previous Maggies.

And if you have the tweeters out, how would one get the bass/ midrange panel closer to the listener? Would that mean the speakers are facing straight forward without any toe in?

[SwamisCat]

With the tweets out, the bass panel starts out closer to the listener. They key now is to get it so it is only an inch or two closer.  This involves toe in to reduce the closeness.

Put another way, if you start with the speakers facing you in proper location so that a string is equidistant from your head to the bass and tweeter side (this isn't a thought experiment, I strongly recommend Maggie owners actually do this), then if tweets are out, you adjust toe in so that bass is an inch or two closer as measured using the string. The end result is that tweets in will have more toe in than tweets out.  But not a lot more.

[SwamisCat]

By the way, I should add that minor changes in toe in make a HUGE difference in frequency balance, especially in the upper midrange or mid high crossover range.  Getting the mid/bass slightly closer (with tweets in) brings up the Mids if your speaker is well away from side walls. With side wall proximity, this may not be true though because of the reflection (the less toe in the more reflection off the SW).

I am a big fan of using a radio shack spl meter or phone app and a test track to measure frequency response.  It is easy to measure the response straight on, then adjust it with an inch or two of toe in each way and see what it does to the upper Mids and lower treble. Of course it also affects the image depth, sound staging and such. In my room, "radical" toe in with tweets in gives smooth, yet slowly declining frequency response on the 3.7i.  I also have an old pair of IIIa's and they need to be set up slightly different, mainly to tame the hyper aggressive upper Mids.

[Maritan]

Thanks for the response. Got to try this out one of these weekends.

[SteveFord]

I have a hatchling Savannah Monitor set up in the living room so I haven't been using the 3.7s much but the tweeters in/bass angled closer 1" is how the 1.7s ended up just doing it by ear.

[rikirk]

It's finally time to thank the community for all the great deal of information about the magic world of Maggies. I think I absorbed every single post and learnt a big deal out of so many generous contributions. In my awkward 28x21' room I ended up with tweeter in (it was hard to convince myself about that) and 1" tweeter further from the listening position as well. In my never ending quest for the best placement I use the same tool of string and SPL empirical measures now at 100Hz (76db), 1kHz (80dB) and 9kHz (47dB). I found (even harder to digest) the Acoustic Resonators with filters and diffuser having a big impact in mitigating the resonance due to the windows on the front wall with typical fireplace hole in the middle and ubiquitous flat TV on top. Still a lot of work to do, but I am in love with the 1.7i (it was so hard for me to position them I almost went Emerald Physics, but now I am glad I did not - fact that Mr. Wendell does it successfully by the eye every time tells at length about all his technical knowledge). So at the end they are 8 feet apart measured from the inside bar, 7 feet away from the front wall (windows) and almost 9 from the sweet spot. Another huge improvement (bass response and imaging) was raising the speaker on a 1" maple base supported by 3 ball bearings each. Finally, they are tilted forward using two spacers for the top screw and a single one at the bottom. Riccardo

[Habs Fan]

I'm curious how the center ch. is derived for the 3 ch stereo demo's at shows.Is it simply the pro logic II center info sent from the Bryston processor to the center speaker?Is there any processing done to the left and right speakers?

[Maritan]

I have a hatchling Savannah Monitor set up in the living room so I haven't been using the 3.7s much but the tweeters in/bass angled closer 1" is how the 1.7s ended up just doing it by ear.

I do remember that you like your reptiles. Dogs! They drool and they rule. 

I have my 1.7s tweeters out right now, but looks like I have some experimenting to do this weekend.

[SteveFord]

Yeah, and they shed hair all over the place but I guess that's part of the deal.
Details may or may not be released about the Bryston processor/Magnepan stuff. 
Sorry, I tried.
Speaking of dogs and reptiles, time to take care of the zoo.

[Hear Clifford Brown]

After reading posts 285 through 295 I checked the toe in on my 3.7i speakers using the Bosch GLM 15 laser measure.  Indispensable tool for positioning your speakers.  Anyway, the center of the mid/bass panel was 2" farther away than the tweeter, which surprised me since they appeared toed in.  I toed them in more by keeping the inner front footer of the Mye stand stationary while moving the outer front closer.  Now the center of the mid/bass panel is 1" closer than the center of tweeter panel and it really does sound better.  The soundstage seems more completely detached from the physical location of the speakers, and it deepened and widened some.  Tonality seems more natural now for sure.