[Hebrew Hammer]

got the pair of 2 x 4 's up on the back wall today, tomorrow I'll get the side mr. t's up and will post pics... and then the small 2 x 2 mr t's behind my speakers...

[dBe]

got the pair of 2 x 4 's up on the back wall today, tomorrow I'll get the side mr. t's up and will post pics... and then the small 2 x 2 mr t's behind my speakers...

Cool!  Keep us posted and let us all know how they work.

Dave

[Hebrew Hammer]

while stuff is drying in the shop... I took sometime and put of some diffusers... this room has come a long way in a short time...

[Hebrew Hammer]

a couple quick notes on listening so far...

all secondary timing and reflection issues are gone as far as I can tell.. focus, attack.. and decay for days... more air, wider stage and better placement...

and prolly the coolest part of it for me, is that the room no longer exists 

[dBe]

a couple quick notes on listening so far...

all secondary timing and reflection issues are gone as far as I can tell.. focus, attack.. and decay for days... more air, wider stage and better placement...

and prolly the coolest part of it for me, is that the room no longer exists 

Randy, that is sweet to our eyes. We hope that you don't get rained on.

Seriously, glad to see that you are happy with the results.  Properly placed diffusion reigns supreme with open baffle speakers, doesn't it?

Dave... I'm sure Greg will check in, too.

[ADD]

First of all your small chair to the side looks just like mine in Daves laboratory. Do you have an assistant also.
The room certainly has the Coolness factor.If nothing
else to me that is very important.
I have been watching Dave improve rooms, studios,businesses for over 10 years now and I never get tired of a happy ending.
Were very happy with the results so far.
Im especially pleased about the fact that the room disappears.
As a very smart person I know always says(cant mention his name)
The room is the most important interconnect.
Now for phase II
Igor

[tasar]

What's being used in those front corners and why ? Could you elaborate on your placement/product approach ? Dave, can we expect some OB general benchmarks soon ?

[jtwrace]

I'd love to see an in room FR of that setup. 

[dBe]

Dave, can we expect some OB general benchmarks soon ?

Please define your term "general benchmarks."  I want to be sure that we are on the same page.

Dave

[Hebrew Hammer]

What's being used in those front corners and why ? Could you elaborate on your placement/product approach ? Dave, can we expect some OB general benchmarks soon ?

I took 1inch Owens Corning 703 and cut them into 17 x 16.5 x 16.5 triangles and stacked them floor to ceiling... I then took 1 x 3 inch poplar and ripped a 45 degree cut right down the center and used the cut side to hold the 703 tight in the corners on both sides as well as added cross bracing.. I then stretched grill cloth across it and ran staples down the poplar... I will hide the edges with half round once it's warm enough to paint in the shop   

what I gained from this is a way more even bass response across the stage along with micro dynamics.. it was the first thing I did to the room.. and after that is was absorption at first reflections

Corner bass traps:






First reflection absorbers:





 

[Hebrew Hammer]

And, I'm not in the least bit a acoustic ninja like dave and greg or Pape and the crew at GIK... but I tend to believe there isn't a definitive solution for all rooms, just a loose set of guidelines that may or may not work in your specific room with your specific equipment..

at the end of the day, audio comes down to 2 aspects.. "PERCEPTION" and "PREFERENCE". We are all trying to create our own perception of realistic playback that is to our own person preference.. nothing more..

[dBe]

I'd love to see an in room FR of that setup.

Jason, IRFR only tells part of the story when it come to quantitative analysis of a qualitative target.  Measurements as usually done with a mic and measurement software tell what is going on a single point in time, a specifiic point in space and at a specific frequency.  These type of measurements do not tell much about dynamic power response or take into consideration the HRTF involved in binaural perception as well as many other factors that are unique in hearing and perception.  IRFR can be, and typically is, skewed by the problems inherent in gating floor, ceiling and wall reflection effects.  IME (I've probably measured 50 rooms or so) measurements taken at a listening position have to be an average of about 12 readings taken with the LP used as the control locus to effectively identify and eliminate the small nulls either side of the bounce issues.  YMMV. 

Measurements (in my opinion) are a means to an end, but not the end in itself.

Of course this is the subjectivist in me speaking to a scientist like yourself.  I completely understand that peoples lives can hang on science.  I live in a blissful ignorance of "how does it sound".   

Remember, I am the guy that makes power cables, eh 

It's all good.   

Dave

[Hebrew Hammer]

And... we can have a very similar FR response if not close to being identical and have very different sounding rigs...

[dBe]

And... we can have a very similar FR response if not close to being identical and have very different sounding rigs...

Yeah, somehow an FFT and the brain think a bit differently.

Dave

[Hebrew Hammer]

Yeah, somehow an FFT and the brain think a bit differently.

Dave

power response, directivity... etc....etc... all come into play and any variation no matter how minor will result in differences in playback.. that's why we have a million flavors of audio goodness and is why there never will be the perfect rig nor a group of people that will agree or like 1 said application...

that's the beauty of audio   

[dBe]

power response, directivity... etc....etc... all come into play and any variation no matter how minor will result in differences in playback.. that's why we have a million flavors of audio goodness and is why there never will be the perfect rig nor a group of people that will agree or like 1 said application...

that's the beauty of audio   

Randy, don't you mean the beauty and the beast?   

My favorite example is two identical loudspeakers with identical (or as close as can be to that unachieveable goal) frequency responses: one with a 4th order crossover and the other with a 2nd order crossover.  Virtually identical transfer functions and completely different in character.  Easy enough to understand, hard to explain and/or quantify as a whole.

Human aural perception, especially when properly trained, has incredible S/N discrimination as well as anomaly rejection capabilities.  That is one of the reasons that intelligence agencies use computers to search for trends in communication and specially trained humans to hear through the noise quicker than they can do enhancement algorithms when time is of the essence.

A great experiment of the ability of the human to hear what machines can't is to set a mic up in a room and record a pin dropping to the floor.  More often than not, the ear will detect it and the mic will not unless the gain is unbelieveably high and the sound of the pin is essentially lost in the noise floor of the equipment.  Audio parlor tricks can be fun! 

Dave

[ADD]

All kidding aside I bet Britney Spears sounds fantastic.
Still like the little chair.
Igor

[jtwrace]

Britney Spears

 

[tasar]

"IR" "FR" ughhhhhh. Dave.....benchmarks as in "basics".....start with a sticky for the endless alphabet soup. Then, some simple protocol for one beginning a "cure" to soundwave aberrations. Am I to believe one simply throws things at the walls and trys(hopes) for the best ? Is this pseudo -science and not "chemistry" ? How about a simple "to do" list with a directive and material option. Geez, this is starting to sound like A-U-D-I-O.......

[dBe]

"IR" "FR" ughhhhhh. Dave.....benchmarks as in "basics".....start with a sticky for the endless alphabet soup. Then, some simple protocol for one beginning a "cure" to soundwave aberrations. Am I to believe one simply throws things at the walls and trys(hopes) for the best ? Is this pseudo -science and not "chemistry" ? How about a simple "to do" list with a directive and material option. Geez, this is starting to sound like A-U-D-I-O.......

OK, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.  I'm going to do a room treatment 101 sticky that everyone is welcome to post to so that we can discuss this whole thing.

There are MUST DO things in room treatment IMO.  Thousands of books and artivles have been written on the topic and ther was an improper assumption (by yours truly) that 99% of the people that come to AC were familiar with the basic tenets of acoustical treatment.  My bad.

I promise not to throw things around like HRTF - head related transfer function - in my replies without definitions.  I get to typing and it just kind of flows out of me, typos and all.   

I'm slammin' in the shop, so I'll post the sticky later today.

Dave