[Rob Babcock]

Well, I'm sorry to say I snarfed it down before I could get a picture!   But I made a pretty tasty burger in the SVS for lunch today.  Couple days ago after making a burger to sautee/fry I pattied the remaining beef into two 1/4 lb patties, which I seasoned with S&P and vac sealed.  Then today I heated the bath to 133 and dropped them in, setting a time for 2h 20m.  That might seem like a long time but I wanted to pasteurize them since it was store bought burger.  As soon as the timer when off I headed two pans on the stove over fairly high heat.  Into one I put a lightly buttered bun and cooked it long enough to toast it nicely.  Then I hit the pan with Pam, set the two patties in and placed the other hot pan on top.  After about 30 seconds I flipped 'em and put the pan back on panini-press style.  After about 45 seconds of sear I topped one with provelone, stacked the patties and cheesed the top on.  A bit of onions and voile! 

The burger was freakin' amazing!   I love a nice medium rare burger but never eat mine that way with store bought burger for food safety reasons.  With sous vide the meat can be cooked to pasteurize it while leaving it nice and rare.  The finished patties were a perfect edge to edge med rare but with a very nice thin crust.  Another big plus was that there was very, very little grease and mess due to practically no fat in the pan and the very short sear.

I love cooking a burger over lump charcoal, but when I can't do that I think sous vide will be my go-to technique!   And even with charcoal I can see the advantages of sv'ing them first for safety.

[jrebman]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the update.  When I saw your original post on the SVS, I thought it might make a nice burger, so was glad to see this.  Still trying to convince my wife that we should get one of these.

-- Jim

[Rob Babcock]

It was a lot of money in a way, but tell her to just be happy it's not an amp, DAC or a new set of speakers!   I've cooked something in it almost every day- I love it!  BTW, there's also a smaller unit called the Sous Vide Supreme Demi.  It's just $299 with free shipping.  I think the larger unit is nice but if you're just cooking for one or two the Demi should be just as good.

[Cheerwino]

Yum! I love my Sous Vide Supreme. Got it right when it came out and used it every day for a while. I still use it several times a week. The wife was skeptical at first (the same look I get about a new amp) but now the family loves it.

I'm no gourmet so mostly I use it to make things easier (I'm the family cook). I developed a lazy man's method to cook mini burgers. Preheat SVS to 140 or so. Take frozen tube of ground beef (how they come packaged from our local farm), remove plastic and vacuum seal with bit of salt and pepper. Plunk into SVS for several hours to all day (whenever I think about it). When ready to cook, preheat pan, remove cooked meat from SVS and package. Carefully slice off little rounds about 3/4" thick to make little burgers, add salt and pepper, sear in hot pan with oil for a few seconds each side and serve.

Not as good as Rob's I'm sure, but not bad for little prep work.

[Rob Babcock]

Probably every bit as good as mine.  That's good thinking!  It would be less work to slice 'em off a roll than to patty a bunch ahead.  Mainly I just do it that way because it's generally just me I'm cooking for.

BTW, I have a rack of baby back ribs in the SVS right now- they'll be ready to eat tomorrow nite.

[zybar]

Guys,

I haven't personally used a sous vide machine, but have watched it being used on Iron Chef America.  In that show, they are able to cook food in minutes, not hours or days...is that just TV magic or can you really cook things quickly?

I am very interested in getting a sous vide machine, but I don't want everything to take as long as you guys are talking about.

George

[Rob Babcock]

Yes, you can cook some things very quickly.  A steak can be cooked fairly quickly, and things like fish and shellfish are always cooked very briefly.  While many people would probably also cook burgers faster than I do, I err on the side of safety.  Just for my own consumption any supermarket-purchased ground beef is going to cooked long enough to pasteurize it.

That said, some things really can't be cooked quickly.  The physiology of meat dictates that baby back ribs, short ribs or beef brisket will require long cooking if you want the meat to be tender.  The nice thing is that you can cook those things at a low enough temp that 1) long cooking won't dry them out and 2) you can have falling of the bone ribs that are still medium rare if you like.  Also, most things can hold for several hours once they're done- a big bonus if you're cooking them while at work and aren't really sure when you'll be home.  You can also hold food in the bath while you finish other dishes, entertain or wait for your guests to arrive.

Shrimp, scallops and fish are good things to try sous vide if you're in a rush.

[zybar]

Yes, you can cook some things very quickly.  A steak can be cooked fairly quickly, and things like fish and shellfish are always cooked very briefly.  While many people would probably also cook burgers faster than I do, I err on the side of safety.  Just for my own consumption any supermarket-purchased ground beef is going to cooked long enough to pasteurize it.

That said, some things really can't be cooked quickly.  The physiology of meat dictates that baby back ribs, short ribs or beef brisket will require long cooking if you want the meat to be tender.  The nice thing is that you can cook those things at a low enough temp that 1) long cooking won't dry them out and 2) you can have falling of the bone ribs that are still medium rare if you like.  Also, most things can hold for several hours once they're done- a big bonus if you're cooking them while at work and aren't really sure when you'll be home.  You can also hold food in the bath while you finish other dishes, entertain or wait for your guests to arrive.

Shrimp, scallops and fish are good things to try sous vide if you're in a rush.

Thanks Rob.

George

[Philistine]

I've been looking at Sous Vide for the last few months, but reluctant to put too much money into it......
Your threads on this Rob reawakened my curiosity so, like an anal audiophool researched this and have the following plan:

Vacuum Sealer - picked up one from Woot for $20 a few weeks ago.
Water Bath - I'm going to use a crock pot and control the water temp with a controller from Auber Instruments, currently about $165.  I bought a temperature controller from Auber a few years ago for my Rancilio espresso machine and it's worked great.  The crock pot plugs into the Auber controller and regulates the water temperature, a temp probe connects to the Auber and is immersed in the water.  Not as elegant as the stand alone solution, but utilizes what I already have available.

So, this is another approach to achieving the same results - if anyone is interested I'll post back on how it works out....

I did see a website topic on Sous Vide burgers, they used a vacuum sealer and a ziplock bag in which they squeezed out the air by compressing the bag.  They concluded, from the finished burger, that the ziplock route was better as the vacuum sealed burger was too compressed.   

On the WSJ blog on Sous Vide they claim this is a guy thing, and mostly mathematicians and scientists doing this 

[jrebman]

Hi Phill,

Very cool -- keep us posted, or maybe start a new thread?

You wrote:

On the WSJ blog on Sous Vide they claim this is a guy thing, and mostly mathematicians
and scientists doing this

No wonder it got my attention .  And why the crock pot and external temp controller solution seems even more fun.

-- Jim

[Rob Babcock]

I have a Foodsaver and a vac sealer that came with my SVS but even so I almost bought that one from Woot!   I love Woot, they have so many good deals.  And I will confess I have 30-40 Woot shirts, too.

There is something to be said about the ziplock being better than/as good as vac sealing for some things.  A thin patty definitely gets a bit squished around the edges- for that a baggie would probably work better but I've yet to try it.  However, last night I made another burger that was thicker.  I had bought a 5 lb roll of ground chuck with the idea of ripping off the mini-burger SV technique above.  I didn't want to SV the whole 5 pounds at once, though, so I sliced a patty off about 1.25" thick.  Then I seasoned and vacced it.  It turns out the thicker patty doesn't seem to get as "compressed", although I still plan to try the looser baggie.  At any rate, I ended up cooking the patty for three and a half hours as I had to duck out of the house to run to the store towards the end of the cooking.

The burger was finished the same way, two hot pans stacked panini-style.  The extra thickness was great!  The burger really looked raw this time with so much beefiness, but the taste was amazing!  It's surprising how little liquid bleeds out if you cut it, but it's still very juicy- SV cooking seems to combine the cooking and resting processes into one.  All I did was add two slices of pepper jack and toast the bun, nothing fancy, but it turned out really nice.

[Rob Babcock]

I'm curious to hear how the crock pot hack works for you.  My readings pointed towards mixed results.  It probably depends a lot on how good the PID controller is.  Some of the completely homemade hacks have a lot of overshoot, which would be disastrous for something like soft boiled eggs where the difference of a degree or two will have a profound effect on the yolk.  But it wouldn't be a deal breaker for cooking chicken or a pork chop.  It'll also be cool to see how that inexpensive Rival sealer works.

As far as bags go, the best deal I've found is on the Wesson ones.  They seal very well and don't seem prone to failure.  Amazon has a good price on them but I've seen them even cheaper elsewhere.  The ones you can buy from the makers of the SVS do claim to have been lab tested to be safe for SV cooking, which is a plus...not sure about all the other brands.

[Philistine]

Ordered the controller yesterday from Auber - should be here in a few days.  I chose Auber as they have experience in the implementation of PID's in many food/drink applications, so we'll see how this works out.

In the BBC show 'Ramsey's Best Restaurant' the winner was an Italian restaurant, the two chefs are very creative with Sous Vide - the winning meal was a fish main course with a creamed salsify (both Sous Vide), that really got Ramsey's attention. 

When the gear has arrived I'll start a separate thread, in order not to pollute your burger thread Rob, but wanted to acknowledge your initial thread for pushing me over the edge on this.  I'm looking forwards to great meat and veggies with this

Still waiting for snailmail to deliver my vacuum sealer, ordered a roll of food grade bags from eBay.....

[Scottdazzle]

Some of the posts in this thread are scary.  I worked for 12 years for the food safety and inspection service. The scientists there always recommended at least 160 degrees internal temperature.  Anything less than that is an incubator!  If the meat is tainted by salmonella or listeria or ecoli, you're setting the stage for serious food poisoning.

These guys know what they're talking about. They respond to food poisoning outbreaks all the time. This is a FAQ from the USDA-FSIS website:

What kind of bacteria can be in ground beef? Are they dangerous?
Bacteria are everywhere in our environment. Any food of animal origin can harbor bacteria. Pathogenic bacteria, such as Salmonella, Escherichia coli O157:H7, Campylobacter jejuni, Listeria monocytogenes, and Staphylococcus aureus, cause illness. These harmful bacteria can not be seen or smelled.

When meat is ground, more of the meat is exposed to the harmful bacteria. Bacteria multiply rapidly in the "Danger Zone" — temperatures between 40 and 140 °F. To keep bacterial levels low, store ground beef at 40 °F or less and use within 2 days, or freeze. To destroy harmful bacteria, cook ground beef to a safe minimum internal temperature of 160 °F.

Other bacteria cause spoilage. Spoilage bacteria are generally not harmful, but they will cause food to deteriorate or lose quality by developing a bad odor or feeling sticky on the outside.

[Philistine]

Sous Vide is a different environment, the safety issues are different to traditional cooking methods.  It was banned in New York restaurants for many years while being investigated on safety grounds, but given the all clear.  The main safety issues relate to Sous Vide being used as a food preparation and storage method.  Industrial kitchens have been using Sous Vide for years, and are able to use fast chill methods which eliminate bacteria issues.  The main safety concern with domestic Sous Vide is not having fast chill capability, consequently the recommendation is to cook and serve and not use it as a prep and storage process. 

Apart from this issue Sous Vide has been given the all clear on safety grounds.  If anyone has concerns a quick Google search on Sous Vide safety brings up the information.

[Rob Babcock]

Yeah, 160^o F for a couple seconds will kill almost everything.  But so will 130^o F... it just takes a lot longer.  Pasteurizing can be done at almost any temp above 130^o F provided you maintain sanitation and insure that you've kept the product at the appropriate temp for a sufficient length of time.  Sous Vide isn't fly-by-night, there's a lot of science behind it.  All the health departments that have studied it enough to understand it have eventually concluded that it's safe, provided the proper procedure is rigidly adhered to.  In most cases, this means having a HACCP plan in place.

Low temp, long time pasteurization is often used for things like eggs which would be hard boiled if done at high temps.

I can't seem to figure out how to attach it but I have the PDF version of Balwin's book on sous vide...

[Rob Babcock]

I finally managed to hold off the snarfing long enough to get out the camera!   Here's a couple pics of tonite's burger.  It was prepared sous vide at 133^o F for three hours.  I then dried it with a paper towel and gave it a quick sear with my Iwatani torch.  It then went under the oven broiler for about 45 seconds per side.


Here's a picture of it before cutting.  I mixed some stone ground mustard, mayo, and horseradish with minced scallions and shallots.  I topped with aged white cheddar and melted the cheese a bit with my Iwatani.




Here it is cut in half so you can see the center.  As rare as it looks in the picture, it hardly bled at all.  Again, sv seems to combine cooking and resting.  Plus the heat is low enough that the proteins don't keratinize to the point where all the juice is squeezed out.

[Philistine]

Wow  that burger looks to die for....
Question - why do you use the torch and use the broiler?  The reason I ask is I've yet to decide on how to approach searing, and I've read that using the torch is a skill that needs practice to perfect.

I've got a couple of flank steaks in for dinner tonight - 24 hours at 124F.

Here's the link to Baldwin's book with the safety data plus equipment and recipes etc:

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

[Philistine]

My Auber controller arrived just over a week ago and I've used it twice with a small crockpot.  My first attempt was a flank steak cooked at 134F for 24 hours, this weekend I did chicken Marsala and cooked the chicken breasts at 141 for 2 hours.  I'm still alive and, on both occasions, the results where better than I expected.  The steak was medium rare all the way through (finished it on the grill), the chicken was finished in a skillet (after coating with flour and Italian herbs) and came out cooked and moist all the way through.

Unfortunately we shoveled both of them down without taking snap shots.....

I'm very pleased with the outcome and will start a separate thread - all I will say is the Auber controller is able to keep the temp stable within 0.5F degrees.  The crockpot I use is on the small side and, as a consequence of the small volume of water, the temp variation is more like 2F degrees when food is added.  Next step is to buy one of these:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/avantco-w50-12-x-20-electric-countertop-food-warmer/177W50.html

Recommended for large cuts of meat, and stable cooking temperatures. 

[Rob Babcock]

I'm glad you're getting good results!  Initially I used the torch to dry it and was gonna sear with it but I was impatient and decided to use the broiler.   One or the other is all that's really needed.  For a burger the perfect sear would be a screaming hot cast iron pan but it's a bit too messy indoors. 

I like the looks of that large warmer.  If you can keep the temp within maybe 2 degrees that should suffice for meat.  Eggs, maybe not so much.

We will have to start another SV thread!