LFP-V Edition Tube Rolling Thread

Paganini Alfredo · « **Reply #20 on:** 3 Apr 2011, 09:25 pm »

I've got several tubes to pick and choose from now...

I've mainly been using the above mentioned Amprerex 7308 with gold pins for the majority of the time I've been burning in/listening the past two weeks. I think my Isabellina is burned in now. My other tubes are:

Amperex 6DJ8 "early white label"
Amperex 6DJ8 "orange globe label"
Amperex 6DJ8 "bugle boy label"

I plopped in the bugle boy tube a couple of days ago and then noticed what I thought as irritating high frequencies (from the Audeze LCD-2 no less!!!). Either the unit is still undergoing changes or my hearing is a bit off cause I think I'm having a bit of congestion and it's affecting my hearing. Maybe both. I swapped the Amperex 7308 back in and at first I thought it sound okay but nope, it's still sibilant at times.

Haven't had too much opportunity to compare/contrast with the other two tubes but I have plenty of comparisons for sure.

Side note; I purchased the Amperex tubes, with the gold pinned 7308 being an exception, as "bargain" deals at tctubes.com. I tested them out when I got them and they sound fine and work, but these tubes in like new condition run around 50-60$ easy. What's the difference? I read on their site that they don't test as well and wouldn't be considered for sale back in the day.

Just a thought if y'all would like some nice tubes for cheap.

Edit; Question for Vinny that's not related to tube rolling. How much juice are the LCD-2's getting with the Isabellina?

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #21 on:** 5 Apr 2011, 01:15 pm »

Quote from: Paganini Alfredo on 3 Apr 2011, 09:25 pm

I plopped in the bugle boy tube a couple of days ago and then noticed what I thought as irritating high frequencies (from the Audeze LCD-2 no less!!!). Either the unit is still undergoing changes or my hearing is a bit off cause I think I'm having a bit of congestion and it's affecting my hearing. Maybe both. I swapped the Amperex 7308 back in and at first I thought it sound okay but nope, it's still sibilant at times.

Hi P.A.,

I never liked the Bugle Boys for that reason - the highs bothered me.

Amperex 7308s always seemed to do a nice job with the top-end.

Note - when I've had cold virues that led to ear congestion, I learned to just fight it off before doing critical listening because it would throw off my judgment

It's odd because you would think that having congestion would dull high frequencies, but for me, they irritated me because the mid-range (vocals - even when listening to people talk to me) were dulled, so when listening, everything was all out of balance. So go easy and fight off your ear congestion before making critical evaluation of any tubes, components, etc.

Quote

Edit; Question for Vinny that's not related to tube rolling. How much juice are the LCD-2's getting with the Isabellina?

They are getting a healthy amount of clean power (but under 1W per channel).

All the best,

Vinnie

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 Apr 2011, 03:14 pm »

Miniwatt Dario 7308/E188CC (1960s, Made in France, gold pins, around $150 per tube)

The Sound

- Solid, full-sounding bass
- Fantastic soundstage width and depth
- Fleshed-out midrange
- Rich tone, "meat-on-the-bones" and juicy!
- Sweet and airy top-end

Other Comments

A very musical sounding tube that is spacious, tonally rich, airy, and well-balanced from
top to bottom. One of my favorites for use with the LFP-V Tube Stage. It'll have you sinking
your teeth into the music and keep you listening

Très addictif - vive le Miniwatt Dario!

gjgman · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 Apr 2011, 03:56 pm »

Vinnie:
Is this the tube? http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tubes/6922/dario-7308.html

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #24 on:** 8 Apr 2011, 12:08 am »

Quote from: gjgman on 7 Apr 2011, 03:56 pm

Vinnie:
Is this the tube? http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tubes/6922/dario-7308.html

Hi gjgman,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum. Yes - that's the one.

"Driver grade" is fine for the LFP-V tube buffer.

Next up - the Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist...

I hope you all get a chance to do some tube rolling and post your findings as well. In the meantime, I have plenty more tubes to roll and post about!

Cheers!

Vinnie

gjgman · « **Reply #25 on:** 8 Apr 2011, 03:54 pm »

quote author=Vinnie R. link=topic=91642.msg929656#msg929656 date=1302221326]
Hi gjgman,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum. Yes - that's the one.

"Driver grade" is fine for the LFP-V tube buffer.

Next up - the Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist...

I hope you all get a chance to do some tube rolling and post your findings as well. In the meantime, I have plenty more tubes to roll and post about!

Cheers!

Vinnie
[/quote]

Looking forward to your thoughts on that tube Vinnie

gjgman · « **Reply #26 on:** 9 Apr 2011, 12:56 pm »

With the Isabellina "Driver Grade" is okay for tubes? No need for the Gold?

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 01:50 pm »

Quote from: gjgman on 9 Apr 2011, 12:56 pm

With the Isabellina "Driver Grade" is okay for tubes? No need for the Gold?

With any of tube LFP-V Edition Tube boards (single tube), the "driver grade" is fine

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 Apr 2011, 02:02 pm »

Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist (made in holland (1950's?), around $250/tube)

The Sound

- Solid, full-sounding bass
- Fantastic soundstage width and depth - big and 3D.
- Fleshed-out midrange
- Rich tone, "meat-on-the-bones" and juicy. And just the right amount of it, IMO!
- Sweet and airy top-end, beautifully detailed... delicate

Other Comments

Like the MiniWatt Dario, this is easily one of my favorite tubes with the LFP-V Tube Stage.
The level of musicality, spaciousness, tonality, and seductiveness is grand!
Well-balanced from top to bottom - it may hook you like a fish

Also like the MiniWatt Darios, I wish these were easier to find and less expensive, but they are
both worth every penny to me!

So - who has the 1950's Siemens CCas to post about?

They are also very highly
sought after, and have a different presentation to the last two tubes that I commented on.

nshawks · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 Apr 2011, 10:04 am »

I ordered a Matsushita 7DJ8 to try as well as one of the Miniwatt Dario's for my 30.2 LFP-V. I'll let you know how they compare to the stock JJ tube. I have a set of Tungsram 6922's already that I was using in my cdp for a while, but haven't tried one in the amp yet. I never liked them that much in the cdp, but I suppose I shouldn't assume that I'd have the same opinion in the amp.

Nocturne79 · « **Reply #30 on:** 16 Apr 2011, 01:08 am »

Hello everyone, I just got a Miniwatt France 7308 tube for my Isabellina LFP-V HPA! This tube is great! The soundstage IMO got wider and the the bass become better and more focused, then my Mullard CV2492 I was using before. Sorry i am really bad at describing things.
Anyway just wanted to say that i really enjoy this new tube and hope some day to get an Amperex pinch waist. Thanks Vinnie for posting input on the tubes, its a great resource for me since I have no real experience with tubes. Have a wonderful day everyone

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #31 on:** 20 Apr 2011, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: Nocturne79 on 16 Apr 2011, 01:08 am

Hello everyone, I just got a Miniwatt France 7308 tube for my Isabellina LFP-V HPA! This tube is great! The soundstage IMO got wider and the the bass become better and more focused, then my Mullard CV2492 I was using before. Sorry i am really bad at describing things.
Anyway just wanted to say that i really enjoy this new tube and hope some day to get an Amperex pinch waist. Thanks Vinnie for posting input on the tubes, its a great resource for me since I have no real experience with tubes. Have a wonderful day everyone

Hi Nocturne79,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum! The MiniWatt Dario is great, indeed! My pleasure posting my experience with the tubes I've been rolling, and thank you for your post!

More to come...

Happy Listening,

Vinnie

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #32 on:** 29 Apr 2011, 12:55 am »

Genalex Gold Lion (Cryoset Certified) E88CC/6922 - available from www.cryoset.com

The Sound

- Very tight and punchy bass, with plenty of weight
- Very lively and exciting!
- A more forward midrange
- A clean top end (not bright or edgy, but not what I would call "sweet"). Plenty of detail.

Other Comments

This tube has very similar characteristics to the EAT Cool Valve I mentioned earlier, but at a more attractive price!

Great for those who want a very dynamic and clear sound, without the grain.

Comes in matched cyro'd pairs for < $100 - so this is what I call a good value!

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #33 on:** 15 May 2011, 03:42 pm »

While it CANNOT currently be used in the LFP-V Edition products, does anyone have
experience with the 6H30 (Super Tube) family of tubes compared to the 6922 family?

They are taller and draw twice the heater current... with modification to the LFP-V Tube Stage (and a hole on the cover to allow this tube to fit), I know it can work. In time, I'd like to see what it can do

Nels Ferre · « **Reply #34 on:** 15 May 2011, 05:06 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 15 May 2011, 03:42 pm

While it CANNOT currently be used in the LFP-V Edition products, does anyone have
experience with the 6H30 (Super Tube) family of tubes compared to the 6922 family?

They are taller and draw twice the heater current... with modification to the LFP-V Tube Stage (and a hole on the cover to allow this tube to fit), I know it can work. In time, I'd like to see what it can do

I have limited experience with the 6H30 in a preamp. The Electro Harmonics 6H30 is fine, but the Russian Mil Spec NOS 6H30DR had far better bass extension, at least in that circuit. The DR also costs 3X more than the new production EH 6H30.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 May 2011, 04:40 am »

Thanks, Nels. So how much for the NOS 6H30DR, and how rare are they?

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #36 on:** 2 Jun 2011, 01:31 pm »

Another one that caught my eye:

The 8223 (E288CC). They use more heater current (approx. 0.475A vs. 0.3A), so they cannot be dropped into the Isabella or the LFP-Vs w/o modification - but they are "supposed" to be very rare and even higher quality of the 7308 (E188CC).

On my free time, I'll see if I can snag a pair and see what I can do with them, and report my findings.

Vinnie

barbes · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 Jun 2011, 11:21 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 31 Mar 2011, 09:54 pm

All,

I'll be doing some serious listening to the various tubes I have in my collection and will be posting about my findings, starting with this post. These are just my findings and please do not take them
as a formal review. I also hope to hear the opinion of others using these tubes (and others I have not tried) in their LFP-V Edition Red Wine Audio component(s). Thank you for your posts!

System: Macbook connected to Isabellina HPA LFP-V Edition dac/headphone amp (via USB) to Audez'e LCD-2 headphones. I decided I wanted to use only one RWA LFP-V component and headphones (to eliminate room variables and the other components) for doing these tube evaluations. So the Isabellina HPA LFP-V was the best choice, and the LCD-2s are definitely one the very best headphones I've listened to on the HPA...

Lets start with the EAT Cool Valve ECC88:

It does fit in the LFP-V Edition tube stage board (but cannot be used in the Isabella preamp because the diameter is too large due to the heatsink).

The Sound

- Very tight and punchy bass, with plenty of weight
- Excellent dynamics. Very lively and exciting!
- A more forward midrange
- A clean top end (not bright or edgy, but not what I would call "sweet"). Plenty of detail.

Other Comments

Not what I would call a seductive sound, if that is what you are looking for. But if
you need a very dynamic and clear sound, without the grain, this is a great choice.
Not quite what I would call "neutral" as the mid-range is a little forward and the the bass has a little extra weight - but I can see this working well where the listener is looking for more "boogie factor" to the sound!

More to follow....

Based on this review and some others I’ve read of this tube, I’ve had it in my Isabellina for over 100 hours now. I had Amperex 7308s in both it and my Signature (see earlier post in this thread) and really like them, but the system had started sounding overly lush to me – almost syrupy sometimes and not so great for harder-edged music. I LOVE this tube. The sweet overlay is gone and detail and imaging is even better. Vinnie’s right about the slight bass emphasis, but it doesn’t sound artificial to me, just solid. I’m very happy with it.

(This is with my Omega speakers, primarily – I don’t use the headphone amp enough to rate fine differences. The Signature still has the Amperex.)

adamaley · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 07:17 am »

Any more observations/suggestions guys? Paganini Alfredo, fancy meeting you here

So far, it seems like the Miniwatt Darios are the best value option. Are there any other tubes in the 100-200 dollar range that should be considered? I'm looking to improve upon all aspects of the frequency spectrum without adding grain or forwardness to the sound. The Darios look like they fit the bill. Any thoughts? Vinnie, thanks for a great amp.

Profbratsch · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Jul 2011, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: adamaley on 17 Jul 2011, 07:17 am

Are there any other tubes in the 100-200 dollar range that should be considered? I'm looking to improve upon all aspects of the frequency spectrum without adding grain or forwardness to the sound.

There are two possibilities that are currently listed on Audiogon, both by the same seller. If I were in need of tubes I would immediately purchase the first set I am listing here, although the asking price exceeds the top end of your budget by $39. That is more than offset by the life of the tube. In any event here is what I came up with:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1315511909
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1313936981

Hope this is helpful...