DAC-9

munosmario · « **Reply #60 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 28 Jun 2011, 03:37 pm

Details details. When one puts all the pieces together the final result [ product] is the tell tale. So far the response overall is very positive.
Jitter is important but there are many other contributing factors to great CD sound. For me when inserting a new piece in the system there is only one criteria. Does it sound better to me ? If so it stays if not it goes.
Really guys don't get hung up about one issue it is the overall performance that matters.

charles

Charles, Charles, here you go again with the “details, details!” theme, repeating it, if I may say with all the respect you deserve, like a simplistic mantra. You do not need to tell us that, ultimately, what matters is how the product sounds…unless, clearly without knowledge of fact, you are passing judgment and assuming we don’t know or understand that basic dogma—which, I am afraid, makes you sound condescending or patronizing. Be assured that we do know very well that what matters is how the product sounds.

The point in this and my thread about the CDP-8 is multiple. People that are looking to upgrade their systems rely, first, on manufacturer’s publicized literature with the attendant claims and specifications and, then, on whatever credible reviews that start to surface. Of course, in these days of e-trade dominated sales, if the manufacturer or its resellers allow for a home trial, this is the obvious next step to test for the “dogma.” However with the many options out there, particularly in the continuously and fast evolving field of digital audio (NuForce, right now has three major competing, state of the art offerings), how much time, patience, and money a person has to purchase, evaluate, ship-back, and pay whatever shipping charges and re-stocking fees that may apply? These may seem just details to you Charles, but not to everyone else.

So, to trim down our choices--prior to use sensibly home audition privileges--we need those manufacturers’ claims and specs, as well as the reviews attempting to verify their significance, validity, and if they translate into good SQ, Ah! In addition, never mind the goodwill of those manufacturers, even if I could afford it, I personally do not feel that great about abusing that goodwill and engage in a behavior that generates dozens of open box, blue stock items for them. The majority of those manufacturers, as I am sure you well know, are fledging operations fighting an adverse economy in a fiercely competitive environment. Accordingly, for this model to work sensibly, a company has to be careful when stating/publicizing their claims about a product--this is besides the legal issue of misleading advertising (probably remote but real) and avoiding a PR embarrassment, as well as both preserving and building up credibility vis-à-vis all those that feel these details are truly important.

Cheers……………………Mario

phusis · « **Reply #61 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 10:59 am »

Quote from: munosmario on 27 Jun 2011, 08:51 pm

Phusis, you are absolutely right, Mejias did compare the two units side by side. I felt victim to a case of cognitive disonance reacting like a fanclub member. My apologies...in fact, I would like to refer you to my thread on the CDP-8, last post may 25th, 2011, whereby, being puzzeled rather than intending being critical, I expressed a smilar concern to yours relative to the CDP-8' product specifications claims relative to the statement from Jason that they had designed the CDP-8 by ear without paying attention to actual measurements...plus further puzzelment by Wess Phillips's rave review despite the huge jitter messurements. Mejias did not condemn the first version and was ambivalent of sorts for a while comparing different attributes, at the end stating a prefference base on what subjectibly he felt pleased him the most...one would have expected to find a radical difference beyond spliting hairs between sonic attributes...this prompted me to do some searches about jitter which as you can read in my posts made me realize that jitter measurements are not such a slam dunk when it come to explain SQ....then was when I decidedd to forget any negative feelings and give to Nuforce the credit they deserve in coming out with oustanding SQ products regarding of price (i.e., became the fan club member I mentione above).

If the CDP-8 sounds that good, aren't you curious to hear the new Extreme version of Nuforce's Oppo mod? In his thread about the Oppo's mods, Jason stated:

"BDP-93NE, like the CDP-8, does everything right. Unlike the CDP-8, it is more "tube like" sounding. So it is a matter of taste.

BDP-93NXE brings out the SOUL of the music, whatever that it is playing. A 300 year old cello will sound just like one, a soulful singer's voice will haunt you, you will cry if you hear a sad song, you feet will tap with the music. In our opinion, this is the best player we have ever heard in our lab.
I personally have not been so moved by music in our demo system until I heard BDP-93NXE yesterday."

That was mid of April, 2011, and by then the DAC9 was already out of the bench ready to go....so, I am definitely curious!!

All the best

munosmario

munosmario,

thanks for bringing the BDP-93N(X)E players to my attention. Even though I have no use for an additional Blu-ray player(though the SACD-option would come in handy..) being that I'm using a J River 16-based HTPC with Blu-ray drive already, I've looked up on the BDP-93NXE in particular to find out whether this was the way to go as a stand-alone DAC instead of the DAC-9. Having both units for a side-by-side comparison in my own setup would've been preferable, but since this opportunity hasn't presented itself too easily I've relied in most part on the rather extensive and recent 6moons review(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/nuforce16/1.html) of the NuForce modified Oppo players. Though an extremely favorable review, and led on by reasons attained through other factors and sources, I've come to the conclusion to go with the DAC-9, as was my initial intention, and last Friday I finally placed my order for the unit. I should receive it within 2 weeks, and then we'll see..

I must add that I'm going with the DAC-9 on blind faith(i.e. I haven't yet auditioned the DAC-9), with the risk of being labled an audiophile-heretic here, but I know people who have auditioned the DAC-9 quite extensively(using largely similar equipment to mine in their remaining stereo setup, and sharing more or less my sonic preferences or, rather, ways to come about their impressions), and I trust their judgment just as I have faith in NuForce having produced a DAC that will bring me closer to the nature of music. This is no common practice of mine, buying products on blind faith, but believing myself well versed in the "sound philosophy" of NuForce and that their ongoing product developement matters, and not least the other inputs named above, this is an exception.

EDIT: Stereo Times review of the DAC-9:

http://www.stereotimes.com/commRN070711.shtml

worldcat · « **Reply #62 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 07:51 pm »

Horrible review. I mean did he like it or not? How did it sound compared to the Cd player?

I did not get much out of it.

phusis · « **Reply #63 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: worldcat on 13 Jul 2011, 07:51 pm

Horrible review. I mean did he like it or not? How did it sound compared to the Cd player? I did not get much out of it.

worldcat,

I was puzzled myself to begin with(and still is) reading his review, my intial thought being "Get to the point, Mr. Silverton." Re-reading the review a few times times made me think whether he'd been in an overly apologetic state of mind while writing the review due to his involvement with NuForce(whatever it is he's doing here), and so perhaps was trying to either hold back enthusiasm or even some critical viewpoints on the DAC-9's sonic capabilities. Another possibility for the ambiguity could be his rhetorical style and meandering into anecdotal territory, often devulging further into explanations that eventually turn out to be (or not to be) illuminating on the review. That is, though he doesn't write much on the sonic specifics of the DAC-9 I feel it may be the more telling in view of his preferential elaborations; isn't it interesting how he writes more about the music and its recorded variations, with no apparent diminishment with regard to musical enjoyment, as if the DAC-9 would take a step back in leaving less of a self-imposed imprinting, and let one hear more clearly what's at play? Descriptions like "Foremost among my impressions: enhanced dynamics and resolution, and a wonderful sense of breadth.," together with "And as the DAC-9 so honestly reports ..." seem to underline the trait of the DAC-9 to hold no prisoners, so to speak, and that, in other words, it's a highly informative and, again, honest reproducer. Whether Mr. Silverton likes the sound of the DAC-9 or not I believe must be read largely through his insights on the music, and by that token I take it that he does - much so indeed.

That said I fully agree this is not an in-depth review as such, more like an hors d'oeuvre, and it's annoying there's no comparison made to the CDP-8 other than the rather ambiguous "The CDP-8 as a stand-alone player leaves little to be desired. The CDP-8 with its optional LPS-1 power supply feeding the DAC-9 leave even less to be desired. ," as if one couldn't get the upgrade through the DAC-9 alone without the addition of the CDP-8 and the LPS-1 power supply as a complete package. Maybe the two units, the CDP-8 and DAC-9, are too closely priced for him to reveal a "winner"(the DAC-9) whereby they might induce a lack of interest in the CDP-8. Understandable from a sales point, but not desirable as a clear indication on the true capabilities of the DAC-9 over the CDP-8 - as stand-alone units in both cases.

prokennex · « **Reply #64 on:** 13 Jul 2011, 10:52 pm »

Maybe he should write another review that's actually a review.

phusis · « **Reply #65 on:** 14 Jul 2011, 11:09 am »

Spanish review:

http://www.nuforce.com/hi/dacr.php

ohlins · « **Reply #66 on:** 14 Jul 2011, 11:55 am »

if i am not an owner, i would be as frustrated with the lack of information cos there is no basis for comparison....

but since i have been enjoying mine for quite a while, i can say the review is spot on ....

munosmario · « **Reply #67 on:** 24 Jul 2011, 08:29 pm »

Quote from: phusis on 12 Jul 2011, 10:59 am

munosmario,

thanks for bringing the BDP-93N(X)E players to my attention. Even though I have no use for an additional Blu-ray player(though the SACD-option would come in handy..) being that I'm using a J River 16-based HTPC with Blu-ray drive already, I've looked up on the BDP-93NXE in particular to find out whether this was the way to go as a stand-alone DAC instead of the DAC-9. Having both units for a side-by-side comparison in my own setup would've been preferable, but since this opportunity hasn't presented itself too easily I've relied in most part on the rather extensive and recent 6moons review(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/nuforce16/1.html) of the NuForce modified Oppo players. Though an extremely favorable review, and led on by reasons attained through other factors and sources, I've come to the conclusion to go with the DAC-9, as was my initial intention, and last Friday I finally placed my order for the unit. I should receive it within 2 weeks, and then we'll see..

I must add that I'm going with the DAC-9 on blind faith(i.e. I haven't yet auditioned the DAC-9), with the risk of being labled an audiophile-heretic here, but I know people who have auditioned the DAC-9 quite extensively(using largely similar equipment to mine in their remaining stereo setup, and sharing more or less my sonic preferences or, rather, ways to come about their impressions), and I trust their judgment just as I have faith in NuForce having produced a DAC that will bring me closer to the nature of music. This is no common practice of mine, buying products on blind faith, but believing myself well versed in the "sound philosophy" of NuForce and that their ongoing product developement matters, and not least the other inputs named above, this is an exception.

EDIT: Stereo Times review of the DAC-9:

http://www.stereotimes.com/commRN070711.shtml

You are welcome, phusis. Actually my intent was no so much to bring your attention to the BDP-93N(X)E but to Jason's comments about it:

"BDP-93NXE brings out the SOUL of the music, whatever that it is playing. A 300 year old cello will sound just like one, a soulful singer's voice will haunt you, you will cry if you hear a sad song, you feet will tap with the music. In our opinion, this is the best player we have ever heard in our lab.
I personally have not been so moved by music in our demo system until I heard BDP-93NXE yesterday."

In Jason's opinion the BDP-93NXE is the best player "they" (not just him) have heard in their lab. Whether rethorically or literally speaking, it moved him to tears and he clearly states that he had never be so moved by music in their demo system until he heard this player...that was in mid April and by then the DAC 9 was already a fully developed product set for the market...notice that Jason's comments do not give any qualifyied or qualifying mention or even a passing reference to the DAC-9...just as if Nuforce had already outdone itself with the BDP-93NXE--over the DAC-9 (just like in the quote in the review from Spain). If one is well versed or has faith in Nuforce's sound philosophy and ability to produce something that brings one closer to the music, I would say, all one needs to hear is what Jason says or said...no point in wasting time trying to find validation in third party incoherent reviews, wouldn't you agree with me?

Of course, I am talking strictly about SQ, as assessed by Jason, not taking into consideration the [application] difference between a DAC and a Player...however if you are into Hi-Res music files, the modified OPPO has that covered too. I believe, all you need is a Solid State eSATA hard drive and you are in business...totally quiet and super fast, completely away from USB quirks, noisy/jittery computer and disturbing electromagnetic fields from high speed rotating magenetic hard drives. All that plus a state of the art universal disc player (not just Blue Ray)!! My only concern is whether Nuforce decides to bring back to life the NXE mod for the OPPO 95, trying to outdo themselves again.

munosmario

rbbert · « **Reply #68 on:** 21 Aug 2011, 03:22 am »

About 2 months in now with my DAC-9, and I continue to be happy (or even happier) with the sound. Not hyper-detailed, IMO, but musical, and definitely "cleaner" (smoother?) than my Oppo-83SE alone. Not necessarily a "night and day" difference, but perhaps close!

OTOH, the ergonomics continue to be annoying to me. It's shape doesn't match with any other components and it's hard to fit well onto an equipment rack. The touch panels/buttons on the front are a little tricky to get used to, and the buttons on the remote are ridiculously small, especially considering that most of them are non-functional and superfluous.

Those are basically nits, though, considering the level of sound quality for the price.

ohlins · « **Reply #69 on:** 23 Nov 2011, 02:23 pm »

a bronze award for the DAC 9..

http://www.phileweb.com/aea/2012/kekka.html

ohlins · « **Reply #70 on:** 26 Nov 2011, 05:19 pm »

another review...

ohlins · « **Reply #71 on:** 27 Nov 2011, 03:04 pm »

A silver award for the DAC 9 in the VGP Audio Awards...

Looks like the Japanese are loving the DAC 9 too...

Jpaul94 · « **Reply #72 on:** 17 Jan 2012, 01:32 am »

Hello All,

Any news about the 192k USB option,

Thanks

Jean-Paul

John Casler · « **Reply #73 on:** 19 Jan 2012, 01:20 am »

Quote from: Jpaul94 on 17 Jan 2012, 01:32 am

Hello All,

Any news about the 192k USB option,

Thanks

Jean-Paul

The NEW MSRP of the DAC-9 with 24/192 is $1795. Should start shipping in a few days.

The upgrade module to the earlier DAC-9 24/96 to 24/192 is $100.

phusis · « **Reply #74 on:** 19 Jan 2012, 09:33 am »

Quote from: John Casler on 19 Jan 2012, 01:20 am

The NEW MSRP of the DAC-9 with 24/192 is $1795. Should start shipping in a few days.

The upgrade module to the earlier DAC-9 24/96 to 24/192 is $100.

Great news, thanks!

Will the upgrade module provide a better overall sound quality(16-24 bit/44.1-96kHz) compared to the existing module?

Best,
M

John Casler · « **Reply #75 on:** 19 Jan 2012, 05:37 pm »

Quote from: phusis on 19 Jan 2012, 09:33 am

Great news, thanks!

Will the upgrade module provide a better overall sound quality(16-24 bit/44.1-96kHz) compared to the existing module?

Best,
M

It would be hard to speculate if the 24/192 capability would in any way affect lower resolutions. One would think not.

Please note that this is also 24/192K asynchronous.

I am a NuFORCE dealer, and below is the message I received, although dates may be adjustable as production and distribution come online:

Quote

DAC-9 192K - $1795 with USB 24/192K (asynchronous). So DAC-9 is now fully 24/192. -- Shipping Jan 19. -- DAC-9 to DAC-9 192K upgrade USB module cost $100 MSRP.

Officially it will be designated: DAC-9 192K

nuforce-casey · « **Reply #76 on:** 19 Jan 2012, 07:58 pm »

The new 24/192 module is asynchronous, which means you have to install a specific driver. There will be overall improvements including 44.1khz due to the switch to asynchronous transmission.

phusis · « **Reply #77 on:** 20 Jan 2012, 08:41 am »

Thanks for the quick reply, John and Casey!

Quote from: nuforce-casey on 19 Jan 2012, 07:58 pm

The new 24/192 module is asynchronous, which means you have to install a specific driver. There will be overall improvements including 44.1khz due to the switch to asynchronous transmission.

Now I'll definately have to upgrade.

Some clarifying questions:

- How does one install the "specific driver"?

- I assume the new module is internal(?), and if so, will I be able to replace it myself, or do I need to send my DAC-9 to my dealer and have him do it for me?

Best,
M

nuforce-casey · « **Reply #78 on:** 20 Jan 2012, 06:41 pm »

We will provide an URL for driver download (Windows), there is no driver on a Mac because Mac supports async. natively.

Installation is without solder work, but do need to open the case (instruction can be provided).

phusis · « **Reply #79 on:** 21 Jan 2012, 12:45 pm »

Quote from: nuforce-casey on 20 Jan 2012, 06:41 pm

We will provide an URL for driver download (Windows), there is no driver on a Mac because Mac supports async. natively.

Installation is without solder work, but do need to open the case (instruction can be provided).

Thanks