[dlipter]

There seems to be a new wave of folded ribbon tweeters appearing on the market with claims to offer an improvement over the traditional planar ribbon type used here at GR Research. Does this deserve being looked into?

Thanks,

Dennis

[hum4god]

when you say folded ribbon , do you mean amt ?
which once do you consider or want to compare?
there are good amt drivers available but they come at a price often higher then a neo3 for example.

[dlipter]

Yes I mean an AMT type of driver.

Two come to mind, Martin Logan's 'Folded Motion' tweeter from their Motion series, and the GoldenEar HVFR tweeter used in their Triton Two.

From all accounts, these new generation drivers are spectacular. I would like to see this type of driver evaluated by GR Research to possibly replace the current planar magnetic ribbons used.

[Danny Richie]

I had some sent to me last year to sample. I had some issues with them and set them aside.

However, recently I have decided to see what the capabilities of this type of tweeter really is. So I went back to the manufacturer and gave them a list of changes to make to them to correct the problems with them.

They have been sending me drawings and feedback. Hopefully I'll have them straightened out soon and get some samples here to test.

Have you had any experience with them and if so which ones?

[rpf]

dlipter beat me to it. I was going to ask the same question here.

I have heard the Martin Logan Motion 10 and while the whole speaker clearly has it's drawbacks (designed for Home Theater use, it has a very forward sound), the tweeter itself is superb. Incredibly flat, extended and tonally accurate. And this driven by a mid-fi receiver.

Edit: I should add that it made the tweeter in an expensive monitor from a very large, highly regarded driver & speaker manufacturer sound distorted.

[dlipter]

Danny,

No I don't have any direct experience, the rave reviews surrounding the GoldenEar peaked my interest. I have a local dealer for GoldenEar that I intend to visit.

I like the idea of a full range tower with built in powered sub, have you thought of that approach? A tower with built in servo sub and a folded ribbon if warranted would be killer!

P.S. Of course the key to success with a ribbon is finding a suitably fast midrange driver to blend it with. You must have already dealt with the midrange driver issue with your current ribbon designs.

[Danny Richie]

Danny,

No I don't have any direct experience, the rave reviews surrounding the GoldenEar peaked my interest. I have a local dealer for GoldenEar that I intend to visit.

I like the idea of a full range tower with built in powered sub, have you thought of that approach? A tower with built in servo sub and a folded ribbon if warranted would be killer!

P.S. Of course the key to success with a ribbon is finding a suitably fast midrange driver to blend it with. You must have already dealt with the midrange driver issue with your current ribbon designs.

You been reading my e-mails?

It was recommended to my client that we look at some of those tweeters. Here is a prototype used for testing some drivers for that client: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91187.0

And a base (speaker stand type base) with servo controlled 8" woofers are in the planning too.

[dlipter]

From what I have read, the sharp clinical sound of the Raal you describe (typical of flat ribbons?) is mitigated by the newer folded ribbon designs.

I look forward to reading about the results of your folded ribbon evaluation.

[rpf]

Sharp and clinical is how most (all?) ribbon tweeters I've heard (admittedly not too many and none by GR) have sounded. The folded ribbons in the MLs sounded natural. This, from someone who does not like even conventional metal tweeters.

Rob

[cstory]

I am always amazed at how subjective this hobby is. I have a pair of speakers from Selah that have the RAAL 70x20 ribbon tweeter in them , and sharp and clinical are not words I would associate with that tweeter. To me it is the most natural sounding tweeter I have owned. I actually would describe the sound of the treble as quite laid back in my Granduers. Nothing sharp or clinical at all. Tambouries have a natural clank to them that sounds like little bits of metal hitting each other and not just a swish of noise.

Like I said, everything is subjective. Count me a believer in the RAAL, based on nearly 2 years of listening.

However, as a Martin Logan owner as well, I am curious about the AMT tweeter. If the same performance of the RAAL, or the Martin Logan Electrostatics can be had in a less expensive package, that would be a real benifit for everyone.

Chuck

[Danny Richie]

You aren't just listening to your tweeter Chuck. You are listening to the tweeter and everything else in front of it. For instance, what type of capacitors are used with it?

[Voiceray]

You aren't just listening to your tweeter Chuck. You are listening to the tweeter and everything else in front of it. For instance, what type of capacitors are used with it?

This may not be a very good chime in, but would the purpose of the capacitor make a difference.  The same capacitor with the same value, but one meant for a crossover and the other meant for normal circuit board.  Like a Dynacap 6 uf.

[Danny Richie]

This may not be a very good chime in, but would the purpose of the capacitor make a difference.  The same capacitor with the same value, but one meant for a crossover and the other meant for normal circuit board.  Like a Dynacap 6 uf.

There is not a difference in capacitors based on whether or not they are to be mounted on a circuit board. At least not the caps and values needed for something like this.

You can use a cap with a high level of coloration or slow discharge to smear or soften the sound, and many might like the combination. However, this type of cap can also have a negative effect on the imaging. So I tend to shy away from caps of this type because of the negative effects and coloration that they add.

[woofersus]

Doesn't Adam Audio also use that type of folded ribbon?

[dlipter]

Yes Adam Audio calls their tweeter X-ART.

It's a pleated ribbon.

[HAL]

A friend still has his AMT-1B's with the Heil Airmotion Transformer as it is called.   Sounds very good to this day.  There are replacement folded ribbons available for them.

This should be an interesting speaker project!

[Voiceray]

There is not a difference in capacitors based on whether or not they are to be mounted on a circuit board. At least not the caps and values needed for something like this.

You can use a cap with a high level of coloration or slow discharge to smear or soften the sound, and many might like the combination. However, this type of cap can also have a negative effect on the imaging. So I tend to shy away from caps of this type because of the negative effects and coloration that they add.

Here is an example that has me puzzled:

DYNACAP-64037
QTY    ADD
6 uf / 210V,  Electronics,  (1.10" D x 1.55" L),  S Type



$32.95 $32.95 pcX USD Price

      
DYNACAP-64046
QTY    ADD
6 uf / 210V, Speaker,  (1.10" D x 1.55" L),  D Type



$31.95 $31.95 pcX USD Price

      
Both are film type, but for some reason they are used for different purposes.
The industry is so complex.  There might be same type of resister and value from the same company, but with 10 to 20 people names attached to them like Mat or Sam.  I'm sure glad that we have left what sounds correct to you, it would be a nightmare trying to figure out the crossover.

Ray   

[Rocket_Ronny]

What issues did you have with the folded ribbons Danny?


Rocket_Ronny

[Danny Richie]

What issues did you have with the folded ribbons Danny?

Rocket_Ronny

I really don't want to highlight the problems and solutions. It won't help anyone but my competition. You guys (the hobbyist) do not have the means to have the manufacturers redesign their drivers for you.

Voiceray, I am not that familiar with the Dynacaps.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Fair enough.

Thanks


Rocket_Ronny