[bladesmith]

Have you looked into the JD-1501P hybrid amp from Jolida.

I have had Jolida products and I have never had any issues with them. They are built like tanks and very quite.

good luck...

[boxengo]

Sorry to reboot this thread, but I cannot figure out how to sart a new post, and need to post some stuff to get full citizenship privileges, if I read the rules right.  At any rate, I am considering a Rogue as I have a modded Jolida 801a which sings perfectly with my less efficient ADS 780's, and tried the Prima Luna Dialogue 36 and 70 wpc versions and was disappointed ( I listen to old, often scratchy vinyl from Africa and the Caribbean, on a Thorens 124/3009/Shure 15iii) with the lack of warm bass and shrillness of the horns.  I know most people consider these amps to be amazing, so I am mystified, and wondered if anyone had any thoughts about why the PL didn't sound so hot, as well as what direction I should go with another less expensive $1000-2500 tube amp with >50wpc for my second set of ADS 780's and a Garrard 401/3009/shire 15iii ( I bought a second pair of the ADS 780's as it was a good deal, and thy work with my bass heavy music).  I had a 4-5 friends come over with their low end speakers (b&w studio monitors, polk stuff, nothing fancy, and all of them, several musicians, totally agreed with my Jolida vs PL comparison on my and their speakers......yikes).  I also tried EL34s and KT 120's on both iterations of the PL, without much change in the basic comparison.

Thanks

Chris in Maine 

PS Kevin at Upscale was a real help as I tried to like the PL, a real professional, gotta put that out there too.

[rpf]

That surprises me. I had the 36wpc Prima Luna in my system when a friend brought it over and found it warm and rich sounding. I did prefer my Cronus Magnum to it (my friend did not) but that had more to do with the Cronus's extra power for my relatively inefficient speakers.

Did you try changing the small signal tubes? That makes a big difference in the Cronus though I don't know if it applies as much to the Prima Luna.

[JLM]

Sorry to reboot this thread, but I cannot figure out how to sart a new post, and need to post some stuff to get full citizenship privileges, if I read the rules right.  At any rate, I am considering a Rogue as I have a modded Jolida 801a which sings perfectly with my less efficient ADS 780's, and tried the Prima Luna Dialogue 36 and 70 wpc versions and was disappointed ( I listen to old, often scratchy vinyl from Africa and the Caribbean, on a Thorens 124/3009/Shure 15iii) with the lack of warm bass and shrillness of the horns.  I know most people consider these amps to be amazing, so I am mystified, and wondered if anyone had any thoughts about why the PL didn't sound so hot, as well as what direction I should go with another less expensive $1000-2500 tube amp with >50wpc for my second set of ADS 780's and a Garrard 401/3009/shire 15iii ( I bought a second pair of the ADS 780's as it was a good deal, and thy work with my bass heavy music).  I had a 4-5 friends come over with their low end speakers (b&w studio monitors, polk stuff, nothing fancy, and all of them, several musicians, totally agreed with my Jolida vs PL comparison on my and their speakers......yikes).  I also tried EL34s and KT 120's on both iterations of the PL, without much change in the basic comparison.

Thanks

Chris in Maine 

PS Kevin at Upscale was a real help as I tried to like the PL, a real professional, gotta put that out there too.

Yes, you need a minimum number of posts before you can start a thread.

I own a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium Integrated and, with the right tubes, love it.  KT120 were duds IMO, but EL34, KT88, and especially 6550 are wonderful.  But I do digital and so didn't get the amp with phono pre-amp (a better one is reportedly on the way).  So what is the problem with the sound?  Is is the shrill/lack of warm bass that you mentioned?  Sorry don't know your speakers.

[Mortsnets]

I recently purchased a Cayin A-50T integrated. It may not be powerful enough for you but it sounds great with my 90db speakers.
Uses EL34 tubes, 35w/Ch Ultra-linear Mode, 16w/Ch Triode mode. I'm liking Ultra-Linear mode the best to my suprise.

[boxengo]

Rpf and Jlm: thanks for the advice, did not try changing out the smaller tubes but did try EL-34s on both the PL Dialogue 36 wpc and 70 wpc variants, not much improvement.  But to be truthful, a few audiophile CDs sounded utterly magnificent on the Primaluna Amps, and some if this may have to with my taste in low fi often poorly recorded music from Africa and the Caribbean, music that purposefully incorporates distortion in the recording process, the modern day equivalent of cowrie shells on the lute wood body adding vibrato and layers of rhythmic complexity. That is to say, the ability of the PL to accurately reproduce recorded sound may have been a drawback, as my records may have been engineered to be played on lo fi systems.  But my jazz musician friends felt the same way about the PL vs the Jolida when some Lexington ave Blue Notes hit the turntable....

[boxengo]

Mortsnets: thx for the suggestion, what speakers are you using?  rpf: what speakers with the Rogues?

My net trawling has yielded several rave reviews of the ADS 780s in conjunction with particular amps: jolida 801, Rogue Cronus Magnums, and Consinance cyber211 monoblocks..  These folks were playing vinyl, if I remember correctly. 

Today I just learned that I might get a chance to buy a Marantz 8bs off a friends Dad, rated at 35 wpc.  That would address the power issue, as I was told with sensitivity rated either at 85 or 88 dB for the ADS 780s, more power may be better.  That is why I have not considered the Cayin here.  Hence my question regarding your speakers.  The PL  Dialogue 70 wpc had a better soundstage compared with its 36 wpc predecessor, but other technical changes beyond me may have been the cause.  Still, for non audiophile vinyl, the PL was pretty but not inviting; yes, horns a bit shrill, too much presence in the upper midrange, no yummy bass that the Cuban music is based on etc

Ok, many thanks

Chris

[boxengo]

JLM: my jolida 801 has electroharmonix 6550s in it, they are sweet.  It was modded by a previous owner, no specific info, but the trimpot bias is set to 20 mA, not the usual 40..... Any thoughts how that may be swaying my judgement?

Thanks

[JLM]

Don't know, but seems like you may be stuck in the audiophile dilema of picking between ultimate sound quality where only a very few recordings sound good under ideal conditions, or lowering the playback resolving/revealing nature of the setup so that more recordings become enjoyable.

[Ericus Rex]

You may need a *gasp* graphic EQ to go with whatever you buy.

[Mortsnets]

Mortsnets: thx for the suggestion, what speakers are you using?

I'm using JMR Twin Signatures 90db, 4ohm in a small 10x12 music room at low volumes.

[sunnydaze]

Got the same speakers in my bedroom system.   Sweet,  warm,  full and musical.   Nice tone.  Perfect for the application !