A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit

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Beatcoaster

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A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« on: 9 Feb 2011, 06:20 pm »
Danny,

When I got my LS's years ago MLS had said that the centers and surrounds had been designed already but were just waiting for production - obviously that was either a lie or it just never happened due to the obvious.  Many have said that the x-voce (which I am using as my center now) is a good tonal match but gets even better with the ninja x-over upgrade.  I'm a little hesitant to drop that kind of money on a upgrade with keeping the 'inferior drivers' compared to the LS's BG8/XBL2 6.5" combo. 

The questions to you are: Was there ever a center channel for the LS mocked up?  Is there anyway this would be a kit that you could produce?  I know you have a ton of the stock LS crossovers from the AV123 auction, is that something that could incorporated into a kit cutting costs/development time?  Perhaps (4) of the XBL2 6.5's and a single BG8 or BG3? 

After the latest NW GTG I know of one fellow LS owner(Randy, Vancouver WA) that is on this exact quest.  I had Scott(Skeeter) over last night demoing the Trinity center channel with my LS's, hoping to help him out, and in my opinion, the search is still on for one that tonally matches. 

With my latest endeavors in veneering/box building I have no doubts that I could make something aesthetically great that tonally matches my LS's.  I'm sure there are many folks that feel the same, and with you supplying us with a box design and the parts, we could all make the center channels we have wanted since we took delivery of the LS's.  Any thoughts on this?  Thanks!

Outofthewoods

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #1 on: 9 Feb 2011, 07:23 pm »
Hey BC,

The last time I spoke to Danny about this (4-5 months ago), there were no plans to go forward with a specific LS Center.

The Neo 8 is a no go for this application as it's really more of a line array specific driver.

Have you considered the OB-5/7 (Neo 3) in a horizontal configuration?

Ruben
« Last Edit: 10 Feb 2011, 01:33 am by Outofthewoods »

mojave

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #2 on: 9 Feb 2011, 08:32 pm »
I have X-Omni's and an X-CS all with Ninja Master crossovers and No Rez. The detail level, soundstage, and imaging are great! These are a perfect match up front and my tweeters are all almost the same height.

When the av123 auction came along, I ended up buying 3 pairs of LS-6 cabinets. I started wondering what I would do for a center speaker. Danny suggested the OB-7 Plus without the bass section. After thinking for a while, I realized I had never asked myself if I "needed" the center speaker. I compared the center with center channel mixed back into the mains. As long as I am sitting within the width of the mains, I found that I like a phantom center better. Actually, sitting outside the width isn't even that bad. I used the Blu-ray of Cars to test the panning, soundstage, and detail. With point source speakers, the center is probably more important, but with the omni's and line source I would think that most would be happy without the center. No center also allows me to put my projector screen in a more optimum location.

Positives for no center: 
  • Better dynamics of center channel material (could be due to using a more powerful amp for mains)
  • Higher vertical soundstage for center channel material
  • Smoother panning
  • Less reflections from another source
  • Perfect time alignment with center channel/mains
  • Less vertical sweet spot (standing has less of an effect)

I am using an HTPC so I have more advanced control over channels than with a receiver. I can also quickly switch between phantom/no phantom center. Some receivers might have a worse implementation of phantom center than others.

You already have the LS-6's and may have tried a phantom center already.
 

aaron smithski

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #3 on: 9 Feb 2011, 08:36 pm »
This is a sad situation. I have a pair of Moho LS's and it would be nice to have a matching center; or at least something that uses a planar. Mine are used in my family room (not the main HT room) but still it would be nice to get something closer than the Tannoy 8" Dual Concentric I've been using.

Was going to settle for an X-Voce, but from the couple of guys I've talked to that used it with LS's it is not nearly close enough in timbre; plus I don't like toppled MTM's anyway.

Even watching television it's amazing how much of the action comes out of the center channel. Phantom center works great for 1/2 of my seats and the other half gets the center image pulled to whatever speaker is closest.

HT cOz

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #4 on: 9 Feb 2011, 08:38 pm »
It is not really a sad situation.  Get a Neo3S and be done with it. 

Outofthewoods

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #5 on: 9 Feb 2011, 08:53 pm »
Good call Robert!

I built an N3S for a customer who paired it with his LS's and he loves it! :thumb:

I'll send him an email and see if he wouldn't mind chiming in with his take on the combo.

Ruben

Danny Richie

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #6 on: 9 Feb 2011, 09:26 pm »
The problem (one of them any way) is that it is not practical to use the Neo 8 as single units.

I know a side laying array would be really cool too but in order to keep a good horizontal coverage you have to keep the acoustic centers really close to each other or the woofers just cancel each other out on the horizontal plane. This is why the N3S works pretty well as a center channel as the acoustic centers are close.

And using the Neo 3 pdr works really well. And the N3S matches the LS's really well too.

If you guys want I can do something like the N3S but in a small array. How about six M-130X woofers in an array with the Neo 3 pdr in the middle. I can then cross only the two center woofers over to the tweeter to keep the acoustic centers close. Then I can allow the outer four woofers to share the load in the bottom end only.

I think I could make that work. How does that sound?

That would be 48.75" long and 8" tall. Ports can be used in the rear or it could be sealed.

Outofthewoods

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #7 on: 9 Feb 2011, 09:35 pm »
 :thumb:

Nick77

Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #8 on: 9 Feb 2011, 09:38 pm »
 :thumb:

aaron smithski

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #9 on: 9 Feb 2011, 10:01 pm »
It is not really a sad situation.  Get a Neo3S and be done with it.

I should clarify -- sad in that it would be nice to have the center channel's veneer be a perfect match for the LS's.

Danny Richie

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #10 on: 9 Feb 2011, 10:20 pm »
Okay, I just hooked up 6 of the M-130X woofers in a series parallel configuration of two groups of three, then by-passed the outer four with a 47uF cap value (I might could use a 56uF, 62uF, or 75uF value there) and added a typical inductor and cap of a second order crossover. The impedance sweep showed it to be pretty good and the minimum to be in the 6.9 to 7 ohm range. So no problem with that configuration.

Power handling would be high just like the LS's.

Now if enough people want one, and you can get Ruben to not only build you enclosures, but get him to send me an enclosure to do the network design with, then we can make it happen.

Keep in mind too that it will be nearly 49" wide.

Okay, who wants one?

Outofthewoods

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #11 on: 9 Feb 2011, 10:32 pm »
Now if enough people want one, and you can get Ruben to not only build you enclosures, but get him to send me an enclosure to do the network design with, then we can make it happen.

Keep in mind too that it will be nearly 49" wide.

Okay, who wants one?

The minute you responded with the idea of a new center I shot you an email offering to build the test enclosure. Check your email! :green:

As soon as I get the dimensions from Danny, I'll get started. :thumb:

Ruben

Nick77

Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #12 on: 9 Feb 2011, 10:35 pm »
Im interested, but only in the kit.

jn316

Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #13 on: 9 Feb 2011, 10:36 pm »
Wow! No beating around the bush on this one.  :thumb:

Danny Richie

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #14 on: 9 Feb 2011, 10:46 pm »
Okay, then is a rear ported version preferred? That will give it good low end extension, but also means it will need a little room behind it for the ports to breath.

Nick77

Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #15 on: 9 Feb 2011, 10:48 pm »
+1 ported  :thumb:

hesster

Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #16 on: 9 Feb 2011, 11:29 pm »
I wanna build one!

Beatcoaster

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #17 on: 9 Feb 2011, 11:30 pm »
Do I get an 'idea discount' on the kit?  :thumb:

This center needs to have big sound like the LS's with those great vocals and bass, so I say ported for sure!

Now wants a moho x-voce for cheap? :)

Beatcoaster

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Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #18 on: 9 Feb 2011, 11:40 pm »
aaron smithski - I am still trying to hunt down some of the 'moho' veneer to this day.  So far it seems that there are Eastern Indian Laurel veneers that come close, but typically dont have the same coloring, cut pattern and sap stripe.  If I can find some, it will be bought that instant.  This website shows some with nearly the same coloring as what are speakers are, but most East indian laurel I have found is much darker... http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/laurel.htm

ebag4

Re: A request for Danny - LS Center Channel Kit
« Reply #19 on: 9 Feb 2011, 11:45 pm »
Ask and you shall receive!  That is outstanding customer service! :thumb:

Best,
Ed