Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.

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bdp24

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #380 on: 19 Nov 2013, 03:56 am »
Oh right, paper, not foil. Thanks.

Oscillate

Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #381 on: 19 Nov 2013, 10:38 pm »
"The industrial vinyl floor tiles are only about 79 cents a square and
pretty effective for not much money.
"

Do y'all use the peel 'n stick type of vinyl tile, or do you use bare tile and
some other type of adhesive ...what kind of adhesive please?


''And for absorption I actually prefer fiberglass."

Which fiberglass product do you recommend? Does it make a difference
providing that the fiberglass is of a particular 'R' value, or whatever? As
an example; would Owens Corning EcoTouch Unfaced be appropriate?


Thank you

Danny Richie

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #382 on: 19 Nov 2013, 10:50 pm »
"The industrial vinyl floor tiles are only about 79 cents a square and
pretty effective for not much money.
"

Do y'all use the peel 'n stick type of vinyl tile, or do you use bare tile and
some other type of adhesive ...what kind of adhesive please?


''And for absorption I actually prefer fiberglass."

Which fiberglass product do you recommend? Does it make a difference
providing that the fiberglass is of a particular 'R' value, or whatever? As
an example; would Owens Corning EcoTouch Unfaced be appropriate?


Thank you

I use the industrial tiles that have no adhesive. But if they make some with adhesive than all the better. Or at least that makes it easy.

The R rating in fiberglass is in regards to how thick it is. Since you will likely be pulling it apart anyway then it really doesn't matter.

bdp24

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #383 on: 20 Nov 2013, 09:52 am »
The tiles that have adhesive (peel-and-stick) are low-mass vinyl, about 1/16" thick, and pretty flexible. The tiles you want to use are the Commercial Composite tiles, which are not peel-and-stick, are about 1/8" thick, and not flexible. A 12 X 12 square weighs about a-pound-and-a-half, a box of thirty weighing 45 lbs! You can use contact cement to attach them to the interior walls of your cabinets. I found a bunch of them at Lowe's last spring, clearance priced at twelve cents apiece, I believe it was. I bought 'em all! I've seen them since regularly priced at about eighty cents each, both at Lowe's and Home Depot. The peel-and-stick vinyl tiles are soft, and a box cutter blade will go right through them. The composites are kind of brittle, so to get them to size, you score them with a blade, set the tile down on your work surface with the score line right over an edge, and snap it in two with the heel of your hand.

Danny Richie

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #384 on: 20 Nov 2013, 02:25 pm »
The tiles that have adhesive (peel-and-stick) are low-mass vinyl, about 1/16" thick, and pretty flexible. The tiles you want to use are the Commercial Composite tiles, which are not peel-and-stick, are about 1/8" thick, and not flexible. A 12 X 12 square weighs about a-pound-and-a-half, a box of thirty weighing 45 lbs! You can use contact cement to attach them to the interior walls of your cabinets. I found a bunch of them at Lowe's last spring, clearance priced at twelve cents apiece, I believe it was. I bought 'em all! I've seen them since regularly priced at about eighty cents each, both at Lowe's and Home Depot. The peel-and-stick vinyl tiles are soft, and a box cutter blade will go right through them. The composites are kind of brittle, so to get them to size, you score them with a blade, set the tile down on your work surface with the score line right over an edge, and snap it in two with the heel of your hand.

Yep, that's the good stuff.

Oscillate

Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #385 on: 21 Nov 2013, 03:19 am »
I can understand how the dense vinyl tiles would help with resonance
control ...but doesn't it color the sound from the speaker? Wouldn't
the sound of a vinyl lined enclosure versus wood be akin to the sound
a polypropylene speaker cone produces versus a paper one?

Danny Richie

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #386 on: 21 Nov 2013, 03:44 am »
I can understand how the dense vinyl tiles would help with resonance
control ...but doesn't it color the sound from the speaker? Wouldn't
the sound of a vinyl lined enclosure versus wood be akin to the sound
a polypropylene speaker cone produces versus a paper one?

No, it does not color the sound. It takes away coloration added by the resonances of the cabinet panels.

Big Stogie

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #387 on: 7 Jan 2014, 03:11 pm »
I still have a couple of the MWF15 subwoofers I bought from you do you have the ported box plan from those?
THANKS!

Danny Richie

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #388 on: 7 Jan 2014, 03:42 pm »
I still have a couple of the MWF15 subwoofers I bought from you do you have the ported box plan from those?
THANKS!

I never had box plans for those woofers. Mark Seaton came up with that design.

vlad335

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #389 on: 11 Feb 2014, 12:24 am »
Ordered a set of X-LS Encores today. Starting on the boxes tonight and hope to get the parts by Friday to put them together over the weekend. Really excited about this and can't wait. May start a build thread here on this forum.

I ordered these without the Sonicap upgrades. Mostly because of funds. However, I have recently been recapping older speakers using Sonicaps and the difference is incredible in the tweeter circuits. Detail, dynamics, and clarity go off the charts. These will be used as monitors for my computer setup coupled with a DIY sub (Tangband 8") and I will be in a position to really hear the difference with the Sonicap upgrade as I listen to my computer setup everyday.

Trying to decide if I should make the 0.5cu ft. boxes sealed or port them per the plans and just plug the ports if need be. If I were to go sealed, what is the optimum box volume in Cu Ft. to get a good bass alignment?


vlad335

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #390 on: 11 Feb 2014, 01:00 am »
Trying to decide if I should make the 0.5cu ft. boxes sealed or port them per the plans and just plug the ports if need be. If I were to go sealed, what is the optimum box volume in Cu Ft. to get a good bass alignment?

Ok. Playing around in WinISD I am getting a 0.8cu ft box size for a Q of .69 sealed with the M165 driver. Is this correct or did I mess up entering the driver parameters? ( I have done that before in this program.)

If this is correct... Can I modify the box size, keeping the same baffle width and driver spacing from the top of course, while making it somewhat taller and deeper to reach the target size?

Camaroman

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #391 on: 11 Feb 2014, 01:01 am »
I researched DIY kits pretty heavily for a week now. Just ordered an mtm kit from Danny today. My first.  THANKS Danny for the prompt replies! I can't wait! Anyway, just fyi, the peel and stick floor tiles may come loose. They need to be applied with LOTS of pressure to stay. Hard once the cabinet is assembled. They do make thicker vinyl tiles these days, which are easily scored and cut. Around 3/8 thick. Recommend applying with glue/construction adhesive/etc.  Avoid peel and stick if possible. (that, is in my arena of experience) As I like things SOLID, I'm considering cabinets that have a layer of cement board inside. Cement board (like for ceramic tile installation) is available in 1/4 to 1/2 thicknesses. PL400 subfloor adhesive is AWESOME stuff. Bonds to almost anything. Hardens HARD. Like concrete. And will bond cement board, or almost anything, to wood. I don't even have a plan for the cabinets yet, but I think either this set, or my next more "extreme effort" set, will be wood over cement board. ( or, from a construction standpoint, cabinets constructed with the ID's 1/2 inch bigger than spec, and cement board cut and glued to the interior) 1/2 or 3/4 inch wood solidly bonded to 1/2 inch cement board will make for solid! As for damping, I'm no expert. But my gut tells me that "heavy, somewhat sluggish but compliant" is what's needed.

vlad335

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More thinking out loud...
« Reply #392 on: 11 Feb 2014, 02:45 am »
All this hand wringing will most likely be moot. 

Planning to add a miniDSP 2x4 out of my soundcard which will split the outputs to my sub and satellites. http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
Right now the stereo speakers are running full range and the sub is rolled off using it's plate amp. With the miniDSP I can crossover the sats and sub at say 80hz and have EQ and even perform measurements using their calibrated mic. Wonderful unit!

With these capabilities the bass alignment would not be extremely critical correct? I will most likely build these 0.5cf ported as per the plans and if needed, plug the ports with foam.

Sorry for getting overly analytical about a $150 speaker kit.




Danny Richie

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #393 on: 11 Feb 2014, 03:08 am »
Ok. Playing around in WinISD I am getting a 0.8cu ft box size for a Q of .69 sealed with the M165 driver. Is this correct or did I mess up entering the driver parameters? ( I have done that before in this program.)

If this is correct... Can I modify the box size, keeping the same baffle width and driver spacing from the top of course, while making it somewhat taller and deeper to reach the target size?

A .528 cubic foot box is the optimal sealed box volume.

You can add a little depth or height, just don't reduce depth to add height. You want to avoid a square shape.

Danny Richie

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Re: More thinking out loud...
« Reply #394 on: 11 Feb 2014, 03:14 am »
All this hand wringing will most likely be moot. 

Planning to add a miniDSP 2x4 out of my soundcard which will split the outputs to my sub and satellites. http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
Right now the stereo speakers are running full range and the sub is rolled off using it's plate amp. With the miniDSP I can crossover the sats and sub at say 80hz and have EQ and even perform measurements using their calibrated mic. Wonderful unit!

With these capabilities the bass alignment would not be extremely critical correct? I will most likely build these 0.5cf ported as per the plans and if needed, plug the ports with foam.

Sorry for getting overly analytical about a $150 speaker kit.

Actually the use of a miniDSp will unnecessarily degrade the signal and collapse the sound stage. I know, it looks like a fun toy. But the D/A converter is about equal to a $49 CD player from Walmart. They do not sound good.

Allow the speakers to play full range then naturally roll in the sub. To cross in the mid 60's you'll need to set the dial on your sub to about 50Hz or so. Keep in mind that your crossover point will be where they are each 6db down. And the lower the crossover point the easier it is to integrate. So if the X-LS is ported then you can cross to the sub in the low 50's, and blend even smoother.

vlad335

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Re: More thinking out loud...
« Reply #395 on: 11 Feb 2014, 03:55 am »
Actually the use of a miniDSp will unnecessarily degrade the signal and collapse the sound stage. I know, it looks like a fun toy. But the D/A converter is about equal to a $49 CD player from Walmart. They do not sound good.

Allow the speakers to play full range then naturally roll in the sub. To cross in the mid 60's you'll need to set the dial on your sub to about 50Hz or so. Keep in mind that your crossover point will be where they are each 6db down. And the lower the crossover point the easier it is to integrate. So if the X-LS is ported then you can cross to the sub in the low 50's, and blend even smoother.

Thank you very much. Makes sense.

I googled "minidsp poor d/a converter" and came up with a bunch of links bashing this unit. Apparently it clips easily as well.

Funny, the company must be paying some serious money to the search engines because just "miniDSP" plugged into Bing or Google brings glowing accolades.

A shame really. Something like the miniDSP would be very useful in many applications. I was even considering the bigger units to go between my Home Theater preamp and amps and utilizing REW.

EDIT: Deleted rant about shipping charges. Didn't realize this company is located in China.

Anyway... Thanks for saving me some cash!

Danny Richie

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Re: More thinking out loud...
« Reply #396 on: 11 Feb 2014, 04:13 am »
Thank you very much. Makes sense.

I googled "minidsp poor d/a converter" and came up with a bunch of links bashing this unit. Apparently it clips easily as well.

Funny, the company must be paying some serious money to the search engines because just "miniDSP" plugged into Bing or Google brings glowing accolades.

EDIT: Deleted rant about shipping charges. Didn't realize this company is located in China.

Anyway... Thanks for saving me some cash!

There is a reason why they don't cost anything.

vlad335

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #397 on: 15 Feb 2014, 07:11 pm »
Thinking of going with these cabinets. Perhaps putting the ports on the front.
I like the added height.

http://www.parts-express.com/knock-down-mdf-056-cu-ft-bookshelf-speaker-cabinet--300-7064

Have a problem with cutting MDF here in the basement. Think I am allergic to it ( Rash) and the last time one of my cat's was losing hair afterward. Nasty stuff. I can do a quick cutout of the driver holes in the garage if need be.

Or. Buy a pair of these...

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-mb50-blank-baffle-for-050-cu-ft-cabinet--302-729

Make the cabs from 3/4" Baltic Birch and also have removable baffles.

Danny Richie

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #398 on: 15 Feb 2014, 08:04 pm »
Thinking of going with these cabinets. Perhaps putting the ports on the front.
I like the added height.

http://www.parts-express.com/knock-down-mdf-056-cu-ft-bookshelf-speaker-cabinet--300-7064

Have a problem with cutting MDF here in the basement. Think I am allergic to it ( Rash) and the last time one of my cat's was losing hair afterward. Nasty stuff. I can do a quick cutout of the driver holes in the garage if need be.

Or. Buy a pair of these...

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-mb50-blank-baffle-for-050-cu-ft-cabinet--302-729

Make the cabs from 3/4" Baltic Birch and also have removable baffles.

Not enough room on those for a front port. Put it in the back and those will work out.

I prefer MDF myself. It is slightly denser and easier to work with. And it is less expensive too.

vlad335

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Re: Best deal on loudspeaker kits ever.
« Reply #399 on: 15 Feb 2014, 08:30 pm »
Thanks for the reply!

Not enough room on those for a front port. Put it in the back and those will work out.

Question about the ports supplied with the kit. Do they need cut down or use as is?

Quote
I prefer MDF myself. It is slightly denser and easier to work with. And it is less expensive too.

I do as well but cannot tolerate the dust. Usually cut it outside but thats not going to happen for awhile with this weather.