First Tube Amplifier, problems already (New Impressions)!

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davidrs

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Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #40 on: 3 Feb 2011, 07:27 pm »
What are your initial impressions?

Happy with the tubed experience within your system and room?

kingdeezie

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Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #41 on: 3 Feb 2011, 07:33 pm »
What are your initial impressions?

Happy with the tubed experience within your system and room?

I am not quite sure how I feel actually.

The initial issues with the amp begs the question of reliability with me. I do a lot of listening with both music and HT viewing, and I at this point I am very distrustful of the amplifier. The tube that caused me so much headache looked okay to me on visual inspection....

So, how do I know when the hell another tube is going to explode and take out my amp again? There is no warning signs I feel like. One second I could be jamming, the next a loud pop, and the music has stopped.

Does it sound better? Yes, at this point I think so. I am going to let it sink in for a few more days.

But, the biggest question is, does the risk equal the benefits?

Do I think that the Pass was that less musical then the Manley to warrant having to always worry about a tube blowing?

Not sure.

S Clark

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Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #42 on: 3 Feb 2011, 07:56 pm »
Before I had kids, my wife and I bought a classic 1955 T-bird in good, but unrestored condition.  In 1955, Ford still had 6V wiring, and the batteries didn't turn the starters very fast.  If the engine didn't start pretty quick, the battery went down.  It wasn't too long before the wife got stranded.  I changed everything over to 12V and solved the problem, but the wife never trusted the car again, and could find no joy in driving it.  I finally sold that beautiful auto- fortunately for a profit. 

You may in a similar situation. Manleys are desirable amps and have a reasonably strong resale market.  You clearly are not longer excited about your amp..."Do I think that the Pass was that less musical then the Manley to warrant having to always worry about a tube blowing? Not sure. "  Perhaps you might move on and try something different, or at a different time.  Life is too short - get something that you feel you can trust. For me, I like tubes, but I always have a spare if one goes to the shop. (Actually I have more than one spare   :shh: )

TONEPUB

Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #43 on: 3 Feb 2011, 08:22 pm »
And that's why as much as I love tubes, they are my secondary system, not the primary.  I realize not everyone has that luxury....

Hopefully, though it will be painless moving forward!  Those are great amps.



BobRex

Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #44 on: 3 Feb 2011, 08:44 pm »
Put this into proper perspective.  Anything can break.  I've been running tubes in both preamps and amplifiers for 30 years and I've only ever lost 2 tubes.  Granted both were output tubes, and exotic 2A3s at that, but both went after 5 years of service, so I can't complain.

The difference between a tube going and a transistor going is that the average person can replace a tube.  In this case the tube took out a resistor.  Yeah, that can happen depending upon the design (Audio Research was notorious for this), but it's not that common.

I used to work at a B&M store that was actually a warranty repair station for a number of companies.  We did a good business repairing both tube and SS equipment, but at any given time there was more SS needing repair than tube.  Yes, there was more SS equipment sold than tube, but my point is that they both break, and they both can break catastrophically.

Your concern over tube (and tube equipment) reliability is based upon one instance. Please don't let that sour you against the piece.

SteveFord

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Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #45 on: 4 Feb 2011, 12:59 am »
To answer your question, I've had really good service from the Tube Depot up in Canada.  Expert advice, instant shipping and no problems if you get a bum tube.

There's lots of good vendors but they've always been good to me. 

I think that your troubles are behind you but they're you're amps, though.  They'll go really fast if you pop them back on Audiogon.

hibuckhobby

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Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #46 on: 4 Feb 2011, 02:31 pm »
On electrical equipment parts fail...and my experience is like yours:  If it's going to fail, it's gonna happen to me  :o   With that said, I've been running tubes in one iteration or another for nearly 20 years now and have had two tube failures.

As far as being w/o warning...the same is true for transistors and they can look perfectly good and be bad.  I've been dabbling in a lot of vintage stuff for a couple of years now and have had my share of surprises.

Just enjoy them.  Manley is good stuff and should serve you well.
Hibuck....

kingdeezie

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Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already!
« Reply #47 on: 10 Feb 2011, 05:17 pm »
So, I wanted to update this thread with about a week of listening under my belt on these babies, with so far (crossing fingers) no issues at all.

After letting the initial issue go after having fixed the amps last week I decided to sit down and listen with the intent of forming a relationship with these babies. With some great things said on this thread after my initial listening post, I decided perhaps it was best to analyze the sound instead of analyzing what could happen if a tubed failed again.

Initially I noted that the amplifiers sounded very similar to the Pass Amplifier I had before, and to an extent I still stand behind this reaction.

Tonally speaking, on first dimensional basis, I think that both amplifiers really nail timbre very well. Instruments sound like I believe they should in real life. However, here is where the differences end.

In my system, to my ears, I most definitely, one hundred percent prefer the Manley 250s in triode mode. I have not yet kicked the amplifier into pentode mode, as I have fallen in love with triode mode. My speakers are fairly efficient, and my room smallish, so I find the 100 watts of triode mode more then plenty to satisfy me volume wise.

First, let me get out of the way the things the Pass did BETTER.

1) Dynamics. I find the Pass Labs has the slight edge in dynamics and punch.
2) Transparency. I find the Pass Labs to have presented me with a slightly "cleaner" window to the music.
3) Bass extension. 

Now, let me get to what the Manleys do BETTER.

1) Music.  :lol: Just a little humor...

1 For Real) Timbre. I mentioned before that I thought that the Pass and the Manleys were very close here, and I still feel so. However, I feel that the Manleys do it just a little better. Vocals are really where I found the Manleys to pull the furthest a head. The Manleys present the human voice with more naturalness and that slighest bit of warmth in male voices to really make you feel like the vocalist is there in front of you.

2) Resolution. Some people might think this conflicts with my note that the Pass has better transparency, but while the Pass was "clearer," the Manleys are more informationally dense. For example, lets take someone picking a guitar. With the Pass you could hear the pick hit the guitar very precisely and delineated. With the Manleys, you lose the slightest bit of delineation, but instead of just hearing the guitar pick hit the string, and then the chord that is produced by the action, you hear the "in between" of the transaction between the pick and the string. You hear the material of the string romancing the material of the pick; and you get the little bit more to make it seem more real.

3) Layering. No contest here IMO. The Manleys, and probably by extension, tube amplifiers, best the Pass in layering of the detail and information in a 3D space; front to back, side to side.

I am really loving the Manleys, so much so that I have to talk myself out of saving up to buy a new pair to have them in most pristine condition possible; I feel like I might want them for life. Or course, some of us audiophools are fickle; but this one feels different for real.

Am I completely happy with my system yet? Not quite, but I feel like I have a solid platform to play off of now.

There is still some "grunge" in the system, which is the best way I can describe it, but it has always been there.

I have a Synergistic Research Powercell 10SE for conditioning, but I feel like I now need to finish power cabling out my equipment now that I think I found a good match between them.

I also am using radio shack speaker cables since I need 16 feet of cable, and havent been able to find 16 feet of speaker cable from a solid brand for under a kidney.

I also just ordered some Herbies footers for my source.

A completion of all these things I feel should remove the remaining "grunge" and "noise," and leave me with a pretty solid system.
 :thumb:
     

Ericus Rex

Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already (New Impressions)!
« Reply #48 on: 10 Feb 2011, 05:50 pm »
Glad to read you're liking what you hear.  Tubes certainly are a labor of love   :thumb:

TomS

Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already (New Impressions)!
« Reply #49 on: 10 Feb 2011, 05:52 pm »
Glad to hear you've worked it all out and have some tube joy  :thumb:

On the speaker cables I think someone had a 16' pair of Reality Cables for sale recently in the trading post. They've beaten all comers in my system over the years, are very solidly built, and represent a terrific bargain, especially in the longer lengths. Worth a try.

Tom

Berto

Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already (New Impressions)!
« Reply #50 on: 10 Feb 2011, 06:31 pm »
Always been interested in those Pass amps, so good to know the differences that you hear on a top quality tube amp.

Not sure what speaks you have but I put some of those herbies studded gliders under my speaks and it was a real nice uptick in SQ. I was impressed. Also love my sablon audio robusto PCs, as they got rid of all my grunge, backgrounds are scary black now. Both can be returned if not happy.

Enjoy :thumb:

roscoeiii

Re: First Tube Amplifier, problems already (New Impressions)!
« Reply #51 on: 10 Feb 2011, 06:57 pm »
And those impressions of Pass vs. tubes ring true in my experience too (compared to an Atma-sphere S-30 in my case). Well said. If your speakers can handle them, the First Watt line does give a variety of sonic signatures, which are summed up quit well in the 6moons reviews of the line.