which system would you chose?

jasoncroft · « **on:** 20 Jan 2011, 04:15 pm »

I have a chance of two systems.
to demo either system is not possible so i am
interested in hearing views on these two.

first system
cd player
Usher cd7 (second hand offer is £250)
a link of a site selling it http://www.hifigear.co.uk/usher-cd7-cd-player.html

amp
maverick audio A1

second system choice is
amp virtue audio one or two.2
Cd player is virtue piano cd player

I will carry on using my speakers i have now.
I will provide a link with a picture and spec's
http://www.roydaudio.com/models/minstrel/

any idea's on other systems around the same price point
would be helpful though of the two systems i like the virtue the most because of the looks.
I'm not really into the idea of a full valve amp due to setting the Bias.

pity i can not get to demo really but no shops
here sell the kit and the one hi fi shop near by in the nearest city only sells kit that does not interest me.
i know as i have heard the kit they sell.
that kit being rega/naim and lin and rotel/nad.

muscally for me it is folk and pop and opera with some rock thrown in from time to time.
i also have cd-r's from bands of friends and some of my cd's have a sound that you woulds not call audiophile.

thanks all.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 04:27 pm »

In reviewing the specs of the Royds, they are fairly low efficiency (87dB), and I would wonder if the 20wpc Maverick would drive them to levels you are comfortable with?

The Virtue 2.2 runs 87wpc into 4 ohms, let's assume 44 wpc into 8 ohm, that is still some extra headroom for you, to drive them a little better. BUT, that seems to be only with the swanky high end power supply. On the stock PS, the Virtue 2.2 appears to produce about 30wpc into 8 ohms, so pretty close in terms of power overall.

Based on my own experiments with low powered tube amps, and Tripath or class D amps, for lower efficiency speakers I would go to the digital amp personally.

Of your amp choices, I would lean towards the Virtue. Pretty glowing review here off 6Moons. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/virtueaudio/5.html

As for the cd player, well I have not heard it, but $699 sure does buy a lot of USB DAC these days, or a Logitech Duet or Classic etc - have you considered using a PC as a source? Sure, I ask because I do, but I also think you might want to consider it!

jasoncroft · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 04:43 pm »

Thanks for the advice.
no i have never thought of using my laptop
i worry if i broke my laptop or lost it i would lose all my music.
i also wonder if it would sound as good as a cd player.
i have to admit it does appeal in a way but i just love cd's players.
plus i don't like having to have my laptop on whenever i want to play music.
i did try playing music from a usb stick thing but i stopped as
i enjoyed using a cd more.
if i have the choice i would always rather buy a cd then download the album.
even if it cost more to buy the cd.
i like cd's as i can feel them,hold them,i have something solid to show for my outlay.
i guess though that one day i will have to go the digital path but for now i would rather
stick with a cd player

i may sometime in the future upgrade my speakers.
i did take a look at open baffles designs and fullrange speakers like omega range.
the sellers i sent a mesg to have still to reply.

BobC · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 05:08 pm »

I hear ya, and felt the same way. But went the Logitech Duet / Touch route and have no regrets.

I still buy the CD's too, but immediately rip to my computer and simply save the CD as backup. Now all my collection is flac on my HD and backed up on an external HD as well. CD's are all organized and boxed in a storage room.

FLAC from home PC > wireless to the Duet > digital out to a Cambridge DACMagic > analog out to my preamp. When compared side-by-side againt my Oppo 83 I prefer the sound of my Duet / DACMagic combo. YMMV

jasoncroft · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 05:33 pm »

Do you not have delay problems.
like when you view videos online you get buffing
or when your wireless connection may go weak does it affect the music?
instead of using hhd space on the laptop is it possible to just store all the music on
hhd and just connect them to the laptop?
and is the sound really as good as a cd player?

So how much did your system cost you?

if my questions above sound daft,bare in mind i know nothing about hearing music via a pc
i do not even know alot about what flac is apart from that it is loseless but that is all.
i would have no idea how to rip music to my laptop in a flac way.
when i have bought music online because i could not find it in cd form
it is always in mp3 form and not flac
i always thought when i rip a cd to my laptop it is loseless anyway if i chose the higher option

BobC · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 06:12 pm »

I do not suffer a delay...well maybe 1/2 second now and then, but it doesnt bother me.

I believe you can connect an external HD or flash drive directly to the Touch via USB, but I haven't tried this. No need because my wireless works fine. However you can also make a wired ethernet connection if you need to.

The Duet by itself probably wont outperform a nice CD player. Thats why I use the DAC. My Duet / DACMagic (to my ears!) sounds better than my current Oppo 83 and better than my old Arcam DV78.

Costs are readily available via Amazon, others...but off the top of my head the Duet was about $350 and the DAC was maybe $450, so my front end = about $800. Theres plenty of <$500 DACs out there. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a <$800 CDP that dramatically beats a Squeezebox / DAC combo. My opinion.

Of course if you use your LT, then you can put more towards the DAC, or save money.

Plus there are other benefits that a CDP can never have:
1. music organization
2. album art
3. no time standing if front of a wall of CD's trying to decide what to pick out
4. internet radio / Pandora - love pandora.
5. great for parties
6. favorites / playlists
7. easy file management for use in a portable player

Seriously dude, after going the server route, buying a stand alone CDP is now out of the question.

But this is my experience. Not everyone feels the same.

BobC · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 06:15 pm »

Downside of course is that you need to rip your collection. This takes some time if its large. Just be sure to rip lossless, like flac.

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 07:10 pm »

But using a computer versus CDP means you need to have the computer in the room to control it or have a Sonus/Duet/Touch with wireless connection. Plus you need to add hard drives for primary storage and backup. Plus you can't simply pull a CD off the shelf and "just listen" (it must be ripped, with any cover information/art downloaded, and it must be catalogged). And of course its harder to pull your source out of the system to try out elsewhere (say a friend's place).

And the system is much more complex, and so prone to failure. Yes its slick and the way of the future, and potentially better sounding for the price (at some price point).

Just my 6 month experience with EAC, FLAC, and wired/wireless modded Squeezebox 3. I'm back to a CDP (transport) and DAC.

eclein · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 07:21 pm »

Just over a year ago I starting reading about "Squeezebox" this and "SB" that and at that time I had started ripping CD's to my laptop, not a large collection then. I struggled finding a way to stream my music from my laptop to my PS3 or anywhere for that matter. I bought a used Squeezebox DUET on ebay, wired it into my router, did the install thing and right away I realized that the sound quality, convenience of this type setup was awesome.

I use a Virtue TWO.2 as my amp, a Virtue Piano M1 CD Player for CD's and the Squeezebox for streaming wav files and both are input into a Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09 that serves as a DAC, Pre-amp, Tube Buffer...lots of options for $200. I buy used CD's on Amazon, or half.com and rip them to wav files on my laptop and store them on racks in case the urge hits to spin a cd in the Piano. Its the finest setup I'v ever owned, clean, crisp, tight bass, and the tonal qualities I love.
The SB DUET is controlled by an app called ipeng on my ipod touch...swipe, tap, and MUSIC!!!! My entire music collection in the palm of my hand and with just a tap I can play any song, album I want.
Now that I filled the laptop I'm thinking about a vortexbox, buy the CD, rip it in the VB, file it away, flick and pick your music. I use the DAC to convert the files and add the tube flavor but the Duet has a DAC also so you got options.
Total cost: Audio Side Total cost: PC Side
SB-DUET = $100 VAIO = $1400 (Vortexbox server can be built for $250 shipped-thats next)
Tube Dac= $200 Router=$ 80
TWO. 2 = $500 Internet$ 60/mo.
Piano M1 = $600

CD's sound the best on the Piano M1, and thats my preference
but the Squeezebox DUET<DAC<TWO.2 combo is by far the most convenient.
In the next year I'll have a Vortexbox for all my files, and Piano CD Player for disks. I might be changing my amp and using this little tube amp only but the cool thing is if you keep as many options available as you change gear and upgrade and you won't get stuck, You can do alot these days with very little money....I just thought this might help as I have been through the same kind thought process.

jasoncroft · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 07:39 pm »

Thankyou.
you have given me much food for thought.
can i ask if you were to use a VortexBox 1TB Automatic CD ripping NAS
would that mean you would not have to use your laptop in the playing of music process
you just would rip them to the vortexBox and then connect then VortexBox to a Dac that you would then connect to the amp?

If this is the case then it seems alot more easy method then a squeezebox duet or touch
as it would cut the pc/laptop out all together.
though it will not allow me to play internet radio as this has made me think
about the music services i heard you can get online where you pay a monthly fee
and get access to a large music selection.
i believe real player provides this service.

can i ask what speakers your using in your system?

thanks again for the idea's

Quote from: eclein on 20 Jan 2011, 07:21 pm

Just over a year ago I starting reading about "Squeezebox" this and "SB" that and at that time I had started ripping CD's to my laptop, not a large collection then. I struggled finding a way to stream my music from my laptop to my PS3 or anywhere for that matter. I bought a used Squeezebox DUET on ebay, wired it into my router, did the install thing and right away I realized that the sound quality, convenience of this type setup was awesome.

I use a Virtue TWO.2 as my amp, a Virtue Piano M1 CD Player for CD's and the Squeezebox for streaming wav files and both are input into a Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09 that serves as a DAC, Pre-amp, Tube Buffer...lots of options for $200. I buy used CD's on Amazon, or half.com and rip them to wav files on my laptop and store them on racks in case the urge hits to spin a cd in the Piano. Its the finest setup I'v ever owned, clean, crisp, tight bass, and the tonal qualities I love.
The SB DUET is controlled by an app called ipeng on my ipod touch...swipe, tap, and MUSIC!!!! My entire music collection in the palm of my hand and with just a tap I can play any song, album I want.
Now that I filled the laptop I'm thinking about a vortexbox, buy the CD, rip it in the VB, file it away, flick and pick your music. I use the DAC to convert the files and add the tube flavor but the Duet has a DAC also so you got options.
Total cost: Audio Side Total cost: PC Side
SB-DUET = $100 VAIO = $1400 (Vortexbox server can be built for $250 shipped-thats next)
Tube Dac= $200 Router=$ 80
TWO. 2 = $500 Internet$ 60/mo.
Piano M1 = $600

CD's sound the best on the Piano M1, and thats my preference
but the Squeezebox DUET<DAC<TWO.2 combo is by far the most convenient.
In the next year I'll have a Vortexbox for all my files, and Piano CD Player for disks. I might be changing my amp and using this little tube amp only but the cool thing is if you keep as many options available as you change gear and upgrade and you won't get stuck, You can do alot these days with very little money....I just thought this might help as I have been through the same kind thought process.

eclein · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:29 pm »

I collect old JBL's from Craigslist.....I have 5 vintage pair the most of which cost me $70 but I also got a subwoofer and AV receiver...

I'd get my laptop back for doing its thing and the VB would store all my music files, they can even do video I'm told.
The Vortexbox just sends the file to the router to my Squeezbox Duet. The Squeezebox has built in apps so you can get streaming music from the web as it is connected to the router.

Currently:
Laptop < Router < SqueezeBox DUET < DAC < AMP < Speakers....all controlled by ipeng app on my ipod touch.
Virtue Piano M1 < DAC < AMP < Speakers
Future:
Vortexbox < Router < Squeezebox Duet < DAC < AMP < Speakers...all controlled by ipeng app on my ipod touch.
Virtue Piano M1 < DAC < AMP < SPeakers

I may eliminate the DAC/Pre and build a switch and volume control using the DUETS analog outputs and the Piano M1's analog outputs
my new tube amp has a volume control that I may eliminate..the tube amp only has one input thats why I need switcher. The Squeezebox simplifies everything....its the player of the files stored on VB and feeds the DAC or AMP

mcgsxr · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:39 pm »

Sorry I started the whole PC as source thing, but the improvements over the past year have made it easier to get up and running, and I could never go back.

I rip all my music as soon as I buy it, and have not spun a disc (other than in the car) in closing on 4 years.

To answer your specific question, if you bought and installed the Vortexbox appliance, you would then not need to run your laptop. You would need to choose a piece of hardware to "get the music out". It could be a USB DAC, or one of the Logitech devices many of us use.

The major advantage of the Vortexbox appliance is the sheer simplicity - it runs out of the box, rips automatically (you literally just put a disc in, and it reads it and copies it in both MP3 and FLAC onto the internal HD), it automatically finds your Logitech devices if you have any etc. The use of an iTouch (I also run iPeng), laptop wirelessly allows you control over your entire music collection.

That said, it is not perfect, and some have had issues with certain USB DAC's (they have a forum that highlights the compatible ones), some are not comfortable using another device to wirelessly control it etc.

Back on your original question though, it sounds like eclein is happy with the sound of the Piano cd player, so that could be the ticket for simplicity.

eclein · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:46 pm »

Ultimately my preference is playing CD's on the Piano 1st, then comes Squeezebox...when its late and I'm chillin, too lazy to get up, or in bed controlling the music to sleep by with the ipod.

NastyChipmonk · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:58 pm »

The ripping (lossless, of course) and playing that on the system does not mean that you can't have the other media as well.

My 'good' system has the turntable, SACD and a mac mini pumping out to a DAC to my pre-amp. In all honesty, not much between the three, although the SACD is a bit brighter (too bright?) than The DAC, and vinyl (if a good pressing) is tops.

The remainder of the house has systems that are fed from satellite, CD and Apple Airport Expresses that I send music from a remote PC, which I can control from the iPhone or iPad playing lossless or internet radio.

The convenience is awesome. The quality is still better than what most people listen to.

eclein · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 09:24 pm »

My setup is in my cave (bedroom) and having both ways to go is very convenient, I have health issues so sometimes I'm not up to changing CD's and just play music through the SB...I'm not experiencing any sound quality loss by listening to the PC files, its just different than the Piano CD Player...I played a bunch of tunes one day for another AC member and when he was told it was wav file he said "well that sounds great"....I started from scratch with my system and luckily happened upon AC at the same time so I read everything and choose stuff and always tried to have options.

The Virtue stuff, both amp and Cd player just sound excellent together....so if your picking, I'd go Virtue TWO.2 and Piano M1...get the 30/130 power supply for the amp, they sound great with that unit.
I have the Maverick A1 here that was touring and it just seemed underpowered to me, I kept thinking the whole time I was using it, its got no balls. The Virtue stuff has THE sound, whatever that is its a good thing.

lcrim · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 11:08 pm »

When a CD is ripped by either EAC or dBpoweramp it is usually checked for accuracy against AccurateRip or one of the other online music dBs. A CD player is constrained by time from doing this type of checking. In addition, magnetic impulses on a hard drive are more accurate than reading laser reflections off the pits and lands of an optical disk.
The belief that you search a disk on a shelf quicker than on a dB on disc is totally ridiculous.
Buy the CD player, in a few short years it will be a museum piece like a record player.

jasoncroft · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 11:20 pm »

Thankyou guys for the advice.
never thought i'd say this but i'm really am giving the network player serious thought.
I found some sites here in the uk as here we can not access some of the music sites mentioned
seems one of them offers ten millon tracks and adds more all the time and i can access
them for £4.99 advert free.
that in itself is very tempting.

eclein · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 11:33 pm »

Enjoy!!!!!! Whatever you do let us know what you did and maybe we can help you get better sound, there are lot of tweaks out there.
If you go network player..I'd say -Squeezebox Touch is the way....its not real expensive and if you don't like it, heck I'll buy it off ya!!!
Have fun!!!

jasoncroft · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 11:52 pm »

I will do.
can i ask how does the duet differ to the touch?
there much of a difference?

Also has anyone tried https://shop.mp3tunes.com/myaccount/registration/
it seems you get 2gb for free and then you pay for more space
you can then uploaded your music and access it from any pc in the world.
i believe you can also stream it, that way it would take away the need
for cd player and a extra hdd.

eclein · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Jan 2011, 12:02 am »

The touch has better digital to analog conversion chip I'm told. If you intend on using a DAC its not a huge thing, its the latest and greatest version and gives you "options", the direct USB connection if you need it some time down the road. I found a DUET receiver only online when I got mine and had to set it up without the remote, it was only $100 so I jumped, its worth it to just get the touch, simple setup more future proof.

I have not checked out the streaming services myself, I get better quality sound from my stuff locally without grabbing a stream. Go for it though and let us know.