[Wind Chaser]

Out in the prairies one can get away without snow tires if they drive accordingly.  Even if you have snow tires, you should still respect the road conditions.  Every year come the first real snowfall it seems like accident city.  Between all the new drivers and the plain stupid it makes for a bad day for the insurance companies.

Having relocated from the prairies to one of the nicest parts in Western Canada, snow is hardly a concern any more.  Currently there's none on the ground and the largest snowfall we've had so far was about 2 inches, which lasted 3 days.  I feel for you people out east.  Winter absolutely and totally sucks.

[blutto]

another thumbs up for the Nokian WR G2...great all weather tire we use into the shoulder seasons, the early winter and early spring...but for the heart of winter Hakkapeliittas are put on ( our go-to car in the winter is a Subie Outback)...and in snow and on ice these are scary good ( Blizzak performance with several seasons of wear...and even good for the environment as the major ingredient for all Nokians is canola oil )...another option, which we use on our summer car, a Subie 2.5 GT, is the Continental Extreme Contact DWS, which is a sportier version of the WR G2 ( they both have the same asymmetrical tread design...and note in both cases these tires are absolutely just awesome in the rain )...

...the only draw-back for the WR G2/Conti is they really don't work well in very cold temperatures.......they lose their compliance and drive like bricks...this cold weather performance is the one huge advantage that true winter tires have, their compliance in very cold conditions, say below -10 degrees Centigrade ...and as was noted in an earlier post this is the major issue when using ordinary all-seasons in the winter..the WR G2/Conti DWS somehow had this problem designed out by some wizardry in the chem lab..as a result their compliance range is much broader, hence they are able to handle milder winter conditions as found is our Canadian shoulder seasons and on warmer winter days...

Cheers

blutto

[Diamond Dog]

I'd say that you may need to be concerned, it depends on how your roof is made.  I have that type of dam every year with no leaks.  I presume that there is ice and water shield under my shingles.

We've had a lot of problems with ice damming and it can really raise hell with your shingles, too. When the weather warms up and thawing starts, the ice dams can prevent proper drainage and force the water up under the shingles causing rapid deterioration. And of course. if the water finds a way into your home once it's under the shingles, you've got more damage. We've found that the best remedy is prevention - if possible get the snow accumulation off the roof with a snow rake or get some daredevil to go up there and remove it before huge dams form.

D. 

[django11]

the ice dams can prevent proper drainage and force the water up under the shingles causing rapid deterioration.

How does this deteriorate the shingles?

[Diamond Dog]

Oh yeah, right...tires ! For it's worth, here's my 2 cents ( CDN ). I come from the land of ice and snow and driving on all-seasons ( the term should be banned because if you are experiencing anything approaching a REAL winter, it will quickly become apparent that they are actually three-season tires and this ain't one of them ) in winter will have you shouting " Valhalla I am coming !!! " way too often as you slide towards death and destruction. Winter tires get you going faster from a stand-still and give you extra grip while you're moving but perhaps most importantly, they will stop your vehicle way sooner than all seasons. This matters. It REALLY matters as you slide towards the rear bumper of the guy ahead of you and you are wondering if you're going to stop in time as you brace for impact. I've done many winters on " all-seasons " and no way would I go ever back now that I've experienced the difference a good set of winter tires makes. Even on a vehicle with 4-wheel / all wheel drive.
Money well spent for sure!

D.

[thunderbrick]

How does this deteriorate the shingles?

I think more accurately it deteriorates the roof decking, leaking down through the plywood/OSB and causing the soffit, or even the roof rafters to rot.  If you don't have much of an roof overhang it could even wreck your drywall, sheathing, studs, you name it.  Ice and water dam is a rubbery material that goes about 3 feet up the roof or in roof valleys, much like the first pass of roofing felt.  Even if water gets under the shingles it will still drain properly instead of getting in where it can cause damage.

[Diamond Dog]

How does this deteriorate the shingles?

In the case of our condo association, there was a lot of curling,etc. - could be from freeze / thaw cycles once the water was under the shingles. Could be from the fact that shingles are designed to have water on the top surfaces- the undersides not so much.  Tough on the rest of the roof structures as well as the shingles. Our buildings are designed with a nightmarish collection of different roof pitches, peaks, etc. and are the terrors of the city for roofers, painters, chimney sweeps. But we digress. Tires, Django. Tires.

D.

[WerTicus]

I live in Australia where it never snows... but what about snow chains on normal tires?

Also tin roofs are awesome mate never a problem and you can get them in any colour you like

I also run semi slick tires in the months with no rain, Nothing like cornering at 130km/hr

In the rain however, proper directional tires are far better than ordinary non directional tires.

[john1970]

I live in New England and there are several hills in my area.  When I moved here six years ago I purchased studded Nokian snow tires for my front wheel drive Chevy Impala.  Last week we got hit by a snow storm that dumped almost two feet of snow.  I had no problems getting around.

Cheers,
John

[johzel]

I agree with anyone advocating snow/winter tires.  I've lived and driven in Wisconsin for all of my 57 years.  Once you go to snow tires you'll never go back.  Even when I drove Saabs and Audi (Quattros) I ran snow tires - usually Gislaveds or Blizzacks.  I'm currently running snow/ice tires from Michelin.  The key is getting away from low profile wide tires - they just fill with snow and then ride on top of the snow - well, only until you lose control and crash.  The one caveat on snow tires is ice (black ice) . . . other than studs (which aren't legal in our state except for some vehicles - emergency for example) I know of nothing that is entirely stable on ice. 

Regarding ice dams on roofs.  The biggest danger is water damage from the water that leaks through the roof as others have pointed out.  Most people who have seriously damaged their shingles (that I know of) did so when trying to remove the ice - usually with something sharp that damaged the shingles.  Snow rakes are great as is heat tape (little late for that).  I've also found that sky lights in roofs almost always get ice dams under them.  Although, when I reshingled last time I did put the protective "edge" or ice shield underneath the shingles (whatever you call that) and have been very happy with its performance.  I no longer use heat tape but do keep snow off the bottom 4 feet or so of my roof by using a snow rake. And I do have a valley where snow gathers under one of our sky lights that will require a shovel now and then - that can be a source of shingle damage, need to be careful with a shovel too.  Such are the joys of living in the frozen tundra.  Besides, ice dams give you something to do - you can't go ice fishing every day

[django11]

In the case of our condo association, there was a lot of curling,etc. - could be from freeze / thaw cycles once the water was under the shingles. Could be from the fact that shingles are designed to have water on the top surfaces- the undersides not so much.  But we digress. Tires, Django. Tires.

The OP did ask about the ice dams  .  IMO what is causing the damage to the shingles is the same thing that is causing the ice dams in the winter:  improper ventilation.  The heat from inside the building has nowhere to go but up.  In the summer the heat from below plus the sun curls the shingles.  In the winter that heat melts the snow and the water runs down until it is over an unheated place in the roof (usually the eaves) and freezes. Btw the shingles are waterproof all the way through, the only difference on top is the granule which are there to protect from the sun.

Around here I have seen condos such as yours with the crazy roofs with momentous ice dams and murderous icicles (like 8 feet long and two stories above the entrance stairs) . It seems that the designers of these buildings sacrificed good ventilation to esthetics. 

[twitch54]

Blizzaks are highly regarded

I concur, got 'em on all four corners of my FWD Impala and they work great in the snow !

[Diamond Dog]

The OP did ask about the ice dams  .  IMO what is causing the damage to the shingles is the same thing that is causing the ice dams in the winter:  improper ventilation.   

Right on both counts, sir. To add to this, I did some research last night as this has peaked my interest and I wanted to learn more.  One thing I learned was that once water gets under the shingles and into the underlay, the moisture can cause the shingles to curl. Also, it's not unlikely that there wasn't enough insulation installed in the areas under the roof where the ice damming occurs so the heat loss melts the snow which re-freezes and causes the ice etc. etc.
So to sum up : if you are concerned about ice damming : a) Ventilate ! b) Insulate !  and if you have a build-up of snow on the roof c) Remediate !

And get winter tires if you need em' !

D.



 the

[woodsyi]

I live just outside of DC and work in DC.  It doesn't matter what I have.  With 1/8th of an inch snow most folks around here freeze like deers on headlights and slow to a crawl.  Then we get gridlock on the road but we are used to it since that's all we do at Capitol Hill anyway.  Democrats and Republicans all get along just fine in a traffic gridlock since we have a common thing to bitch about. 

[Elizabeth]

For WerTicus. Chains are very effective, but incredibly noisy. In many states they are illegal to use on the freeways, same for studs in tires. Back when studs in tires first came out, they were very popular, and after a few years one could clearly see the damage they caused on the freeways, where the road surface was ground away. So studs in tires got banned.
Chains are sometimes 'required' use in some states with big mountains and snow. I was on a bus and we had to stop and the driver put on chains on the bus wheels! to drive down a mountain freeway. The Sheriff was stopping anyone who did not have chains, they would just have to wait until it stopped snowing!
=====================
Maybe i need to move to Australia.. Sounds like you get to drive fast, which I love to do.
One of my favorite activities is to drive around freeway curves at twice the posted speed limit. The local freeway 'deadmans' curve (truckers are always crashing there) i would usually go around  it at 95mph if traffic was thin. My favorite moment of my life was on that curve, I went around it a 95mph and a Japanese motorcycle was right next to me, we looked at each other at the end of the curve, I gave the guy a thumbs up sign, he pops a wheelie and takes off like I am standing still. I will always remember how cool that moment was.
However, here, my last ticket at 32 over the speed limit (which I was very lucky, as I was accelerating up to 130mph, and if the cop would have been a bit further down the road...I would have been in a LOT more trouble.) Lucky for me they dropped it down to three points against my driving record, instead of six. But i am nearly maxed out on violations and have to cool it for awhile, or lose my license.
Funny I used to speed ALL the time, way over the limit, and never got caught. Then as I got older, I tried to slow down, and Damn I get tickets all the time!
Karma?

[davidrs]

Funny I used to speed ALL the time, way ove the limit, and never got caught. Then as I got older, I tried to slow down, and Damn I get tickets all the time!
Karma?

Hint....

Two cars ahead. One behind. Radios. And a navigator next to you.

Elaborate buddy system.

Everyone gets their turn.

Have fun.

[thunderbrick]

Yeah, my father taught me that buddy system and it works great.

My rule #1?  Never crest a hill at high speed.  It wastes gas and makes you easy pickin's for the State Patrol.

Rule #2?  When rule #1 doesn't work, try to get the cop laughing and don't give him any crap.  You know damn well you were speeding.   

[davidrs]

... try to get the cop laughing and don't give him any crap.   

Plus,

Money in 9/10ths of the world, a surer bet. With humor, adjust amount downwards.

We had a small group of local cops running highly illegal motorcycle races in the very tight inner beltway of our city. Gotta love it.

Most of them love this stuff. Type T adrenaline junkies all (this does not refer to Class T amps).

[davidrs]

Yeah, my father taught me that buddy system and it works great.

 

Very cool sounding dad!

I got my training, from mine, in the desert. US Army Issue Jeeps out running the law.

[rollo]

 Ice damming is caused by  clogged gutters and or leaders.. A well designed roof will have a metal ice shield under the shingle extending back at least one foot from the roof edge. Simply cleaning the gutters will keep the water flowing when the snow on the roof gets melted from the heat of your home. Its just that simple.  Clean your gutters two to three times a year.  Especially after the fall.
   snow tires rule but back in the day we could use chains on the tirs. Nothing better but it messed up the pavement.


charles