Audio Rack

zybar · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 01:06 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 18 Jan 2011, 10:40 pm

Those racks at the website are too wide, they may actually interfere with speakers placement. These are my personal rules for audio rack.

1. I don't like audio components to be placed between the speakers, even they offer the shortest speaker cable length, because I don't like the look, and I want to be able to walk right up to the wall and look at whatever cool paintings that are hanged there.

2. I don't like a big TV between speakers, it's too distracting for one to enjoy the music. If I want good loud sound in a movie, I'd go watch it in a movie theatre.

3. I want my gear to be tugged away from the room, so it won't take away the look of the room. All room configurations are different, so it's hard to make it work sometime.

NO issue with your personal preferences, but I do find it interesting that two out of the three viewpoints offered have nothing to do with the sound of your system. Instead it is focused on the visual aspects of your system.

Do you find that the visuals impact the enjoyment of your system in a significant way?

Care to post of picture of what your setup looks like?

I need to take some new photos of my system since I now have some gear on a Sistrum SP-4 platform, but here is an older picture with gear in between (but behind) the speakers.

George

JLM · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 01:41 pm »

I've experienced a TV interfering with imaging in my HT system. I occasionally listen to music on the system (the L/R speakers are Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 - highly regarded $350/pair standmounts in their day) and was enjoying a xylophone that should have stretched between the speakers. As the performer moved from one end to the other the sound suddenly got confused and the image collapsed as the hammering moved from right to left and hit the edge of the TV, only to reform/clarify as the hammering reemerged on the left side of the TV. Note that the speaker baffles were located about 6 inches in front of the TV.

Most soundstaging is located behind the speakers (especially for tube based systems). So my six GIK 244 panels are at front corners, front wall first reflection points, and side wall first reflection points (to try to acoustically "move" those walls even farther away and help with the room's bass response). And that's why my "rack" (Ikea nightstand) in my main system is small (22"w x 15"d x 20"h) and sits close to the front wall versus the speakers that are over 5 feet from the same wall.

martyo · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 02:14 pm »

I also could use an updated pic because the speakers are further out into the room, so the front baffles are 2' in front of the TV. But if you notice, there is a folded maroon blanket on the right rack that I cover the TV with when I'm not watching/listening to a DVD.

bacobits1 · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 03:25 pm »

I'm using a glass shelf VTI (AGR Series 4 Shelf) rack, it is about 65 lbs unloaded with equipment and spiked to my wooden floor. The shelves are thick 1/4"+ tempered glass and sturdy. It is set back from my speakers but is set up in between my speakers which are about 4' into the room. I like glass because it is easy to clean no scratches etc. I think it is most important to consider what is directly under the equipment. I am using these cork ribbed rubber sandwiches "isol pods" that are sold by Maple Shade and a few other cheaper places. I started messing with these last week. Actually, I took them out and replaced some of them (Amp) with Hebie's Tender feet. The room is treated with MG Roomtunes that also work well here.

Well now. Everything just got more musical with an increased depth, of course especially on vinyl. So, ordered 8 more of the larger Herbie's "Tender Feet". Like an idiot I sold most of the smaller ones I had. They work well and always have in the past. They are being replaced. Steve's tweaks work.
I like what I'm hearing. Recommended!

D

rcag_ils · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 06:22 pm »

Quote

rcag_ils, you are incredible! You do not have any idea what the dimensions of the room are, and yet you come up with a conclusion that martyo is "wasting the potential of the Salk speakers".

Sometimes you can judge by the size of the speakers vs the room size, and the distance between speakers, floor rug, and make a logical estimate on how the system sound without being there. I know it sounds far fetched, but sometimes it works.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 06:39 pm »

Quote

NO issue with your personal preferences, but I do find it interesting that two out of the three viewpoints offered have nothing to do with the sound of your system. Instead it is focused on the visual aspects of your system.

Do you find that the visuals impact the enjoyment of your system in a significant way?

Care to post of picture of what your setup looks like?

I need to take some new photos of my system since I now have some gear on a Sistrum SP-4 platform, but here is an older picture with gear in between (but behind) the speakers.

We can not live on sound alone. Putting component between speakers does not guarantee better sound, just offer the shortest speaker cable run, that's all.

You can arrange your system anyway you want to get the best sound. But if your system ended up a pile here, a pile there, other words, very statically unpleasing, which would definitely affect your mood while you are sitting there.

I like the picture you showed with all the black acoustics panels. But the left speaker is so close to the stairs, you would have to walk around it every time you try to get to the stairs, I hope you have a lot of night light around the room so you can see where you are going in the dark.

Also, two acoustical panels are blocking the two windows in the rear. You would have to walk behind the two panels to open and close the shades.

For the two corner ceiling panels, I'd have chosen white or beige color instead of black, or something that matches the wall color.

I am not trying to be critical, and not promoting looks are more important than sound. I just like neatness and good sound.

(my old sound room can be seen in my gallery, but it's obsolete since I don't live there anymore.)

ebag4 · « **Reply #26 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 06:53 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 19 Jan 2011, 06:39 pm

We can not live on sound alone. Putting component between speakers does not guarantee better sound, just offer the shortest speaker cable run, that's all.

You can arrange your system anyway you want to get the best sound. But if your system ended up a pile here, a pile there, other words, very statically unpleasing, which would definitely affect your mood while you are sitting there.

I like the picture you showed with all the black acoustics panels. But the left speaker is so close to the stairs, you would have to walk around it every time you try to get to the stairs, I hope you have a lot of night light around the room so you can see where you are going in the dark.

Also, two acoustical panels are blocking the two windows in the rear. You would have to walk behind the two panels to open and close the shades.

For the two corner ceiling panels, I'd have chosen white or beige color instead of black, or something that matches the wall color.

I am not trying to be critical, and not promoting looks are more important than sound. I just like neatness and good sound.

(my old sound room can be seen in my gallery, but it's obsolete since I don't live there anymore.)

Sounds to me like you are describing a system that puts sound first, although I like the asthetic as well. WRT the center placement of the equipment, it has been my experience that placing equipment low as George has done has little to no negative impact on the soundstage.

Just my $.02.

Best,
Ed

bummrush · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 07:20 pm »

So when you have components all on a side of the room it doesnt bother you to have cable runs long on a side and run closer on the other side by the components,those pics of the Salk looks like a damn nice set up,why would this cause a hole somewhere?

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 07:44 pm »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 18 Jan 2011, 10:40 pm

Those racks at the website are too wide, they may actually interfere with speakers placement. These are my personal rules for audio rack.

1. I don't like audio components to be placed between the speakers, even they offer the shortest speaker cable length, because I don't like the look, and I want to be able to walk right up to the wall and look at whatever cool paintings that are hanged there.

2. I don't like a big TV between speakers, it's too distracting for one to enjoy the music. If I want good loud sound in a movie, I'd go watch it in a movie theatre.

3. I want my gear to be tugged away from the room, so it won't take away the look of the room. All room configurations are different, so it's hard to make it work sometime.

Too wide? I have a 60# Parasound Halo A21 amp and a 60# Adcom AVR that need a wide and deep rack. And my rack is in the corner of the room on the outside of a speaker.

rollo · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 08:30 pm »

Interesting topic. There a definite advantages of a well positined, isolated and thought out set up. However a more important factor of piece of mind goes a bit further.
The most affective means of setting up their system may not always look the best. For example weve found that hanging all cables with string has an good affect on sonics. Especially powercords off the floor. Separating components more than 4 ft. apart with proper isolation and resonance control of component. alsom made a difference for the good. For most impractical to live with. When we did the above there was an improvement but we could not get comfy looking at it. Although better sonics were had we were uneasy. That in itself can ruin any audio listening experience. Mood counts.
Which brings me to my point. Obviously we are all different. What makes one relax for listening will vary. If it dosn't look good to that person and makes them uneasy it will have an affect. Just cannot relax completely. For some a messy room or random placement of gear just does not matter. Chill and play. For some that is just impossible. lights right ? check. dusty CDP? check. Oops the right amp is not inline with the left amp. Oh my! check.

For me now in the cave its wires a hanging from string, no cables routed improperly, gear separated, isolated on resonance controlled plinths. That makes me relax knowing that I did what was right for my head. Turn the lights off and away I go.
Again there are benifits small but noticeable. Does it mattter which way you go ? NO. it's your road your drive enjoy the ride.

charles

Wayner · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 09:55 pm »

Mark Korda wanted me to post his equipment rack. Old timbers and for him, more then adequate.

Wayner

Wayner · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 09:58 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 19 Jan 2011, 08:30 pm

Interesting topic. There a definite advantages of a well positined, isolated and thought out set up. However a more important factor of piece of mind goes a bit further.
The most affective means of setting up their system may not always look the best. For example weve found that hanging all cables with string has an good affect on sonics. Especially powercords off the floor. Separating components more than 4 ft. apart with proper isolation and resonance control of component. alsom made a difference for the good. For most impractical to live with. When we did the above there was an improvement but we could not get comfy looking at it. Although better sonics were had we were uneasy. That in itself can ruin any audio listening experience. Mood counts.
Which brings me to my point. Obviously we are all different. What makes one relax for listening will vary. If it dosn't look good to that person and makes them uneasy it will have an affect. Just cannot relax completely. For some a messy room or random placement of gear just does not matter. Chill and play. For some that is just impossible. lights right ? check. dusty CDP? check. Oops the right amp is not inline with the left amp. Oh my! check.

For me now in the cave its wires a hanging from string, no cables routed improperly, gear separated, isolated on resonance controlled plinths. That makes me relax knowing that I did what was right for my head. Turn the lights off and away I go.
Again there are benifits small but noticeable. Does it mattter which way you go ? NO. it's your road your drive enjoy the ride.

charles

I'm sure Frank isn't going to be happy with this kind of nonsense, Rollo. No offense, but hanging cables and cords with ropes is over the deep end. If you think you can hear the difference, goody. I'm not entertaining anything of this nature.

Wayner

avahifi · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 10:22 pm »

I certainly don't mind suggestions about hanging your equipment and wires from strings, but it should be done with good sounding strings.

I urge you all to read up thoroughly about String Theory before attempting this. When you have as good an understanding about this as I and Steve do, then leap right into it.

Sincerely,

Frank Van Alstine

JLM · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 10:36 pm »

At a fellow audiophile's suggestions I tried the cork/neoprene and soft rubber feet under components. And I also tried keeping all the cables off the carpet. Call me tin ears, but I didn't hear a bit of difference with any of it.

I'm old school too (not quite as old as Frank) so I was disappointed to find signal and even power cables make a difference. OTOH which $1000 pair of speaker cable sounds best and why would it matter (they're both beyond my price range and in any case I'd rather put the money into better speakers to start with).

rcag_ils · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 11:22 pm »

The comment I made about the racks in those websites are being wide, in a sense that they separate the speakers too far apart, not being too wide to hold any big amp.

Also, when my rack was put way away from the speakers up against the wall, the speaker cable length I used was about 20' and I use 14 awg, so they worked just fine. The speaker cable were run close to the side wall, so they were way out of the way and no tripping hazard there.

That left two speakers neatly standing in front of my listening position, instead of amp, preamp, tuner, dac, cd player, turntable and speaker all cluttered together in one big mess. No change in sound.

PS, this arrangement also good for the turntable, being not too close to the speakers, who needs all that vibration next to the turntable.

Wayner · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 11:25 pm »

That all depends on the room size. Lots of speakers benefit from being further apart (until a hole in the sound stage appears. I don't think a general statement like that covers all the bases.

Wayner

martyo · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 12:27 am »

Since Franks post I've been reading about String Theory. Once I found some links that put it in very laymans terms I could understood it was very interesting. My brothers wife works at Fermi Lab. I don't know how much contact she has with the physicists but I'm going to ask her to ask them what they think.

Back to the regularly scheduled show.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 03:59 am »

Quote

That all depends on the room size. Lots of speakers benefit from being further apart (until a hole in the sound stage appears. I don't think a general statement like that covers all the bases.

My comments are not based on any scientific data, just from general observation based on many, many audio system pictures that I've seen online or in magazines. Many people even put their turntables only a foot or two from the floor, good for collecting dust or accidentally drop a wine glass on. Big refrigerator size speakers only five to six feet apart, monitor size speakers ten feet apart, all claim they sound wonderful.

Wayner · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 01:01 pm »

I agree with you wanting to put the components, especially the turntable as far away from the speakers as possible. I don't buy into the theory that components between the speakers, when they don't even brake the line-up of the front plane, cause "a hole" in the soundstage. Almost all of the sound from a boxed enclosure is very low frequency, and that is omni-directional. If you have some electrostatics, that may be a different story, because of the rear radiation pattern.

Wayner

TjMV3 · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 04:31 pm »

Quote from: I.Greyhound Fan on 18 Jan 2011, 07:07 pm

Here's the main manufacturer link for the VTI racks that I meant to post-

http://www.vtimanufacturing.com/Audio%20racks%20&%20AV%20stands.htm

There are quite a few more racks on this site. You can get these racks with wheels it you like to be able to move them around for cleaning.

They also sell reasonably priced speaker stands and TV stands.

I tried a VTI rack (the BP Series) and it sucked.

Nothing but trouble. Bent legs that wouldn't match up to the dimples wher ethe spikes are supposed to set in, brass caps that were all crooked and poorly capped onto the leg posts. Took several weeks to get a replacement and the replacement was equally screwed up. Finally I asked for a refund and that wanted to return it. The whole process wasted two months of my time and left me with no rack.

That's just my own personal experience with those racks.