Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions

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dlherman

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Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« on: 16 Jan 2011, 07:58 pm »
Hello all. My name is Doug, I'm from Surrey, BC, Canada,  and I recently took delivery of the Vision Hybrid DAC. It's not often that I post comments on audio equipment, but in this instance I think that doing so is justified.

I've owned AVA gear for quite a number of years because of its outstanding performance and value, and the new DAC is no exception.

My system includes an AVA T8 preamplifier with phono, an AVA Ultra 550 power amplifier, Monster HTS 5100 MKII Powercentre, Virtue Audio interconnects and speaker cables, modified Newform Research R645 loudspeakers and a pair of Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofers crossed over at about 30Hz. The digital source is a PC using a low EMI/RFI power supply and EMU 1212M sound card for playback and recording vinyl. The software player is Foobar2000 with the kernel streaming plugin. My analog source is a Linn LP12 turntable with an Akito tonearm and Audio Technica AT150MLX MM phono cartridge.

I don't want to go into a lengthy and flowery description, but within moments of turn on I could tell that the Vision Hybrid DAC is very different from the AVA Ultra DAC that it replaces. After an hour of system warm up it was clear that it is extraordinary and far superior in every respect to Ultra DAC.

Improvements in the bass made the immediate first impression. Despite experimenting with speaker placement and using bass traps the system continued to suffer from ill-defined and relatively sloppy and boomy bass. With the new DAC most of these problems are greatly diminished or eliminated. The low bass is now highly defined and has greater transparency, extension and articulation. There is much more apparent energy in the lower octaves. In fact, the new DAC solves many problems that I thought were associated with room acoustics and/or loudspeaker placement/deficiencies.

The sound stage is much larger, and more open and three dimensional. In fact it is enormous. Dynamic range seems increased. Horns have much more bite, much closer to the real thing, and brush cymbals have a very nice sizzle and just float.

The DAC has tremendous resolving power. Instruments are much more clearly delineated and placed. When playing Danny Boy from the Five Songbirds CD, Jacinth's breath is clearly resolved and her voice hangs palpably between the speakers, with proper decay and acoustic character. In fact I can hear what sounds like the walls resonating in response to her voice - one of many qualities that are missing with the old DAC. There is so much more that I can hear now, and so much more that just gets out of the way, and it's just wonderful.

Is it a vinyl killer? Perhaps, in that it is simply transparent and in my opinion adds little character to the signal. I've come to believe that most if not all of the alleged deficiencies in digital can be traced back to the production process. The DAC can't correct a poorly produced piece of music, but a well recorded 44.1/16 CD sounds superb. The importance of production was driven home by a Pink Floyd 96/24 stereo SACD which was an underwhelming experience. There was little if anything I noticed that made it stand out, and at first it made me question the value of higher resolution recordings, that is until I compared samples of digitized vinyl recorded at 44.1/16 and 96/24. All else being the same the higher sample rate/bit depth recordings are clearly superior, and in many ways the DAC improved on the vinyl experience because I no longer have to worry about feedback and other acoustic interactions with the turntable system when listening to the digitized versions.

I think Frank Van Alstine's description of the new DAC are on the mark. It is thrilling to listen to. How it stacks up against the competition is for others to determine, but to my ears given a good recording it just disappears and leaves the music. I'm very happy with it. Great job, Frank!

srb

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #1 on: 16 Jan 2011, 08:28 pm »
I am not aware of a Vision "Hybrid" DAC.  The only two I know about are the Vision DAC and the Vision EC DAC (with multiple inputs), both solid state with no tubes.  Is there a new hybrid version of the Vision that is not yet listed on the AVA website?
 
Steve

jmc207

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #2 on: 16 Jan 2011, 09:06 pm »
Yes, there is one. Frank announced it in an unrelated thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86416.msg843446#msg843446

"P.S.  The first production of our newest creation, the Vision Hybrid DAC, is up and running this morning.  Sorry vinyl guys, you are now finally obsolete. $1999 complete with four switchable digital inputs, two optical, two coax.  Uses two 6CG7 tubes, Wolfson 8742 DAC chip, our patented transimpedance amplifier filter/amplifier, and major new design innovations including use of Exicon power mos-fets in the analog filters, and eleven regulated power supplies. Hearing is the proof.  We will have it in room 2000 at the RMAF, listen to it there."

Tone Depth

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #3 on: 17 Jan 2011, 02:49 am »
Thanks for your great review, and am looking forward to hearing more about the Vision Hybrid DAC!  Rereading your review several times, it appears you've also noticed improved reproduction on standard redbook (44.1k/16 bit) cd material, as compared with your Ultra DAC?  And to clarify, you hadn't upgraded the Ultra to Ultra+?

22 Jan 2011 Edited second sentence above

Hello all. My name is Doug, I'm from Surrey, BC, Canada,  and I recently took delivery of the Vision Hybrid DAC. It's not often that I post comments on audio equipment, but in this instance I think that doing so is justified.

I've owned AVA gear for quite a number of years because of its outstanding performance and value, and the new DAC is no exception.

My system includes an AVA T8 preamplifier with phono, an AVA Ultra 550 power amplifier, Monster HTS 5100 MKII Powercentre, Virtue Audio interconnects and speaker cables, modified Newform Research R645 loudspeakers and a pair of Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofers crossed over at about 30Hz. The digital source is a PC using a low EMI/RFI power supply and EMU 1212M sound card for playback and recording vinyl. The software player is Foobar2000 with the kernel streaming plugin. My analog source is a Linn LP12 turntable with an Akito tonearm and Audio Technica AT150MLX MM phono cartridge.

I don't want to go into a lengthy and flowery description, but within moments of turn on I could tell that the Vision Hybrid DAC is very different from the AVA Ultra DAC that it replaces. After an hour of system warm up it was clear that it is extraordinary and far superior in every respect to Ultra DAC.

Improvements in the bass made the immediate first impression. Despite experimenting with speaker placement and using bass traps the system continued to suffer from ill-defined and relatively sloppy and boomy bass. With the new DAC most of these problems are greatly diminished or eliminated. The low bass is now highly defined and has greater transparency, extension and articulation. There is much more apparent energy in the lower octaves. In fact, the new DAC solves many problems that I thought were associated with room acoustics and/or loudspeaker placement/deficiencies.

The sound stage is much larger, and more open and three dimensional. In fact it is enormous. Dynamic range seems increased. Horns have much more bite, much closer to the real thing, and brush cymbals have a very nice sizzle and just float.

The DAC has tremendous resolving power. Instruments are much more clearly delineated and placed. When playing Danny Boy from the Five Songbirds CD, Jacinth's breath is clearly resolved and her voice hangs palpably between the speakers, with proper decay and acoustic character. In fact I can hear what sounds like the walls resonating in response to her voice - one of many qualities that are missing with the old DAC. There is so much more that I can hear now, and so much more that just gets out of the way, and it's just wonderful.

Is it a vinyl killer? Perhaps, in that it is simply transparent and in my opinion adds little character to the signal. I've come to believe that most if not all of the alleged deficiencies in digital can be traced back to the production process. The DAC can't correct a poorly produced piece of music, but a well recorded 44.1/16 CD sounds superb. The importance of production was driven home by a Pink Floyd 96/24 stereo SACD which was an underwhelming experience. There was little if anything I noticed that made it stand out, and at first it made me question the value of higher resolution recordings, that is until I compared samples of digitized vinyl recorded at 44.1/16 and 96/24. All else being the same the higher sample rate/bit depth recordings are clearly superior, and in many ways the DAC improved on the vinyl experience because I no longer have to worry about feedback and other acoustic interactions with the turntable system when listening to the digitized versions.

I think Frank Van Alstine's description of the new DAC are on the mark. It is thrilling to listen to. How it stacks up against the competition is for others to determine, but to my ears given a good recording it just disappears and leaves the music. I'm very happy with it. Great job, Frank!
« Last Edit: 22 Jan 2011, 10:11 pm by Tone Depth »

martyo

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #4 on: 17 Jan 2011, 10:19 am »
Very nice set. :thumb:
Thanks, this is the review I'm been waiting for. Our front ends are almost identical, T8+ and Double 550+ and the Ultra DAC. (BTW, that "+" upgrade on the 550 is well worth it.) A new DAC isn't in the budget, but the $300 upgrade to the Ultra is. No hi-rez yet for me, but much improved redbook for less than the price of the remote for the T8 I was leaning towards.

Quote
Is it a vinyl killer? Perhaps, in that it is simply transparent and in my opinion adds little character to the signal. I've come to believe that most if not all of the alleged deficiencies in digital can be traced back to the production process. The DAC can't correct a poorly produced piece of music, but a well recorded 44.1/16 CD sounds superb. The importance of production was driven home by a Pink Floyd 96/24 stereo SACD which was an underwhelming experience. There was little if anything I noticed that made it stand out, and at first it made me question the value of higher resolution recordings, that is until I compared samples of digitized vinyl recorded at 44.1/16 and 96/24. All else being the same the higher sample rate/bit depth recordings are clearly superior, and in many ways the DAC improved on the vinyl experience because I no longer have to worry about feedback and other acoustic interactions with the turntable system when listening to the digitized versions.


Very interesting. So same original source digitized from the vinyl to standard redbook and 96/24, the hi-rez is clearly superior. Thank you very much. 8)



rcag_ils

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #5 on: 17 Jan 2011, 05:24 pm »
I am not aware of there's a "+" upgrade for the 550, I only know of the double die upgrade, what is the + upgrade?

AVnerdguy

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #6 on: 17 Jan 2011, 05:26 pm »
The + is the double die option. I have the 550+. I had it built new so I never had the chance to compare it to the standard version. I know that it handles my Maggie 1.7s with ease.

martyo

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #7 on: 17 Jan 2011, 06:20 pm »
The "+" and double die option are different.
 Here is a link to a thread discussing it: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80410.0

rcag_ils even made a few posts in the thread.  :?  I guess your memory is about as good as mine. :lol:

Tone Depth

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #8 on: 17 Jan 2011, 06:49 pm »
Also, check the AVA website:  http://avahifi.com/  On the right side of the main page under AVA Updates are links to descriptions of the + upgrades and more.

I am not aware of there's a "+" upgrade for the 550, I only know of the double die upgrade, what is the + upgrade?

ArthurDent

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #9 on: 17 Jan 2011, 07:37 pm »
Thanks for the writeup Doug. Always good to get impressions on new equipment, particularly Frank's.   :thumb:

rez

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #10 on: 19 Jan 2011, 05:44 am »
Uh oh... sounds like my vision dac/preamp is obsolete before it's even built  :cry:

Wayner

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #11 on: 19 Jan 2011, 12:53 pm »
No it's not. All current builds are the latest, greatest.

Wayner

pardales

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #12 on: 19 Jan 2011, 02:38 pm »
Yes, there is one. Frank announced it in an unrelated thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86416.msg843446#msg843446

"P.S.  The first production of our newest creation, the Vision Hybrid DAC, is up and running this morning.  Sorry vinyl guys, you are now finally obsolete. $1999 complete with four switchable digital inputs, two optical, two coax.  Uses two 6CG7 tubes, Wolfson 8742 DAC chip, our patented transimpedance amplifier filter/amplifier, and major new design innovations including use of Exicon power mos-fets in the analog filters, and eleven regulated power supplies. Hearing is the proof.  We will have it in room 2000 at the RMAF, listen to it there."

So, is the Vision Hybrid DAC a tube "pre" with the Vision DAC inside it?

martyo

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #13 on: 19 Jan 2011, 03:00 pm »
Quote
So, is the Vision Hybrid DAC a tube "pre" with the Vision DAC inside it?

No. Only a Hybrid DAC, as the Ultra DAC is.

strat95

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #14 on: 26 Jan 2011, 04:56 am »
Is there any more information available on this Hybrid Vision DAC???  Can't find any.

And Frank's post/comment declaring vinyl guys are now finally obsolete was made in October 2010.

If anyone has any info, specs, price, etc... please provide it for us.

Frank???

Thanks

TV

Tone Depth

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - info
« Reply #15 on: 26 Jan 2011, 05:26 am »
The cost is in the initial announcement:  $1999, as is a description of the major components.  Basically the same exterior as the Vision EC DAC, 2 RCA coax and 2 optical inputs selectable by front panel mounted switch, stereo analog out.  You can reread the rest.  From the Vision DACs, fast slew rate, low distortion as described in the Vision DAC announcement sticky.  Possibly similar transimpedance circuitry as is used in the AvaStar preamp?  Best to call Frank with your questions.

modular747

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - info
« Reply #16 on: 26 Jan 2011, 06:30 am »
Possibly similar transimpedance circuitry as is used in the AvaStar preamp? 

The Vision Hybrid DAC has a transimpedance amp/filter section with power MOS-FETs, similar to the Ultra+ preamp topology, not the AvaStar.

strat95

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #17 on: 28 Jan 2011, 02:03 am »
Thank you for the responses.  I was surprised to hear of a Hybrid DAC still being sold because the Vision DAC surpassed the previous Ultra DAC and thus was discontinued.

I will have to give Frank a call for more info.

Ted

charmerci

Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #18 on: 28 Jan 2011, 04:10 am »
Thank you for the responses.  I was surprised to hear of a Hybrid DAC still being sold because the Vision DAC surpassed the previous Ultra DAC and thus was discontinued.

Ted

He sells the Vision DAC in two variations. The regular Vision - all solid state - and the Vision Hybrid.

Tone Depth

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Re: Vision Hybrid DAC - impressions
« Reply #19 on: 28 Jan 2011, 04:53 am »
strat95, you might want to try rereading the posts in the thread a little more carefully.  This thread is about the brand new Vision Hybrid DAC (which isn't the Ultra (hybrid) DAC, or the completely solid state Vision DACs).