Vapor Cirrus Loudspeakers - Flying Above the Clouds

Downsize · « **Reply #20 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 12:25 am »

Quote from: jtwrace on 28 Dec 2010, 12:17 am

Of course. Just ask for a thread cleanup.

I don't mind what is already on the thread. I just want to steer it back to the topic of the Cirrus speakers now.

Dracule1 · « **Reply #21 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 03:02 am »

My apologies for side stepping this thread. But the vapor speakers seem to be high resolution enough to warrant high end boutique caps. One thing Dueland caps that does so well where other caps seem to faultar is in naturalness of the sound. No Teflon zing and silver/gold hyperdetail. The drivers in these speakers are SOTA and I do think they can benefit significantly from Duelands, not 1% increase improvement over the Vcaps.

I do have a specific question regarding vapor speakers. Are the drivers time aligned? If it is, it must be done electronically as the baffle is not sloped. Also what order crossover slopes are employed? I know that Raal recommends a very steep 4th order crossover for their ribbon tweeters. I personally am not a big fan of steep crossover in passive application.

Downsize · « **Reply #22 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 03:12 am »

Quote from: Dracule1 on 28 Dec 2010, 03:02 am

My apologies for side stepping this thread. But the vapor speakers seem to be high resolution enough to warrant high end boutique caps. One thing Dueland caps that does so well where other caps seem to faultar is in naturalness of the sound. No Teflon zing and silver/gold hyperdetail. The drivers in these speakers are SOTA and I do think they can benefit significantly from Duelands, not 1% increase improvement over the Vcaps.

I do have a specific question regarding vapor speakers. Are the drivers time aligned? If it is, it must be done electronically as the baffle is not sloped. Also what order crossover slopes are employed? I know that Raal recommends a very steep 4th order crossover for their ribbon tweeters. I personally am not a big fan of steep crossover in passive application.

I would contact Ryan ay www.vaporsound.com to get the answers you are seeking. And FWIW, I have used tons of silver/gold and have never heard it to be hyper detailed. It sounds more natural to my ears than any other metal used in audio reproduction.

Dracule1 · « **Reply #23 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 05:41 am »

Thanks for the link. Crossover network is 2nd order parallel for both tweeter and woofer. That's good IMHO. He didn't resort to 4th order tweeter crossover presumably by crossing over at slightly highish 2250 Hz. Seems like a very well thought out design with top quality components.

I wonder if he is willing to fiddle around with field coil drivers, such as AC-X field coil driver by http://www.voxativ.com.
It's expensive but not as mind blowing expensive as the Feastrix drivers. I've never liked a full range single driver speaker because no single full range driver can do the highs and lows as a good dedicated tweeter or woofer can, but I can see AC-X driver running almost full range with first order crossover in the lows and operated as dipole, but augmented in the very highs (>10 KHz) with a rear firing Raal tweeter on 1st order network and in the lows (<50 Hz) by servo controlled dipole subwoofers. Some would say that defeats the purpose of a single full range driver, but I think you can get the coherency and speed of a single driver without the draw backs. I'm no speaker designer, so I proposed speaker may be redunculous to a seasoned speaker builder. We can always dream right?

Agisthos · « **Reply #24 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 05:43 am »

Ribbons do have a reputation for being fast and not sounding integrated with the rest of the frequency range. I think Ryan has gotten around this by using the Audio Technology drivers that are custom speced for speed of cone excursion or something. Downsize could probably comment on this.... is the crossove point seamless or audible at all?

Take the RAAL tour.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/roadtourserbia/raal_4.html

Hand build, matched pair ribbons from Serbia.....

JohnR · « **Reply #25 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 07:10 am »

Quote from: Downsize on 27 Dec 2010, 11:58 pm

As the originator of this thread, may I respectfully request that we keep this thread about Ryan's speakers, and start new threads about any other manufacturer's offerings ?

Thanks

Yes. So back to the review - perhaps you could provide some information on previous speakers that you've owned and the electronics you are using, so that people have some kind of frame of reference?

Downsize · « **Reply #26 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 02:48 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 28 Dec 2010, 07:10 am

Yes. So back to the review - perhaps you could provide some information on previous speakers that you've owned and the electronics you are using, so that people have some kind of frame of reference?

Thank you ... The most significant speakers I have owned previsously are Alon Vs, Energy Veritas v2.8, Coincident Technologies, PSB Stratus Gold i, Ariel 10t, B&W 801 Matrix 3s, B&W Nautilus 802s, Vandersteen 5i, and more over the past 26 yrs.

For the review, the system was my laptop playing Flac files through an Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC into a McCormack DNA-500 and Downsize 97/3 % UPOCC silver and pure gold alloy Audio Cables throughout.

Downsize · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 Dec 2010, 02:50 pm »

Quote from: Agisthos on 28 Dec 2010, 05:43 am

Ribbons do have a reputation for being fast and not sounding integrated with the rest of the frequency range. I think Ryan has gotten around this by using the Audio Technology drivers that are custom speced for speed of cone excursion or something. Downsize could probably comment on this.... is the crossove point seamless or audible at all?

Take the RAAL tour.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/roadtourserbia/raal_4.html

Hand build, matched pair ribbons from Serbia.....

LOL ... There's not even a chance of hearing the crossover point. The presentation is so seamless, it sounds like a point source driver .... but one that is the size of a truck

Downsize · « **Reply #28 on:** 1 Jan 2011, 09:10 pm »

Ya know .... I have found what may be a negative with the Cirrus speakers .... They are SOOOOO very transparent and revealing, they show the difference in literally EVERYTHING upstream from them ... Different tweaks, cables, terminations, etc ...

NOTHING sounds the same at all. This is great for converting non-believers in cable differences, and for allowing you to fine tune the living hell out of your system.

The negative ? They will tell on any upstream equipment that may be holding your system back

Rocket · « **Reply #29 on:** 2 Jan 2011, 12:59 am »

Hi,

What do the speakers sound like when listening to audiophile and lesser recordings? Apparently the design concept called for more average hifi recordings to also sound good.

I find so many albums that I like sound pretty poor on my system.

Regards

Rod

ps how much did the custom stands cost?

Downsize · « **Reply #30 on:** 2 Jan 2011, 02:01 am »

Quote from: Rocket on 2 Jan 2011, 12:59 am

Hi,

What do the speakers sound like when listening to audiophile and lesser recordings? Apparently the design concept called for more average hifi recordings to also sound good.

I find so many albums that I like sound pretty poor on my system.

Regards

Rod

ps how much did the custom stands cost?

Not sure I quite get what you are asking ... Aren't all recordings either audiophile qualty or lesser recordings ? Regardless, these sound simply AMAZING ! They will not make a poor recording sound good, but no speakers on earth do that.
All of the pricing for options is on the Vaporsound website.
Cheers !

satfrat · « **Reply #31 on:** 2 Jan 2011, 03:41 am »

Quote from: Downsize on 2 Jan 2011, 02:01 am

Not sure I quite get what you are asking ... Aren't all recordings either audiophile qualty or lesser recordings ? Regardless, these sound simply AMAZING ! They will not make a poor recording sound good, but no speakers on earth do that.
All of the pricing for options is on the Vaporsound website.
Cheers !

I think Rocket's asking you how big of a difference there is between the really good recordings and the not so good one's and to explain what you're hearing. Rocket's questioning might have come from this comment of Ryan's that seem to infer that these speakers were more forgiving than most on bad recordings. So his questions seem to be understandable enough considering we all have them "bad apples" in our libraries. Here was his comment:

Quote

Yea, a lot of people here know my musical taste and it's certainly not your typical audiophile fare. A speaker that renders 3/4 of my library unlistenably forward is worthless to me, as I think is the case for many others. All I can say is it took a long time to reach the perfect balance, a lot of speaker 'voicers' it seems never challenge their designs with less-than-perfect recordings.

Cheers,
Robin

Rocket · « **Reply #32 on:** 2 Jan 2011, 09:09 am »

Hi Robin,

It isn't good to post on a forum on New Years day and make myself understood. The above copy of Ryan's post was what I was referring to regarding sound quality.

Btw 3/4 of my music library is almost unlistenable unless I listen to it thru my mp3 player.

Regards

Rod

Downsize · « **Reply #33 on:** 2 Jan 2011, 04:57 pm »

The Cirrus speakers are not bright or edgy in any way. I have never once had them make me wince or cringe, nor have I ever became fatigued while listening to them.

At the same time, they are the most extended, the most detailed, and the most resolving speakers I have yet heard. This is a VERY hard balancing act to achieve, and Ryan has done so perfectly.

The issue you are speaking of however, can also be VERY much due to your front end. If your front end plays with an edgy and agressive sound, the Cirrus are not going to correct that.

Afterimage · « **Reply #34 on:** 8 Jan 2011, 12:54 pm »

Congrats on your speaker find Downsize. Just reading through this, I don't think the issue of how it handles poor or middle of the road recordings has been addressed fully. Yes the source has an impact but I don't think we are referring to edgy or bright here but rather if the recordings sound dull or lifeless through the speakers. I have heard really top end sources with revealing speakers and the poorer recordings still sound like crap. They sound better on freaking boom box. So I guess what were looking for is do these speakers breath some air, life, and weight/depth into thin dull recordings? I think most of us get frustrated that some of our music does not sound so good on systems we have invested a lot of money in. Sure those type of recordings are never going to sound great, but there is some speakers out there hid the sins better and make music out of it anyway. Green Mountain, Mark & Daniel, WLM, Amphion are some I have heard that do pretty good with lessor quality recordings. So, how about the Vapor Cirrus?

Rocket · « **Reply #35 on:** 8 Jan 2011, 01:31 pm »

Hi,

Quote

Yea, a lot of people here know my musical taste and it's certainly not your typical audiophile fare. A speaker that renders 3/4 of my library unlistenably forward is worthless to me, as I think is the case for many others. All I can say is it took a long time to reach the perfect balance, a lot of speaker 'voicers' it seems never challenge their designs with less-than-perfect recordings.

This quote and the previous quote is exatly what I am referring to. I like the sound of my current speakers but most cd's do sound a bit dull and lifeless or compressed.

Regards

Rod

Afterimage · « **Reply #36 on:** 8 Jan 2011, 04:40 pm »

So Rocket, is sounds like you may like a lot of pop/rock. That is certainly the case with me and I think there is a lot more audiophiles than we think out there that enjoy these genres as well. So, it may be more of a challenge to put together a highend system with this in mind.

Rocket · « **Reply #37 on:** 9 Jan 2011, 12:49 am »

Hi,

I already have an audiophile system but most of the recordings that I like sound fairly poor. I mainly listen to music that is acceptable but sounds very good. It kind of doesn't make any sense

.

Regards

Rod

Downsize · « **Reply #38 on:** 10 Jan 2011, 05:16 pm »

You guys are asking me a question which is impossible for me to answer correctly. Every system is different, and EVERY piece of your system works together to give you certain characteristics in the overall sound. My answer will not be appropriate for each person.

If you are looking for warm and mellow speakers to gloss over harsh digital recordings ... look elsewhere.

If you are lookinmg for hyper analytical speakers, like good studio monitors, which always sound dry and non musical ... look elsewhere.

I stated in my original review, the Cirrus speakers are the best I have ever heard at splitting the difference between musical and analytical. They are equally warm, detailed, and resolving to perfection. They will not hide nor highlight a bad recording.
The best thing I can tell you is this : My music collection is over 57,000 songs ripped all to Flac or WAV .... and I have not heard even one song that didn't sound awesome on my system.

But let me give you some good advice : Stop worrying the details, and BUY a damned pair fast, fast, fast !!!!!!!!!!! These are speakers which easily better most others under $75,000 for under $4000 ...... Do not wait until they are a household name, with a price tag to match !

brj · « **Reply #39 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 02:14 am »

I can certainly appreciate the enthusiasm of a new owner, but this is a review thread, and specific recommendations of purchase are best suited to other circles.

Downsize, a suggestion.... users might better relate to your review if you describe the rest of your system, your room, your musical and system preferences, what specific music you use to test a system, what previous products you've owned and why you moved on, etc.. In short, those types of details discussed in the Critic's Circle Guidelines. No one component can be everything to everyone in every system, so the better readers understand your system and goals, the better they can relate your comments to their own system and goals.

Also, I recommend against broad generalizations. The more specific authors are in their discussion, the better.

Thanks!