[neobop]

For those who have a Clearaudio MM cart, you can buy a replacement stylus that's a perfect fit. AT is the OEM for Clearaudio MMs. The AT-95 has the identical plug (rectangular part that holds the cantilever and fits into the body) that fits the Clearaudios. The only thing is, you have to trim off the plastic wings from the stylus holder. A Jico made shibata give very nice results. It is available from LpGear for $130, or from TurntableNeedles for $79 (on sale).

neo

[AudioSoul]

  I thought the Clearaudio MM styluses were not replaceable. Can you show a picture of what you have and how you mounted a Audio Technica stylus to it? That would be very helpful. Thanks......

[neobop]

OK, I'll try to post some pics. I notice there's a little button up top that says insert images. Do I have to use a server or can I insert from my computer?
I'm kind of retarded when it comes to this stuff.

In the mean time, if you have a Clearaudio MM you can see that the cantilever is attached to a little rectangular piece of plastic that is flat on the bottom of the body. If you carefully pry up the plastic, with a small screwdriver under the lip of the plastic, you can remove the stylus/cantilever. You'll see that the assembly is the same as any AT MM, with magnets attached. However, AT used different plugs (that piece of plastic) for different carts. A modern plug for a 440/120 series stylus won't fit. I think Clearaudio ordered this style body/plug for just that reason.

The Clearaudio plug is identical to an AT-95 plug. [remember the rest of the plastic has to be removed] There are no really high end styli available with this plug. The Jico bonded shibata is quite good however. If you wanted say, a boron cantilever and a micro line stylus, you could transplant a 150MLX stylus into a 95E plug. There is a little screw on top of the plug to accomplish this. It is hairy though.

This all started for me when a guy called Glrickaby posted some of this on Agon. I was curious about Clearaudio MMs, and this is a way to try one inexpensively. I bought a Virtuoso with a busted cantilever. With a Jico AT-95 shibata, it sounds really nice. Because the compliance is dictated by the stylus, it works great in heavier arms. The AT-95 has the stiffest suspension offered by AT. Cu is 6.5 @100Hz. BTW, the AT-95 has a nice balanced sound. No need to load at 32K like my 440.

It also seems that all the Clearaudio MMs are identical electrically. The only difference seems to be in the stylus/cantilever and the wood top in the Maestro. There could be a difference internally, like nylon vs teflon, but I doubt it. The electrical specs - resistance, inductance are the same.
neo

[neobop]

The first pic is a Virtuoso on top and the stylus assembly from a 150MLX. The plug near the 150 stylus is from a 440. As I found out, the plug doesn't fit. Even trimmed down to fit, the cantilever is at the wrong angle. That's why it must be transplanted into a 95 plug. To complicate matters further, the Clearaudio plug has no screw, just a fitting. I've been meaning to see if I can get that out in one piece. I think Soundsmith does it, but I'm no soundsmith.

Pic #2 is my AT collection illustrating the different plugs - styles.
Top is a 15SS with stylus right behind it. It has a round plug with severe angle.
Next is a 440ML OCC. Notice the front is angled, as opposed to the Virtuoso just below. The styli are interchangeable on a 440/120/150. Matter of fact, the bodies of the 120 and 440MLa are the same.
The bottom cart is my AT95 modded. It's potted internally and has an aluminum top plate epoxied on the top. Sounds good with the Jico shibata.

neo

[Ericus Rex]

Thanks for the info Neo!

[Mitsuman]

Yes, very cool info Neo 

[glrickaby]

Actually, any ATN95E/3400 stylus will fit any Clearaudio body at least through the virtuoso.
You actually do not have to trim it as it will snap right on, but look a little funny because
there is a slight gap in front- doesn't hurt anything. Units will work on the old LINN K9 etc.,
in the same way, with a slight gap showing. Neo and others believe there is better sound
with trimming the wings right at the plug base. I've got a Virtuoso listed now for sale on
Agon but you can see from the picture when I trimmed the wings off the plug, one side
is not straight and they can look a little ragged if not careful. Also, the AT92E/3003 stylus
will work with a little trimming but the compliance is different as this is a Pmount. Styli
can also be transplanted back and forth as Neo shows, provided the plug has the little
white spot, which scraped away, reveals a screw. Some generics do not have the screw
and the Clearaudio plug itself, has a insert rather than a screw so is not usable unless
there is some way to remove the insert. I've retipped several Clearaudios in this fashion
with good success.  The AT95E was a recommended class D component in the list by
Stereophile some years ago.  For a $50 type cartridge, it seems to perform way above
it's class and with a stylus improvement to an HE or Shibata (ATN95HE,S or ATN3400S)
from LPGear or Stereo Needles, is quite a performer. When these styli are inserted in a
Clearaudio body, there is at least an illusion of increased performance, when one considers
what Clearaudio charges for its wood bodied units.

[AudioSoul]

  Neobop, You are very brave. I would not do that with a $800.00 cart. But it all seems to work. Thanks for the posting and the pics........

[neobop]

  Neobop, You are very brave. I would not do that with a $800.00 cart. But it all seems to work. Thanks for the posting and the pics........

I thought I mentioned, I bought a Virtuoso with a busted cantilever. Not so brave. 
What I did forget was the P mount styli. I had a 92E sitting around just in case I ever fixed a broken Technics TT that is a P mount. Actually, I'm using the Technics for record cleaning so I'll probably never use the cart. Anyway the 95E stylus (plug) fit right in the 92. I never played it though. I understand the 92 plug is a little loose in the 95 body. I hold them in with some tack anyway. What this means is that any P mount AT with that unique shaped stylus holder, will fit. I guess you really would need to trim off the plastic on those.

Here's my modded AT-95SA. I made the top piece out of an old headshell.












neo

[neobop]

A couple of recent developments I think are worth mentioning. I was looking at the plug that comes with the Clearaudio. With 10x I can see that the lip of the cone shaped insert that replaces the compliance screw, is actually U shaped - has an opening on one end. This is so small I have no tool to mess with it. To see if it will unscrew I'd have to grind down a tiny cart screwdriver. To give you an idea of size, a compliance screw (the little screw in the plug that holds the cantilever) has a 1mm (I think) thread. Most cart screwdrivers won't fit. This insert fits inside the recepticle for the 1mm screw.
I have an extra plug that Glrickaby gave me, so I decided it wasn't worth messing with the Clearaudio plug. I just haven't decided what stylus I'm going to use.

If you have a Clearaudio MM and want to replace the stylus yourself, I'd recommend getting an AT-95 shibata replacement or buying a cheap 95 or 3400 stylus for the plug and transplanting an AT stylus. This is a bit hairy but I'm sure many could do it. What this entails is cutting away the plastic on the 95 plug and removing the stylus by unscrewing the compliance screw. Then remove the stylus you want to use and put it in the 95 plug. It has to be aligned and tends to move on you a little when you tighten the screw. It takes a little patience and probably a few tries. You have to use a little common sense and not muscle it or you'll bend or break the cantilever. If you buy a stylus with a boron or beryllium cantilever, I think your cart would rival the Maestro, even if you have a less expensive Clearaudio. As I said previously, the specs of all the Clearaudio MMs are identical. That means the generators are the same. The only possible difference is some body difference or maybe the use of OCC wire in some models and not others.

The other development is that I just put the AT-15SS back in action. The 15 is the same as a 20. The 20 is a selected 15. I guess it's like a Grado Gold and Silver? Anyway, this is one of the best MMs I ever heard. I think it's just as good as my Stanton 980LZ, maybe better. So, after I have an exotic stylus in the Virtuoso, I'll have a little comparison.

neo

[glrickaby]

Perhaps a separate post, but on the interchangability of styli, just found the
Shure M91 stylus will fit a Garrott K1-2-3, provided you leave the shaft about a mm out so the stylus does not touch the Garrott body. This is a $12 Pfanstiehl fitted into a $265 type Garrott body.  Down under take notice
as most of the Garrott K series are sold from Australia though I understand
they now have a NA distributor. I'm sure a Jico SAS will work also!

[neobop]

Hi Glrickaby,
What's up with Garrott? Are those the models current? I was under the impression that they're now selling only super expensive ones.

I remember some guy came on VE and said he thought the $1200 one was better than sliced bread. He left because of censorship. Apparently he had a few nice MCs, too. Interesting 

neo

BTW, that guy was from Australia (home of Garrett) - he had some good equipment including a Manley Steelhead and high end TT/arm. Their current offerings look like MCs to me.
http://www.garrottbrothers.com/index.html

[glrickaby]

Believe the K series is still current. Listed at the
Australian dealers and the U.S. distributor never
said anything otherwise. On stylus' only, they may
furnish the same thing for K2 and 3. Last I
checked, Decibelhifi and Terryanderson still had
listings and Needledoctor also,though ND apparently
had no supply when I talked to them. Just Google
Garrott K-2 and these come up. Very fine sound.
I'm sure Garrott's current owners have them made
by some other company just like Goldrings new
series made by Nagaoka, Shelter 201 by Sumiko,
Clearaudios by AT, etc., Appear to be a Shure
design with an updated engine. I've tried M44
and M97 styli but only the M91 works though
the others fit. Of course, the Garrott name was
bought by some other company. The K series
could even be the V15's in a sheeps clothing?
They are definitely mm and lower end from the
mc stuff. simplymusicmarketing@me.com is the US distributor. Only comparison with the "shimmer"
of this K-2 is the Goldring 1042 in my ear.
Tonearm pivet must be raised 3-4 mm for
proper sound.

[neobop]

Looks to me like the K series is history. There are still people selling it and it looks like it could be a good value, but obviously there's no one making it any more. The Garrott bros are dead and the guy who took over is supposed to be making improvements where they left off. No one left to make the K series.

It's the new ones that are supposed to be so good. I guess they're not super expensive, the top one is around $1200? The 88 might be half that. I think they're actually MMs. One has a low output - could be a LOMM like that old Stanton/Pickering. I'll see what I can find out.

So, an M91 stylus - what's that, a bonded elliptical on a straight cantilever? I think I read somewhere there is an SAS that fits the M91. Might make it brighter though, like an M97. You should call LpGear. They're a distributor for Jico. Maybe they have one that fits perfect.

You think those K2 or 3 would be good to get before they're gone? Seems like you really like em. Better than a Virtuoso?

neo

[glrickaby]

Neo- To my ears, they sound better than a Virtuoso-stein. Have a "shimmer" that I like.
Perhaps the difference between a Shure vs AT sound. Can't find words to describe it any
other way. I have two, the OEM and the Shure/hybrid. The hybrid sounds like a souped up
M91, perhaps more the V-15 III type sound. The OEM more like a Goldring 1042. Then again,
the fantasies of an old man.... Believe the K series comes after the passing of the Garrott
Brothers. Things stopped. Old jigs resurrected for a new owner. The 88 was the main line.
Still some around with intensly loyal owners and apparently a new one available along with
higher end new models,well reviewed. Don't know what they actually make and what is
farmed out. Still apparently do retips according to their website. Two dealers in Aus. on
the web. Needledoctor has no stock and apparently doesn't know how to get any,though
still shown on their website. New US distributor back east,believe in NC-Simplymusicmark-
eting does not appear to have a website Apparently the Garrott Bros. were not good
business managers prior to their untimely demise. Will keep Jico in mind but right now
have the K-2 OEM with the extra clone and a little spent out buying TT parts for my
1229. The K-3 is probably the best in the series at around $300 last I looked. Decibel
HiFi is good to deal with. Sorry to mess up your thread with this which is probably a
separate topic....just thought the stylus clone idea was interesting enough to carry
forward on another cartridge. Sorry I picked one under a bushel basket that not
many know about except down under. They need some break in.

[neobop]

Hey GL, don't worry about the thread. It's about stylus substitution and related insanities anyway. I really like the DIY aspects.

A lot of this comes down to taste and preference. So it's good to get a description. The 1042 is the best Goldring I've heard. They have a new top MC that's supposed to be a big step up from the Eroica. Other than that, I never cared for them. IMO the 1042 doesn't hold a candle to a comparably priced AT ($400?). I was never a Shure man either, so I guess this is where we part company as far as preference, shimmer or no shimmer. But don't let me dissuade you from putting your 2 cents in. You've got plenty of company with your preferences.

Some ATs have to be loaded down for flat system response. I think that's the reason many people don't relate. But I never really thought the AT-95 was that close to a Virtuoso. Even my potted and top plated 95 doesn't have the detail and finesse. Just because AT makes Clearaudio and you can stick a stylus in there, doesn't make them the same. So, it still leaves me guessing about the Garretts. I wouldn't dismiss them because of your comparisons, to the contrary, it makes it more intriguing.  I've heard others recommend them too.

I get the impression that Garrett is now a pretty small operation. Wonder if they can increase production. It takes a lot of carts to stock dealers. If they farm it out it would probably be AT or Jico, LOL

neo

[glrickaby]

Try: avguide.com/forum/remembering-the-Garrott-Bros= you can also
google K-2 and it should come up. Interesting history along with current
ownership. Committed ritual suicide in 1991. Actually brought out the K
series as a cheaper alternative to the P77 et al. They hated MC's. Anderson
in Aus. has the complete K line. His site will show up with a K-2 google.I've
had and sold: 1042, Rega Exact, V-15 Vxmr, At440, a Dyno/5, BPS, and
pretty much everything in the same price range and sold them all. My
equipment doesn't justify some of the low MC though I've had the 103
and an AT- believe At130 MC with the changable stylus and a  few
others Like the lower Benz's though generally I prefer a MM or Hoput
MC for a mulitude of reasons. I've kept the Garrotts, Pickering XV-15
(681), some OM Ortofons, and the various guises of the AT95E. I like
the M91(more mellow) as a cheaper alternative to the V-15III(sharper).
Flat response is an ideal but I prefer feeling, shimmer, mellowness and
involvement from my sound and look for the cartridge to provide what
my system may otherwise lack. I also think the M97XE (have 2) shows
potential. In ATs, I like the 120E better than the 440ML I had. My 120/
125E currently has a transplanted stylus only. I like Goldrings in the
new series and have a 2200 and 2300. These are all reasonable company
for most Audiophiles who can't afford to buy whats in the Stereophile
reviews. Coming from this background, suggest you consider Garrott.
If not the K line, then the P77 if you can swing the cost but read
the history first. May our search never be satisfied....nor flat
response a dream fulfilled.
 

[neobop]

Try: avguide.com/forum/remembering-the-Garrott-Bros= you can also
google K-2 and it should come up. Interesting history along with current
ownership. Committed ritual suicide in 1991. Actually brought out the K
series as a cheaper alternative to the P77 et al. They hated MC's. Anderson
in Aus. has the complete K line. His site will show up with a K-2 google.I've
had and sold: 1042, Rega Exact, V-15 Vxmr, At440, a Dyno/5, BPS, and
pretty much everything in the same price range and sold them all. My
equipment doesn't justify some of the low MC though I've had the 103
and an AT- believe At130 MC with the changable stylus and a  few
others Like the lower Benz's though generally I prefer a MM or Hoput
MC for a mulitude of reasons. I've kept the Garrotts, Pickering XV-15
(681), some OM Ortofons, and the various guises of the AT95E. I like
the M91(more mellow) as a cheaper alternative to the V-15III(sharper).
Flat response is an ideal but I prefer feeling, shimmer, mellowness and
involvement from my sound and look for the cartridge to provide what
my system may otherwise lack. I also think the M97XE (have 2) shows
potential. In ATs, I like the 120E better than the 440ML I had. My 120/
125E currently has a transplanted stylus only. I like Goldrings in the
new series and have a 2200 and 2300. These are all reasonable company
for most Audiophiles who can't afford to buy whats in the Stereophile
reviews. Coming from this background, suggest you consider Garrott.
If not the K line, then the P77 if you can swing the cost but read
the history first. May our search never be satisfied....nor flat
response a dream fulfilled.

Well said GL, although I don't think musicality and flat response are mutually exclusive. But I know what you mean. Just because I put a high value on transient response, neutrality and detail, doesn't mean our ultimate goals are different. You have to work with what you've got, and get it to sound like music - something you can relate to. To be honest, my experience with LOMCs - some have the potential to greatly outperform, but they can be hairy, fiddly, and go wrong easier. I also have a phono stage (AHT) to go with. The only MC I have left is a Monster Genesis 1000. I love that cart. It might be better than the current ZYX. There was a 2000 model you'd probably like better. It had gold coils and was a little sweeter. It was a hair slower as well. Sounds like magic on classical. The 1000 is still my ultimate for jazz and all around listening. I like it better than most any $2K - & up cart I've heard. I've heard a few. Some VDHs, maybe that new funny looking Ortofon might be better. There's always something better, unless you're rich and obsessed. IMO the trick is to find what you like and can live with.

So, why budget MMs? They're fun. Replaceable styli and a whole lot more for your money. Some of them sound damn good. I sure wouldn't be tinkering like this with multi thousand dollar carts. Unfortunately, my situation has changed recently and I won't be buying anything for awhile. I'll keep Garrott in mind though for the future. I've seen P77s on Agon a couple of times, and after all the top ones now are around the same $ as a Maestro.
neo

[neobop]

Last night I transplanted an ATN-7V stylus in a 95 plug. I put this on the 95 body for use on the heavy Sony PUA-7 arm. I have it on a Technics headshell which is 4g lighter than stock shell. The 7V stylus is a .2 x .7 nude square shank elliptical on a tapered cantilever. The compliance is 7cu @100Hz and tracks at 2.0g +/- .25g. Initially I had it set at 2.2g. I reduced it to 2.0g and it didn't sound as good, so I'll have to see how that develops. Sometimes it takes a few records for the suspension to loosen up. I chose the 7V because of the compliance/suitability for heavier arms. The Jico 95SA stylus also required 2.2g for best sound, in 2 different arms, one being somewhat lighter (Kenwood 770d).

The 7V is more detailed than the 95SA. This was obvious from the start. Comparisons with the Virtuoso should be interesting. The new stylus sounds cleaner with more impact and bass dynamics. The high end was also more detailed. The shibata was more forgiving and sweeter. I only had time to play a couple of sides of Herbie Hancock's VSOP Live. This LP has electric boogie type bass and electric keyboards. It sounded great. The mix of electric and acoustic might have favored the sound of the new stylus. My impression is that it sounds more like modern ATs, without emphasis on any part of the frequency spectrum.

A note about AT replacement styli. Any modern AT stylus should come in a plastic box with a cardboard outer box. This is a blue and white box that is clearly marked AT w/stylus number, bar code and serial number. LpGear sells genuine AT styli. I bought a ATN150MLX from somebody else, previously. It might have come off a new cart, but it was in a generic box and not packed properly. I can't say that it was used or counterfeit, but it seemed to break  too easily. I also wonder where some companies come up with stock on long discontinued styli. I was on a waiting list for arrival of NOS ATN-155LC stylus. This is long discontinued and nobody has it that I know of. After the last experience, I passed when it came in. Older styli like this or a 15/20SS don't come in the newer AT box, so you have to trust who you're dealing with.
neo

[dlaloum]

Hi Neo

on the topic of AT stylus surgery....

I have an AT20SLa - with an original stylus... but the stylus seems to rotate on its axis at the slightest movement. (Microscope is telling me of uneven wear.... not surprising!)

I thought I would try to see whether I could remove, or just tighten the stylus in place.

Got out my 1mm micro-driver, felt around inside the plastic "plug" (that being the only place I could think of where the screw might be)

Space is so narrow that I really cannot see into it... so it is all by feel.

Moving the driver around I feel something that I think may be a slot, but for the life of me I can't move it....

Am I doing something wrong? looking in the wrong place?

or perhaps has a previous owner gone and super-glued the screw in place....

If I can work this thing out, I might be able to do a transplant to equip the AT20 with a stylus.... I still can't quite mentally work my way up to the current price of the AT15/20ss styli...

bye for now

David