Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond

neobop · « **Reply #1280 on:** 13 Jan 2016, 01:57 am »

Oh man, can the MM/MI thread degenerate further? Now 32 bit coined a new acronym, TEA - true expert audiophile. I like what Atmasphere said about that, "Raul, IMO/IME as soon as someone tries to set themselves up as an expert in this field, they run the risk of Audiophile Guru Syndrome (AGS), wherein if the knowledge does not emit from their mouths then it must be some form of blasphemy. I think we have all seen this at one point or another. IMO true mastery is the understanding of how little one actually knows."

Is this the new TEA party? Instead of conservative politics it's Audiofool Experts?

I first encountered 32 bit shortly after he started the MM/MI thread, which I wasn't aware of. He came on VE and declared MM superiority. I said neither was superior, it depended on design. We had a running battle which was truly bizarre. Instead of someone quoting out of context and twisting things around, it was broken English which seemed deliberately imprecise, with unspecified distortions attributed to virtually all MCs.

Fast forward a few years and 32 bit modifies his high gain stage and declares MCs superior.

He did heighten awareness of MMs and he tried lots of carts. Have to give credit for putting it out there, but now it seems played out. I'd like to hear more from Chakster. He has the energy and enthusiasm.
neo

neobop · « **Reply #1281 on:** 13 Jan 2016, 01:47 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 12 Jan 2016, 12:03 pm

Well, it looks like AT has replaced the 440/120 generator and they're being mysterious about the specs. Here's the deal:

AT-120E & 440MLa - 490mH, 790 DC, 3.2K Imp. AT published specs for AT-120Eb & 440MLb - 610 DC.

What AT cart has 610 ohm DC ? The only one I could find:
http://www.lpgear.com/product/AT5V.html

The 5V is close to the 150MLX. It might be a better motor, but definitely harder to load than the 120/440. The 490mH motor is being phased out. This is virtually the same motor as the 160ML, 155LC, and many more classics.
neo

Now it seems this announcement was in error. 2 AT European sites have the new b models listed wrong. The Japanese and US sites still say the 490mH generator lives on.
neo

smctigue · « **Reply #1282 on:** 19 Jan 2016, 02:07 pm »

I have a theoretical question for the high compliance MM experts. I have a Towhshend Rock mk3 TT with a Rega rb300. This table incorporates a damping trough at the headshell. The damping assembly weighs ~3 grams. Adding this to the mass of the Rega brings it into the 15 gram region. I understand that this arm is ideally too heavy for some of the high compliance MM's. My question is will the headshell damping widen the range of potential compatibility or would I be better off ditching the outrigger in favor of a lighter arm? I am planning on finding a nice arm more suitable but for now, until my daughter graduates college, I'll need to make the Rega work. Thanks for any help with this.

neobop · « **Reply #1283 on:** 19 Jan 2016, 04:45 pm »

Hello Smctigue,
Welcome to vinyl circle, home of the obsessive vinylphile.

There are a lot of aspects to that question and much depends on the particulars and the physical set up. While many consider a resonant frequency outside of the recommended zone an anathema, there are instances where it can sound fine. In this case you're talking about a prospective situation where the resonant frequency might go below the recommended range. Normally (w/o damping), if it stays above the warp region, and the set up is stable, and you have high quality arm bearings it might be okay.

What it boils down to: is the perspective cart better on a damped 15g or undamped 12g Rega 300 ?
One thing you didn't mention, what carts are you talking about? There's a big difference between modern hi cu carts and those of yesteryear. Some vintage carts were 50cu. Today, about the highest they go is 22cu.
I think this might be an important aspect. While the RB300 is a good budget arm, it doesn't have the bearings of a top arm. What have you used on the arm till now?
neo

smctigue · « **Reply #1284 on:** 19 Jan 2016, 05:44 pm »

Thanks Neo, I have three cartridges on the way:

AT20afl
Z-1s w/SAS
A&S P77 w/SAS

The cartridges I've run over the years are:
Benz Glider
Shelter 501 (with added mass)
Dyna 17D3
Denon 103 (with added mass)

neobop · « **Reply #1285 on:** 20 Jan 2016, 12:06 am »

Smctigue, I like your moniker. It seems to roll off the tongue.

Would that be an AT20SLa ? If it's an AT 20 series it doesn't matter, they're all slightly less compliant than a 150MLX or 440.
It tracks max 1.75g. I think it would be good either way, probably better with the damping.

The other two are a little trickier to guess. The SAS stylus is more compliant, but I don't know how much more. Max VTF is 1.5g and compliance is 20 - 25cu? I have no problem with a SAS on an 11g arm and it worked on one of approx. 16g, which leads me to believe they will be fine without the damper. I suspect they will be just as good, perhaps better, with the damper.

Is the paddle easily removed from the headshell? If so, you tell us. You must have had this set up for awhile so I guess you know the importance of the right amount of damping. Can you vary the surface area of the paddle? Do you ever change fluid viscosity?
Regards,
neo

Halcro · « **Reply #1286 on:** 20 Jan 2016, 02:52 am »

Quote

AT20afl
Z-1s w/SAS
A&S P77 w/SAS

Nice selection of MM cartridges sm......

smctigue · « **Reply #1287 on:** 20 Jan 2016, 11:09 pm »

Quote from: Halcro on 20 Jan 2016, 02:52 am

Nice selection of MM cartridges sm......

Thanks Halcro, deciding on the P77 & the Z1 was largely due to the experiences that you shared in the epic Raul thread. The AT20SLa arrived today. I installed it with the damping outrigger. Breaking it in now, first impressions are quite positive. I really didn't know what to expect having not heard an MM in thirty years and never a higher end model. Frankly, I am a bit blown away by what I am hearing. More to follow.

Halcro · « **Reply #1288 on:** 20 Jan 2016, 11:56 pm »

I actually didn't like the AT20ss (Limited Edition) when I bought one. It was strident and quite brittle on top with little midrange warmth or bass to compensate....but maybe I just had a bad sample

The other two cartridges you are expecting, are two of my favourites.....

Waiting to hear your thoughts...
Good luck

neobop · « **Reply #1289 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 03:47 pm »

I think it's easy to get an erroneous impression of a cart model, especially a vintage sample. The AT 15/20 series are old round plugs. The round plugs were phased out in the early/mid '80s. Any sample will be 30+ yrs. old.

As long as the suspension and stylus are good (no small thing), age does not disqualify from "proper" performance, but it becomes more likely the coils are damaged. Jonathan Carr told us that laminated coils are more likely to be damaged. A TOTL AT is likely to have them.
How do coils get damaged? Accidently dropped on a hard floor is one way. The cart might still produce sound, but..... Sometimes people get frustrated and throw stuff across the room. A cart that still works, but suffered abuse or doesn't sound right, is likely to be sold.

That Signet MR5.0ML I bought is a good example. The 490mH generator sounds bad. Luckily, there's still life in the stylus and that's what I bought it for.
neo

smctigue · « **Reply #1290 on:** 21 Jan 2016, 04:37 pm »

Quote from: Halcro on 20 Jan 2016, 11:56 pm

I actually didn't like the AT20ss (Limited Edition) when I bought one. It was strident and quite brittle on top with little midrange warmth or bass to compensate....but maybe I just had a bad sample
The other two cartridges you are expecting, are two of my favourites.....
Waiting to hear your thoughts...
Good luck

I have no issue with the highs or bass with my sample (NOS) but I do agree regarding the midrange. A bit lean for me. The P77 arrives today, I'll let you kmow how it goes with it.

Halcro · « **Reply #1291 on:** 22 Jan 2016, 01:02 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 21 Jan 2016, 03:47 pm

I think it's easy to get an erroneous impression of a cart model, especially a vintage sample. The AT 15/20 series are old round plugs. The round plugs were phased out in the early/mid '80s. Any sample will be 30+ yrs. old.

As long as the suspension and stylus are good (no small thing), age does not disqualify from "proper" performance, but it becomes more likely the coils are damaged. Jonathan Carr told us that laminated coils are more likely to be damaged. A TOTL AT is likely to have them.
How do coils get damaged? Accidently dropped on a hard floor is one way. The cart might still produce sound, but..... Sometimes people get frustrated and throw stuff across the room. A cart that still works, but suffered abuse or doesn't sound right, is likely to be sold.

That Signet MR5.0ML I bought is a good example. The 490mH generator sounds bad. Luckily, there's still life in the stylus and that's what I bought it for.
neo

A valuable point to remember Neo....
However.....taken to its extreme, there would be no 'poor' cartridges. Only good ones and damaged ones..

neobop · « **Reply #1292 on:** 9 Feb 2016, 02:24 am »

Not sure if we talked about this on this forum - UNIDIN alignment is a legit alternate alignment. Nulls - 66.3, 112.5mm

Here are more conventional nulls:
Stevenson - 60.325, 117.42mm
Baerwald - 66.0, 117.42mm
Loefgren(B) - 70.3, 116.6mm

You can read something about this in Stereophile or Analog Planet and see the alignment error curves. It looks pretty good. I was playing with the numbers and what you won't read is that the alignment is nearly identical to Loefgren, but moved inward about 5mm. The distance between Loefgren nulls is 46.3mm. UNIDIN is 46.2mm.

Nice to get away from Agon. What'shisname is really a block head. Guess every forum has one.
neo

Halcro · « **Reply #1293 on:** 9 Feb 2016, 02:58 am »

I like the new avatar Neo...

I have had Dietrich's UniProtractor for four years now and for every arm I have had (maybe 10-12).....there is a snap-in template which is aligned for Unidin.
My Dynavector DV-507/II is the only arm where I use Dynavector's jig (which I suspect is Stevenson alignment).
The adjustment of the FR-64s to 231.5mm P to S from the nominal 230mm I don't think is necessarily related to this alignment. It's just that Dietrich Brakmeier believes it sounds better at that slightly greater distance.
As for the Unidin alignment.....I have no complaints but then I have my suspicions about the claims some have made about hearing VAST differences between the various alignments.
I do not hear such differences and I have no problems with inner groove distortions....

neobop · « **Reply #1294 on:** 12 Feb 2016, 04:33 pm »

In case you didn't recognize her with the er, hair that way, the new avatar is Scarlett Johansson. I'd rather listen to those old jazz guys, and look at something pleasing in a different way.

According to VE the nulls for the 507 II are 60.1 and 116.6mm. That puts the inner null next to Stevenson at the lead out, and the outer null is Loefgren. This should optimize the middle and end of the record.

Hey Smctigue,
Get a chance to check out more carts? We'd be interested in your thoughts.
neo

ACHiPo · « **Reply #1295 on:** 13 Feb 2016, 06:21 am »

Quote from: neobop on 12 Feb 2016, 04:33 pm

In case you didn't recognize her with the er, hair that way, the new avatar is Scarlett Johansson. I'd rather listen to those old jazz guys, and look at something pleasing in a different way.

Like what you've done with the place

neobop · « **Reply #1296 on:** 14 Feb 2016, 06:33 am »

I thought some eye candy might boost morale, but I'm not sure. Have you noticed this circle seems to be dying?

In the last digital vs analog war I had about 4 or 5 posts deleted by the thought police. I should have ignored the thread, but how do you ignore something so prominent? They come out of the woodwork to piss on our parade. After finally succeeding in having the thread removed, they clean it up and reinstate it. I got in a couple of good shots especially with FullRangeMan, but he's a member of the thought police..... I followed their rules with that one, but it was deleted anyway. Did you notice, the thought police were entirely digital supporters?
Definition of a volunteer - 1) a politically correct Nazi with a little authority 2) One who volunteers because that's what they're worth 3) A jerk with a blister on his hand who tries to rub up against you.

By the time Sunnydazed attacked in your thread, I guess I was burned out. How do you respond when you're quoted out of context, claimed to have said things you didn't say, and characterized by embarrassing names? Maybe Scarlett looks too good for this place. I'm sick of it.
Back to biz.
neo

S Clark · « **Reply #1297 on:** 14 Feb 2016, 01:53 pm »

Careful. You're attracting attention.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #1298 on:** 14 Feb 2016, 04:37 pm »

Quote from: S Clark on 14 Feb 2016, 01:53 pm

Careful. You're attracting attention.

neobop · « **Reply #1299 on:** 14 Feb 2016, 05:03 pm »

Holy sirens of Ulysses, Batman. I feel a strange attraction to that vortex. Only know of one way to resist.

neo