[neobop]

Noise reduction with mono cart:



This is a record I found in my basement.  I pulled it out of my gallery here.  It was so noisy I couldn't listen to it with a stereo cart and mono switch.
I replayed it with a mono cart and you guessed it, almost dead silent.  I put the needle down and I thought I had the wrong input selected on the preamp.

Might be hard to believe, but it's true.  The SQ is still grainy and it's not my cup of tea anyhow, but the noise reduction is amazing.  This record is old enough that it might require a fatter stylus, I don't know. 

Still thinking about an ART7, ART9, and 50ANV.   Griff likes the ART9 and I'm starting to come around to his way of thinking.  The coreless ART7 and 50ANV might be better from a purist point of view, but I suspect the fun factor is higher with the 9.  Just like the Z1/SAS only better?
neo

[neobop]

All the news that fits:
When we left off a couple of tables were in need of repair.  Halcro's TT101 went to his tech and my X50 had arm trouble.

Thinking about the purchase of a vintage DD brings concerns about longevity and repairs.  Many of these tables are around 35 yrs. old, and to avoid potential problems the electrolytic caps should be replaced.  These caps might be functioning properly, but they are designed to last about 15 yrs. and if they fail they could take out another part like a chip that's no longer made.

I'm happy to report that Halcro's 101 is fixed - old solder joints on a complex board were faulty.  I believe he is now redesigning the base.
I've identified a couple of problems with my PUA-7 tonearm.  The arm has VTA OTF like a 1200 arm with a collet which loosens and tightens by   thumbscrew.  It's loose.   It looks like the arm return mechanism which involves a pushrod and cam, is tilting the arm.  I think the best solution is to remove the cams attached to the bottom of the arm and defeat the semi-auto function.  Maybe the thumbscrew can be tightened and I won't have to put a sleeve around the arm pillar.   More on this later.
neo

[S Clark]

Noise reduction with mono cart:

This is a record I found in my basement.  I pulled it out of my gallery here.  It was so noisy I couldn't listen to it with a stereo cart and mono switch.
I replayed it with a mono cart and you guessed it, almost dead silent.  I put the needle down and I thought I had the wrong input selected on the preamp.

Might be hard to believe, but it's true.  The SQ is still grainy and it's not my cup of tea anyhow, but the noise reduction is amazing.  This record is old enough that it might require a fatter stylus, I don't know. 

In my experience this is the rule rather than the exception.  It is part of what attracted me to the Denon 102 years ago (that, and the fact that I picked up a used one cheap). When buying lp's now, I'll take a chance on a VG or VG+ if it's mono that I wouldn't touch if it was stereo. 

[neobop]

In my experience this is the rule rather than the exception.  It is part of what attracted me to the Denon 102 years ago (that, and the fact that I picked up a used one cheap). When buying lp's now, I'll take a chance on a VG or VG+ if it's mono that I wouldn't touch if it was stereo. 

Interesting comment and endorsement for used mono records which may be in questionable condition.   The microgroove was adopted willy-nilly mostly throughout the '50s and a smaller modern stylus might track part of the groove further down than a larger vintage stylus.  This could be even more effective than a long contact type on a stereo recording tracing more than the limited contact of an elliptical.  That reduces the percentage of noise, but includes it in the output.  There's a chance that a smaller spherical or elliptical will virtually eliminate it in mono.

This brings up a question of another budget mono cart, the Ortofon OM D25M.  This cart can still be purchased at LP Gear for $89.  It has a 1 mil spherical tip and low compliance.  VTF is 2 - 3g.  Obviously this was made for vintage wide groove records.  The thing is, the body looks like the other OMs in which styli can be swapped.  Ortofon has a single magnet configuration so this is a distinct possibility. 
Someone on another forum suggested this is a regular cart like the Ortofon OM3, but in Ortofon historical specs, output is listed as lateral.   This leads me to believe that OM type styli can indeed be swapped and an OM3 stylus (bonded .3 x .7) is $40.  Other Ortofon styli get expensive though.  When the tip wears out on my AT MONO3 HOMC, it goes to a re-tipper or in the trash. 

If anyone knows about these please let us know.  I'll see what I can find out.
neo

[neobop]

That didn't take long.  The styli can be swapped according to someone on Lenco Heaven.   You can play a modern reissue with a 1 mil spherical.  You will have greater groove contact and many mono records are not pressed to the lead-out groove, so IND and pinch effect might be alleviated. 
N.B.  A cart takes on the VTF/cu of the stylus. 

Funny thing about the Ortofon OM series, the more expensive OM Super generators have more inductance/resistance than the less expensive OM3, OM5.
I assume this is for better balance with preamp matching.  Higher inductance tends to be easier to get smooth amplitude response.  The less expensive OM might require more careful loading, but might have greater potential for extension and transparency with an appropriate stylus. 

On another front, I now have a JVC Z1-S.  It came with an upgraded elliptical stylus.  As Griff reported previously, these are a little hard to source.  The X and Z models were not sold in the US.  Several months ago I saw quite a few in Japan, on Hifishark.  It looks like they're drying up as I haven't seen many of them lately.  Mine came from France - European fleabey.
neo

[griffithds]

Hello Neo,

Good to hear about your purchase of the Z-1.  I expect you will be placing an order for a SAS? 
I have been watching also, not that I need extra spares but only to keep up with where to find them.  I was surprise to read that you found yours in Europe!  France of
all places.  I guess it doesn't matter 'where' as long as 'did find'!  There is one on the Jauce site in Japan at the moment.  It is the Z-1EB version in case anyone is looking.
Regards,
Don

[neobop]

Hi Griff,
It's hard to ignore the impact of some of these threads like Who needs a MM/MI.  Especially with the resurgence, people are looking for direction. 

Do you think this influence is exaggerated?  After all, the number of X1/Z1 listed, went from 10 or 12 to a single example in a few months, but that only means that 11 were sold, and Halcro and you account for 6 or 8 ?    
Maybe it means that quite a few more were listed and disappeared as they were sold. 
BTW, anyone searching should first look under Victor as the brand name. 

I got mine recently and I just mounted it on the Alphason 100, but I haven't even played it yet.  I had the Genesis on there with a 3.3g lead spacer to take the arm mass up to around 14g. 
It didn't work out - over damped and bass heavy.  Maybe if I put the weight on top of the headshell instead of between shell and cart, it would have been okay. 
I'm taking my AHT phono out of the picture for awhile.  It's about 25 yrs old now and needs a little TLC.  I should learn how to DIY, but I don't want to practice on the AHT.  I'm awaiting delivery of a custom Vista.  Even if it's not the ultimate phono I suspect it's pretty damn good and should be an invaluable tool.  Mine will have custom loading of both resistance and capacitance. 

Stayed tuned to this thread for more exciting(?) developments.   
neo

[griffithds]

Hi Neo,

  Those Victor listings are being sold to someone other than I.    I have a couple of X-1 bodies but only one of the Z-1 bodies.  I do have spare (original) Beryllium cantilever/Shibata's for both of them.  Those were hard to come by.  Hard to believe but the Z-1 original Beryllium in NOS condition was won by me for only $25 on the Jauce auction.  I still find it hard to believe that I got a NOS Beryllium cantilever for that cheap! Those things are worth more than Gold!
I do hope that our discussions convince people just how great of a bargain these JVC cartridges are.  Both the X-1 or the Z-1 with the SAS.  They are by far, the ''biggest bang for the buck'' of  any cartridge I have ever heard.  No cartridge is perfect but if you are going to spend your money, at least get your money's worth!
  When I saw your statement about mounting on the Alphson 100 arm, I cringed.  Excellent arm BTW.  I owned one mounted on a SOTA Sapphire table  but hated mounting and then adjusting cartridges on it.  Definitely a mount and forget project.  Currently I use 2 turntables so I do wish I had kept that Alphson.  I would have mounted one of my top harem members on it and left it set up that way for ever.  The other table would have a arm with a removable head shell so that I could rotate and try different new discoveries.
  I also am waiting for a piece of equipment to return from upgrade work.  My project is a Denon HA 500 head amp.  I am having it converted to a 2 input design.  Having the Capacitors bought up to date as well.  I figured that if a Tech is in there, might as well get as much done as possible!
Cheers,
Don

 

[neobop]

Last night I installed the Z1/E and played Oscar Peterson Trio live in Chicago.  I haven't heard the Z1 with a stylus other than SAS, and apparently I didn't do an adequate job of securing the X1 orig stylus when I had it here.  With the E stylus the Z1 doe not have the awesome speed and resolution as with SAS.  What it does have is a more relaxed, "musical" presentation, with many of the attributes formerly discussed.  Even the frequency response seems  better at 47K/100pF preamp.  With a grand total of 1 record played w/E, I would say it's hard to go wrong obtaining one of these.  It seems to have an eminently listenable sound with nice detail.  This stylus might be Jico - not sure.  The SAS is relatively inexpensive for a boron/MR which makes this a real bargain. 

I  have the 980LZ (30cu) set up on the Unitrac.  My AHT stage wants no part in amplifying this cart.  DC offset wouldn't stabilize.  I'm not sure if this is due to the relatively high inductance, the ground strap on the cart, or the phono stage needs service.   Anyway, I had it plugged into an old TOTL Mitsubishi tuner/preamp that John TCG gave me.  MC load was 270 ohms.  BTW, this preamp phono is better than you might think - nice results with a variety of carts.
Enter Vista phono to clear things up.  I set gain at 60dB and load at 1K/0.pF.  I expected the performance to improve significantly with optimum load, but not to this degree.  This set up went from mid-fi to high end, in a hurry.  I think this is another bargain at $300.  I'm quite pleased with these last 2 acquisitions.
neo

[griffithds]

Neo,

  I have no problem with tuner/preamps.  I've owned a few of them myself during my long life.  Those that listen with their ears instead of their wallet would find many of them quite  underrated.  I had a Carver and a Adcom that was of this configuration and sometimes wish I still had them.  Especially the Carver.
Out of all the audio stuff that I have owned in my entire life, the thing that I wish the most that I hadn't traded in were a pair of those David Bernings AE-230  amps.  I had them wired in mono for 60 watts (tube watts), each side.  I still to this day, want to kick myself for that mistake!  Scary biasing those tubes though.  You had to stick your hands inside of the unit while it was turned upside down and turned on to adjust the bias of those tube with the uses of a multi-meter.  Many times I thought I was not going to live through one of those experiences! Entire thing was hard wired. No circuit boards and ran quite HOT!   I traded it in for one of the first BAT VK60 amps to come to California.  Auto-bias is what sold me on that trade.
Regards,

[neobop]

Griff,
That must have been one sweet sound - Berning OTLs turned into monoblocks.  Were there speaker impedance considerations with strapping? 
Those amps were legendary.  The biasing routine was crazy, but it's a shame you traded them.  Berning came out with a Z_ 230 which was self-biasing and had a mod for the AE to do the same. 

Your experience reminds me of my electrostatic direct drive (OTL) tube amps built by Dan Fanny of AHT.  Each amp had 4 big high voltage cap tubes.  It had banks of storage caps each of which totaled 5KV, so it was not only relatively high voltage, but had some current as well.

One day I was in my usual stupor after work and one of the speakers stopped playing.  Looking behind the panels I saw a wire between amp and panel was disconnected.  Forgetting to turn off the amp I started to reconnect.  The attraction pulled the wire across my hand and it sounded like M80 went off in the house.  No big deal except I was glued to the wire and I couldn't let go.  The electricity entered the side of my hand under my forefinger and came out the other side at my wrist, opposite my thumb.  I couldn't reach anything to turn the beast off so I said my prayers.  Then it came to me and I used my body weight by falling away from it, to break free.  It threw me across the room and I hit the wall about 4 feet off the floor.  It took a few days to recover. 

I sold the amps after that, but I wish I hadn't.   They were awesome.
Regards,

[griffithds]

   I was young back then Neo.  I didn't care about speaker impedance.  Yes, I did blow a few.  I blamed it on the volume knob position (10+).   The amps were bullet proof!
   You didn't have to go rubbing it in by reminding me of that auto-bias mod!!!!  After all these years, I had forgotten about those.  I sure wish I had those amps today.  I had some big Robins egg blue colored Capacitors installed in both of them.  I forget the names of them but they were the hot ticket back then. I'll probably remember their names about 2:00 in the morning.
  There has been a pre-amp by David Berning being listed lately on eBay.  I have a hard time not hitting the 'Buy it now' button.  That guy can build some great equipment.  Some of his circuit ideas seem to be out there in left field but boy, they sure sound good!  But I guess those strange ideas are what makes up a circuit from the mind of a genius.
   Scary story about your panels.  You could of bit the big one on that mistake.  We have done some stupid things in our day in the name of furthering this hobby of ours!   With that kind of current those amps  had, you could of taken up arc welding! 
Regards,

[griffithds]

Well Neo,

   The names of those capacitors came to me but later than expected.  About 5:00am. 
The were ''WonderCaps".  Those things were massive!
Regards,

[neobop]

Griff,
Big blue caps - were they storage caps, like big electrolitics?   They're often blue.   

The Wonder Caps I remember were white metalized polypropylene - like non-polarized speaker caps.  They were also used as coupling caps in amps. 

Here's my tube amp:



The big blue caps are storage and the yellow are Rel Cap polystyrene coupling.  Maybe Wonder made some blue ones?
Regards, 

[neobop]

I forgot to mention this the other day.  I was using a Pickering D3001 - nude .2 x .7 on my 980.  It seems to edge out the Jico D81 shibata most times.
I was playing a noisy used record and switched stylus to the shibata with a significant reduction in noise.  The noise advantage of greater vertical contact was obvious in this instance.  Many noisy used records were damaged with a worn elliptical or spherical stylus. 

A .2 mil elliptical has the smallest contact area of any stylus.  All things (quality/polish) being equal it will wear out the fastest. 
I know we have gone over this before, but this is a long thread and it bears repeating.  Extended contact types have the greatest longevity and are kinder to the record, spreading contact over a greater area.  The downside is more critical set-up - alignment and VTA/SRA variations.
neo

[griffithds]

Neo,

 You are probably right.  But it is those big blue ones that always were in the way when I had to stick my hands inside to adjust bias so that is  probably why I vividly remember those so well.  I shutter now just thinking about doing that necessary process. 
Regards,

[neobop]

I haven't lived with Vista long enough to give you anything more than a preliminary, but I think this little guy has some potential.   With the 980LZ there seemed to be a noise problem at higher than listening levels (volume), and connecting the ground wire to the line stage made a difference for the better.
Note - there is no ground lug on Vista.  You either float the ground or connect it to your amp or preamp.  Connecting it could be a problem for those with painted chassis screws and no ground connection.  I used the phono ground on the preamp. 
I didn't realize I had a bad cable from preamp to amp which could be the entire problem.  After I fixed the cable the ground didn't make much difference, but there was still noise above loud listening levels.  I loaded it at 1Kohm, 0.pF.  That could be the problem with low level noise.  Little guy might need some capacitance to filter out ultra high frequency noise.  Despite past misinformation, a cap in parallel is a low pass filter, not high pass, but it also lowers high frequency cantilever resonance - some bad with good?
I still have the 980 set up and I'll get back to that and be more definitive about noise/capacitance loading.  BTW, gain was at 60dB.  980LZ output is .3mV.
I wanted to check out Vista and Z1E so I set it at 47K/100pF/40dB to compare to Revelation phono section.   If there's one thing the Revelation II does right, it's the phono and I was surprised when Vista seemed to beat it easily.  Shades of my AHT?? 
Lets see how it can drive the amp through a passive preamp.  I upped the gain to 50dB and removed the caps.  I have a 1m Ultimate tonearm cable + the 100S internal wire for capacitance.  Enough?  Apparently not.  For a couple of minutes Vista sounded remarkably like AHT.  It was blowing my mind until it started getting congested and went into oscillation.  I'm pretty sure this was due to no caps.  I put 50pF in there and it seems to be cured.   
I've since reset to 40dB gain and I think 100pF was better with the Z1.  I'm awaiting a shipment of resistors and caps so higher capacitance will have to wait. 


Vista atop AHT with a lead brick holding it down.

neo

[neobop]

A couple of developments - I tried some new (to me) load resistors for Vista.  They make a difference, perhaps more of a difference than with AHT.  Maybe that's because AHT is so well regulated?  You couldn't buy the parts for anything close to the price of Vista, which makes it such a remarkable value.  I'm not saying Vista is as good, but it's clean, neutral and eminently listenable.

Anyhoo, these load resistors are KOA Speer 1/4 watt 1% metal film.  They're better than the supplied Dale IMO - cleaner, more neutral and transparent.  They disappear and get out of the way.  Here they are:
http://www.mouser.com/KOA-Speer/Passive-Components/Resistors/_/N-5g9n?P=1z0wljoZ1z0zlrrZ1z0z819Z1yzbpod
I order extra and match them exactly. 

Some carbon or tantalum resistors sound sweet, sort of like tubes.  Parts Connection has some nice ones if you want a softer sound.  For gain resistors I like IRC RC55 series 0.1% metal film.  These were my go-to resistors for everything, nice sound and no need to match:
http://www.mouser.com/TT-Electronics/Passive-Components/Resistors/Through-Hole-Resistors/_/N-7h7z5?P=1yvjsv8Z1z0z819Z1z0vpm5
They might not have the exact value you need.  They stock one value for Vista gain (20.1 ohm?).   The other value is 47.5 ohms, which they didn't have. 

Audiofreaks with lots of money like Vishay nudies:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_vishay_var.html

Old school:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_shinkoh_half_watt.html

http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_tantalm_half_watt.html
I've tried tantalum - they sound nice.  I don't know what to tell you. 

My version of Vista has custom loading for both capacitance and resistance.  This involves two sets of sockets next to each other where the load resistors go.  My impression thus far indicates it's better with some capacitance loaded and the double load is a bit of a PIA.   So, I would recommend ordering it with the value you want for your MM(s) if that's feasible,  50 to 100pF for most.  If you need some, I use silver mica 1% if I can find them.  Try to keep the voltage rating down,  the leads might not fit in the socket.  Here's some:
http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Mica-Capacitors/_/N-5g97?P=1z0z7l5Z1z0wljo

On another front, I picked up a Victor UA7045 arm.  She is a beauty babe, nice and curvy w/big skate knob and removable headshell.  Maybe a tonearm should be considered male, in which case he's strong and rigid.


This isn't my arm.  Mine is in surgery - should be fine.
neo

[ACHiPo]

On another front, I picked up a Victor UA7045 arm.  She is a beauty babe, nice and curvy w/big skate knob and removable headshell.  Maybe a tonearm should be considered male, in which case he's strong and rigid.


This isn't my arm.  Mine is in surgery - should be fine.
neo

Neo,
 

Just know that my thoughts are with your tonearm as it goes "under the knife".

Have a new development in my search for a mono option after my trip to P-town and will post shortly.

Best,
AC

[neobop]

In these endeavors I enlist the help of a personal assistant and my lifelong inspiration:




neo