[griffithds]

Hi Halcro,

   In regards to your question about the X-1 MKIIE.   All the X-1 generators are the same.  Personally, I feel that anything in the X-1 model line would be very good contenders. Also the Z-1 models but after that, they became 'P' mounts and cheaper manufactured clones of the Z-1.  I am a bit surprised at how far JVC took this line.  I have even seen a Z-6 which had the Z-1 conical replacement stylus attached, but I am only most familiar with those that are between the X-1 and the Z-1 lines.  I own a Z-1 MKIIE and consider it a very good elliptical performer.  The only X-1's that I own are the both the original and the MKII versions.  The Professor also owns a Z-1 MKIIE and also considers it a good performer.  I'm not positive but I think that all the X-1's had beryllium cantilevers.  With the Z-1, only the top model was beryllium, the rest were aluminium alloy. Not saying anything is wrong with 'alloy',  just making that clarification.  I also own the Jico Nivico replacement cantilever for the X-1 MKII.    It is not beryllium but I'll be damned if I can hear any difference.  Voiced very similar to the original.
Regards, 

[neobop]

Change the stylus on a Virtuoso - that's how this thread got started.  I was looking on page 1 for photos and noticed it's been over 4 years.

All the Clearaudio MM are an AT95 motor and body in a wood jacket or wood top.  That's a 400mH neutral sounding generator.  To replace the stylus you get an AT with the same plug, trim off the excess plastic and it fits right in the receptacle. 


AT95 plug

There are four types of AT plugs.  The 100/120 series is top one today - fits the 150, 440 etc.  The older AT10 through 20 are the round plugs.  The 3400 series is a different size rectangular plug, and fits the AT95, 3400, 3600, etc. and many P-mounts like the 92E and all those with the long sides.  The fourth type is the screw-in like on AT22 -25 and some Signets.
Here is my Virtuoso series 1 with an ATN92E:


Before all the plastic was trimmed.

To do a transplant you have to use the compliance screw to remove the entire stylus assembly from the plug.  Then you replace it with the donor.  Stock 3400 series styli have no screw so you have to first buy an aftermarket replacement. 
neo

[Halcro]

Neo,
I have the ATN7V...
When I remove the screw from the original Virtuoso stylus and plug in the ATN7V, do I need the screw or not?

Yes...the 507/II is a fascinating arm..


I'm not sure I understand your question re. SRA?
The "tube" at the rear of the headshell caters only for vertical pivoting and VTF of the headshell...




The VTA or SRA is handled by raising or lowering the entire arm via the adjustment lever at the base of the arm just as the MA-505 arm does....

This arm is so heavy and dependent on perfect levelling and rigid mounting that Dynavector refused to sell me one unless I had a separate armpod...
When supported correctly...this arm is hard to beat...

[neobop]

"I have the ATN7V...
When I remove the screw from the original Virtuoso stylus and plug in the ATN7V, do I need the screw or not?"

The ATN7V sounds very nice in a 95/Clearaudio.  IMO a little better than all the bonded aftermarket ones.  Compliance is just a hair higher than the 95 styli so it's good for heavier arms. 

You can't remove the compliance screw from the Virtuoso plug because it doesn't have one.  All AT 3400 series styli have a press fitting and no screw which is more evidence that AT makes the entire cart except the wood, for CA.  Anyhoo, for a transplant you first need an aftermarket stylus like a 95SE, which is a Jico .3 x .7 - and has the screw. 
Scrape off the paint covering the screws and loosen each.  The screw only holds it in place, it doesn't adjust compliance.  Once loosened, the stylus will pull out easily and you can make the substitution.  It's fiddly - you might have to try multiple times before you get it perfect.  The magnets have to be aligned in a V and compliance is maintained by putting a little pressure on the rubber donut.

Timeltel wrote a nice description on Agon and I copied it somewhere here on this thread.  There are more detailed instructions near the beginning of this thread and again on page 6 methinks, but that's basically it.
neo

[neobop]

When Lew brought up an issue with the 507 II it sparked my curiosity and I read the manual.  Maybe it's the translation but it seemed to say that the tube behind the headshell must be parallel to the record.  It seems to me if you raise or lower the back of the arm that tube will no longer be parallel?

I haven't played with one of these, but I think this might be a misunderstanding.
neo

[Halcro]

Neo,
The "tube" behind the headshell is firmly attached to the rectangular beam of the main tonearm which moves only horizontally. Therefore it and the "tube" are ALWAYS parallel to the record..
Regards

[neobop]

The "tube" at the rear of the headshell caters only for vertical pivoting and VTF of the headshell...


The VTA or SRA is handled by raising or lowering the entire arm via the adjustment lever at the base of the arm just as the MA-505 arm does....

That's what I thought.  The arm has VTA on the fly?  The smaller tube allows for vertical motion and rotates - does not stay parallel with the main arm.
Check the owners manual.  It indicates the tube connected to the headshell is supposed to be level to the record when the cart is in playing position.  This would disallow tail up or down VTA/SRA.  That's what Lew and I were discussing on Agon.  He seemed to think that was the case. 
If the arm has such a VTA provision I have to assume the parallel thing is for initial instillation.
neo

[Halcro]

No....you're misunderstanding.
The cartridge pivots up and down around the tube.
You've pasted my second photo which is the cartridge in the 'down' position. Compare that to the first photo with the cartridge in the 'up' position.
You will see that the "tube" hasn't moved relative to the main 'beam' yet the counterweight and cartridge have...

[Halcro]

Neo,
If you download the Manual from Vinyl Engine it may become clearer...?
Then again...it may not, in which case you will simply have to play with one...

[neobop]

I didn't know the headshell pivots independently.  Still, it doesn't look like it would work without the tube pivoting as well.  The big circular connector between the main arm and the tube is just to connect them?  Sure doesn't look like it.
Strange arm, glad it sounds good. 

One of my power amps has volume controls.  It's an old Mitsu 150 wpc.  I normally keep the pots full on to effectively take them out of the circuit.  But I dislike line stages so I'm going directly from a phono stage into the Mitsu.  This is like using a passive except easier to drive.  The phono stage doesn't have to drive the passive and extra cables.  It is a little inconvenient changing the volume, but it has a purity to the set-up.  That's how I've been listening to the Z1.  I now have it on the HR-100S and it's sounding pretty good. 
neo

[neobop]

There was an immediate attraction as soon as I heard the Z1/SAS.  In some ways it sounds like the Genesis.  It's fast and articulate and sounds better than the X1.  I can only talk about my limited experience with these two.  Maybe the stock X1 stylus was worn, or the body wasn't the best sample like the MR5.0ML I bought recently, or the loose fitting stylus wasn't secured enough with the tack, but whatever, the Z1/SAS is noticeably better.  I didn't measure it, but the cantilever looks shorter.  It 's a pain to align.

It's also finicky like the Genesis.  They have boron/microridge in common.  Maybe that contributes to a similar touchiness with VTA and VTF.  I'm tracking at 1.8g and I just reduced it to 1.75 and everything fell apart, got all grainy, distant and indistinct.  This was side 2 of the same Fathead Newman LP I played with the X1.  Side 1 was excellent.  I really didn't expect that to be so dramatic. 
Adjusting VTA/SRA also reminds me of the Genesis.  It's the way the sound changes.  I'm not hesitant about changing these things, but each adjustment is a tedious affair with the 100S.  I'm tempted to try the Unitrac, but I don't know, it sounds pretty good on Alphie. 

I'm still trying for perfection and I'm not there yet, so I'm hesitant to discuss shortcomings I might yet work out.  I will say this, it doesn't miss on those piano records like the X1. 
neo

[Halcro]

Neo,
Jico recommend tracking all SAS styli at 1.25Gm....
This provided a conundrum as John and Brian Garrott insisted on 1.75Gm for their P77.
Perhaps the reduced contact area of the SAS styli equalises the pressure?
At any rate....all my SAS styli are happily tracking at the recommended VTF....
Regards

[neobop]

Halcro,
Actually, Jico recommends 1.25g +/- .25g.  This looks like it was written when they only had Shure SAS replacements.  I'll try a lower setting, but I think Jico knows more about jewels and setting diamonds, than phono carts.  Remember what David said about the resonance of their longer cantilevered SAS ?
If Jico knew what they were doing like a cart manufacturer (AT), they would have redesigned the cantilever.  David's running 600 - 700pF to flatten response on Shure/SDS low inductance models!  That's not only ridiculous, those are the first ones they came out with, which proves my point. 

I figure the short cantilever on the JVC is what saves it from a similar fate.  A shorter cantilever will have a higher resonant frequency, all else being equal.  But I'll try it anyway.  As far as your Garrott, the stylus determines the correct tracking force, but in this case I'd say, use your ears.
Regards,
neo

[griffithds]

Hi Neo,

   I think you have your description of Jico backwards.  Morita, the head phono cartridge guy at Jico is the person who designed the Sony XL series of cartridges. I own a Sony XL-55 and a XL-88.  Both highly sought after and thought of in the audio World. 
He partnered with VdH and a 3rd person for its development and manufacture.   He was a Sony employee at the time and has a long history in cantilevers and styli manufacture.   There might be more money to be made on the side of the company that you have mentioned, but it is not the only division where expertise is demanded and provided. 
Regards, 

[neobop]

Hi Neo,

   I think you have your description of Jico backwards.  Morita, the head phono cartridge guy at Jico is the person who designed the Sony XL series of cartridges. I own a Sony XL-55 and a XL-88.  Both highly sought after and thought of in the audio World. 
He partnered with VdH and a 3rd person for its development and manufacture.   He was a Sony employee at the time and has a long history in cantilevers and styli manufacture.   There might be more money to be made on the side of the company that you have mentioned, but it is not the only division where expertise is demanded and provided. 
Regards,

Hi Griff,
That's nice, but past glories or accomplishments aren't what we're talking about. 

David: "At 27k/700pf the V15V-SAS sounds like a V15V - neutral, detailed, yet relaxed, without loosing dynamics." 

Yea, great job.   

Are you kidding me? 
Regards,

[neobop]

Halcro,
Thanks for the suggestion.  I reduced VTF and it seems to work out.  I haven't finalized the situation yet.
neo

[Halcro]

Neo,
Happy listening....
Regards

[neobop]

I can see why professional reviewers often take a month or three to evaluate.  A lot of time can be lost pursuing an erroneous assumption, and combining such things as set-up and loading, can also be time consuming.  Now that I'm tracking < 1.5g I'm tempted even more to switch to the Unitrac.  With the cart clip re-soldered it's fully functional again.


This is mine w/980LZ.  Here's one with a better view of the azimuth adjustment:



Up to three plastic weights are positioned on that bar.  The arm looks a little weird and I wouldn't ordinarily be attracted, but Mosin recommended it as his favorite reasonably priced arm.  He even gave me 6 little rubber retaining rings for the plastic weights.  I think he said he owns 5 or 6 of these arms.  So, when I found one attached to a Denon 1250 with a DL-103d, I bought it.

I don't have much to add to my opinion of the Z1.  This is a very appealing cart and what it does right (which is a lot), it does very well.  So far it's not perfect which is the reason behind all the switching components.  BTW I went back to using a line stage.  Even with gain to spare it can sometimes sound kind of dead without one.  I'm not exactly sure why, but now the dynamics are amazing.
neo
 

[neobop]

When I first heard this cart I wondered if I would wind up looking to buy this off Griff, or another one.  After I sent back the X1, I fixed the Unitrac lead, set-up the 440/beryllium ML and breathed a sigh of relief .  The Z1 is different - better in every way.  I think this is mostly due to the loose stylus on the Z1.  Some tack on the body next to the plastic stylus carrier wasn't enough.  Also the joint pipe or insertion tube on the X1 is bigger and looser.  The Z1 is a little precision machine in comparison.  The SAS plastic carrier fits tightly around the body and the insertion is as tight as you'd want.....

The strengths are transient response, dynamics, detail and presentation.  The weakness is tonality.  Hard to tell Tete's Steinway from Oscar's Bosendorfer.  It's not always noticeable, but when I substitute the AT the tones and overtones with all their richness, are back.  The Z1 is better, but how much?
Some of you might remember J. Carr talking about cantilevers.  He said a short cantilever means trade-offs.  I wonder if. 

Instead of switching arms, I switched amps.  I happen to have an amazing tube amp built by Dan Fanny (AHT), years ago.



Danny was a tube god before AHT.  Underneath those diodes where the rectifier would be, is a circuit board with a chip that performs that function.  This 50 wpc amp is killer. 
I already knew about the tonal thing with the cart, but I wanted to hear the difference with the amp.  Like I said, the Z1/SAS is better in every way and that includes tone and harmonics.  Even with that shortcoming it's hard to imagine any audiofool not wanting one of these.  What it does right, it does very well and those are appealing attributes. 
neo
 

[J-Pak]

I have the Sony XL-55

and the Fidelity Research FR-7f

They are both interesting cartridges with the FR-7f/LC being the best LOMC I have yet heard...
In fact I have been conducting an exhaustive series of listening comparative tests with my LOMCs which include the ZYX Universe

The Dynavector XV-1s

and the MIT-1

As good as the FR-7f/LC is, with its holographic imaging and convincingly relaxed presentation.....I still prefer the overall sound of the Signet TK-7LCa

and surprise, surprise....

the JVC Z1/SAS which contrary to Neo's opinion on the X1.....I find excels on classical music and jazz and rock and reggae and...and....
Not that the Z1 and TK-7LCa are in any way alike....surprisingly...
But here's the thing with the Z1/SAS...
Unless you carefully set a slightly positive VTA (arm up at pivot), track at 1.25Gm but most importantly....unless you can set your phono stage to load the cartridge at 60K Ohms with 250pF of capacitance....you are not hearing this cartridge deliver what it can...
And when this cartridge delivers.....all bets are off.....

Halcro good to see you posting here! I started threads years ago on Audiogon asking about tracking of a Zyx Airy3 (an old one before the X, S coil wire designation) and the threads weren't approved. I experienced quite poor tracking with it and a R50. On some loud dynamic tracks I would hear audible mistracking. Confirmed with the HFN+ test record where the carts would buzz on even the first track of side 2.

I'm curious how your UNIverse fares in this regard?