[Halcro]

Hi Don,
That's amazing...
When did you get the TT-81?
You know I started my whole 'Nude TT' journey with the TT-81...and I still have it...
I also listened carefully to both TT-101 and TT-81 in the same stainless steel cradle I designed.....and I could not hear the difference between the two...
A really great turntable....
The Moby concert I went to at the Sydney Opera House was the first one ever where I had to stick fingers in both ears to stop the pain...
But it was still great....

[Halcro]

Oh Don,
I wonder if you might be able to help The Professor (Timeltel) obtain a Z1 body without stylus....?
I could then get him a SAS stylus for it...

Regards
Henry

[dlaloum]

I have a few Z1's....

[Halcro]

Hi David,
PM sent....

[griffithds]

Hi Halcro,

   It seems David has Tom covered with the supply of a Z-1 body.  I remember he had a bunch of those but no stylus's.  But I do have a spare that I bought off of the Japanese auction site that I could send Tom if Davids offer doesn't work out.
   In regards to the TT-81, I actually have two of them.  One in an original plinth and the other without a plinth.  The one without has been complete gone through (caps.,etc.), but it is the 100 volt model.  I do have a good variac for it.  The main one that is in use is the 120 volt model.  I bought it a couple of years ago with no information as to how old the caps. are. but it worked (and still does), flawlessly.  The arm that I use on it is the JVC 7045.  The only thing I have changed was the rubber mat.  I don't care for what rubber does to the sound so I installed the Accromat by Funk.  What a major improvement! 
  I still have a picture of that tone arm support stand (arm pod), that you made for your TT-101.  The brass one that you had painted black.  Some day I would like to make one for myself to use on the ''nude'' TT-81.  I have a spare Graham 2.2 arm that I would like to mount on that arm pod!  I think the two would be a great combination. 
  BTW:  I agree with you 100% in your feelings regarding this Z-1 with the SAS.  It hard for someone who has not heard this combo to believed just how good this thing sounds.  The dynamics is what startles me the most about it.  It reminds me of the times I spent listening to 'Master Tapes'!
Regards,

[Halcro]

Hi Don,

I have a spare Graham 2.2 arm that I would like to mount on that arm pod!  I think the two would be a great combination. 

Have you listened to the Graham with a high-compliance MM cartridge?.....because I had a Phantom II


which simply would never sound well with any MM I mounted...
It's since gone and I don't miss it...

Regards
Henry

[griffithds]

Hi Halcro,

I actually own 2 of the Graham 2.2 arms.  One of them is installed on an Extended VPI Aries T/T with all the bells and whistles.  I very much like the 2.2 and have heard that it is preferred over the Phantom.  I could not say because I have only heard the Phantom at trade shows.  The guy that I bought the 2nd 2.2 from had it listed with 2 arm wands.  It was the arm wands that I really wanted but considering what the wands were selling for (that is when you could even find one for sale), I went ahead and bought the 3 pc. set.  I now have 7 of the arm wands. All mounted with various cartridges.  It really is one hell of an arm but those damn wands are expensive.  The last one I bought was $450 used.  Bob was selling them for $800 new but the manufacturer of the Bendix connector stopped making the size that Bob was using so he no longer has them available.  I never met a cartridge I didn't like with the 2.2. Neither high compliance or low,  M/M or M/C, and is the only arm that allows my London Decca Jubilee to strut its stuff!  (grin)
Regards,
Don

[neobop]

In November on the Agon MM thread, I wrote this satirical post after a week of inactivity there:

"A fitting end to the MM/MI thread?
Nandric and Griffithds declare a winner with a "sweet little cart" rescued from obscurity.  Who's to offer another opinion with only a few examples in the known world?  Known to us, that is.

Raul has this cart, yet never declared it the best?  Just got a mention?  Maybe it isn't so great at 100K, but it looks like a 4-ch cart.

What do we make of this, a conspiracy of two who prefer MCs (at least Nandric), to have their way with the defenseless MM damsels?  Is this sweet little cart a pawn in a power struggle for MC superiority?

Since Raul isn't here I want to tell you, it's plagued with distortions.  These are insidious anomalies designed to mask reality and lull you into sweet stupor.  This is a warning.  Don't listen to the JVC Sirens.  Cover your ears like brave Ulysses or you'll be lulled to your demise.  You'll be doing crazy things and sabotaging your set-up.  Nandric wisely bent the beryllium cantilever and broke out of his stupor, but the call of the Siren was too much to resist."

Of course the post wasn't serious.  It was designed to get the thread going again.  Maybe it helped, but I no longer have that motivation.
Now, after playing with the X1 for awhile, I think the post was somewhat prophetic.  You've read about the uncanny performance of X1 with many types of popular music and with some music not so popular.  But the very thing that makes that possible also causes its shortcomings.

A stylus/cantilever responds to a groove modulation with only one response at a time.  It is a series of these responses that make up the continual cantilever vibrations which excite the generator.   If that response is emphasizing one aspect like bass/midrange dynamics, it's likely that another aspect gets shortchanged.  I think that's exactly what happens, but you probably won't hear it with Tracy Chapman, ZZ Top or even Fathead Newman or Red Rodney. 

I did manage to get the Tete records sounding half decent, but half is as far as it goes.  Harmonics and tonal complexity are subjugated, while the strengths of the X1 sound a little absurd here.   I can get many "normal" MM's sounding excellent on these and similar recordings, so I think there's a tradeoff.  I'm also guessing that's why the X1 was never cart of the month.  I must say though, on many recordings the X1 sounds great and could be one of your funnest, favoritist carts.
neo 

[griffithds]

Hi Neo,

I have 2 different phono stages.  One is set at 47K default,  while the other is 100K for M/M and 47K for M/C (I had it built this way).  I do prefer the
X-1 at 100K but I prefer all M/M/s at this 100K setting.  There is absolutely nothing to dislike a M/M at 47K but I do find that my old ears (read hearing), perceives high frequencies better when there is nothing strangling it while it is trying to pass from point A to point B. 
Personally, I am less interested in the 'why' than the actual 'end results'.  If it is 'distortions' that make this X-1 sound the way that it does, well them direct me towards more cartridges that have this type of 'distortions'.  I have cartridges that I have spend several thousands of dollars on that are taking a back seat when the choice comes to which cartridge I mount next. Actually I have come to leaving either the X-1 or the Z-1 SAS always mounted on one of my tables.  Out of 60+ cartridges that I have at my disposal, there are only 3 that can compete in this pleasure factor of cartridge ratings.  Those 3 are the Benz Micro LPS, the London Decca Jubilee, and the Einstein Barco TU 3.  That leaves a hell of a lot of high priced ''also rans''!  (grin)
Regards,
Don

[neobop]

Hi Dynamic Don,
MC's @ 47K and MM's @ 100K - make that Dynamic Don the larger than life guy.   
For awhile in the '80s, HP and the guys at TAS were loading their MC at 47K.  So naturally I had to try it with my Genesis 1000 (4 ohms).  It didn't get brighter really, it got bigger.  The stage and dynamics were larger than life, sort of like the X1 only more so, much more.  At first on a couple of records it seemed amazing, but I soon tired of it.  Eventually, so did the guys at TAS. 

Some of this is phono stage dependent.  I've read that Herron MC stage sounds great at 1M load.  The tube configuration probably has something to do with that.  With MM I think it's a different story.  Even carts designed to load at 100K (4-ch) are brighter there, and many others have a very jagged and rising response.  There are links in this thread to test reports which support that.  I've never heard a MM sound acceptable at 100K, but that's me.  A stereo is minifying a musical event and it seems to me you're changing proportions to taste.  Nothing wrong with your preference, different strokes and all that, but with the X1 it's at the expense of other parameters.

Tell you what, even though I'm pretty sure of my results, my listening time has been severely curtailed lately.  This is due to some obligations and believe it or not, the weather.  It was 2° F when I got up this morning and the heating system is dodgy.   So, if it's still okay with you I'll keep the X1 a little longer and verify results.  Besides, it sounds great on a whole lot of records.   
neo

[griffithds]

Hi Neo,

No problem with you keeping it longer.  The Z-1SAS is still waiting in the wings!
This one might tip you over into having to spend some money!  (grin)
I should have added additional information to the M/C load side of the phono stage.  It also has switches for 50/100/250 and 1000 ohms.  The default is 47K for the M/C side.  No I do not run my M/C's set their but usually use either the 50 or 100.  I do use the 1000 on one of my Benz's and also on the Blue Oasis.
Regards,
Don   (Dynamic Don)  (grin)

[dlaloum]

I believe Mr Benz recommended 47k for his MC's some years back.....

Don, what you need is a good quality graphic equaliser - set it to a traditional "smile" setting, and I 'reckon you will be good to go with the rest of your cartridge collection..... (or maybe not)

[griffithds]

Hi David,

You make me laugh!

Regards,
 

[neobop]

You've read about the uncanny performance of X1 with many types of popular music and with some music not so popular.  But the very thing that makes that possible also causes its shortcomings.

A stylus/cantilever responds to a groove modulation with only one response at a time.  It is a series of these responses that make up the continual cantilever vibrations which excite the generator.   If that response is emphasizing one aspect like bass/midrange dynamics, it's likely that another aspect gets shortchanged.  I think that's exactly what happens, but you probably won't hear it with Tracy Chapman, ZZ Top or even Fathead Newman or Red Rodney. 

I did manage to get the Tete records sounding half decent, but half is as far as it goes.  Harmonics and tonal complexity are subjugated, while the strengths of the X1 sound a little absurd here.   I can get many "normal" MM's sounding excellent on these and similar recordings, so I think there's a tradeoff.  I'm also guessing that's why the X1 was never cart of the month.  I must say though, on many recordings the X1 sounds great and could be one of your funnest, favoritist carts.
neo

The situation hasn't changed since this post.  When you alter the dynamic (tonal) relationships within a recording, that change extends even to the sound of an individual instrument.  This became apparent on some acoustic jazz and classical music. 
The strengths of this cart has been mentioned and that's not diminished, but there's no free ride.  You often have to give up something to get something else, and that's the case here.  Rock on.
neo

[neobop]

Please don't think my last post was condescending.  I listen to rock sometimes.

There's an interesting thread on Agon about MC loading:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1424065925&&&/Cartridge-impedance-loading-question

Poster Lewm got a vintage Ortofon MC2000 cart.  This is the predecessor to the MC3000 which Jonathan Carr mentioned as a memorable coreless model.
Output is 0.05mV !!  Better have some gain.

Others on that coreless list are the Sony XL-88 and Yamaha MC-1000, Fidelity Research FR-7, JVC L-1000, Benz Micro Ruby, Denon DL-1000A, Hiphonic MC-D15, Nagaoka/Jeweltone JT RII and JTR3.  The Sony XL-55 and the MC-9 are also coreless I believe.  The DL-S1 is coreless, and I think the 304 as well.

There's another thread about the ART9, the higher output version of the ART7. 
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1424885270&&&/Audio-Technica-AT-ART9-phono-cartridge
neo

 

[griffithds]

Hi Neo,

Received the package today.  All is well!  (grin)
Happy that you enjoyed your time with it.   

Best regards,
Don

[Halcro]

Please don't think my last post was condescending.  I listen to rock sometimes.

There's an interesting thread on Agon about MC loading:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1424065925&&&/Cartridge-impedance-loading-question

Poster Lewm got a vintage Ortofon MC2000 cart.  This is the predecessor to the MC3000 which Jonathan Carr mentioned as a memorable coreless model.
Output is 0.05mV !!  Better have some gain.

Others on that coreless list are the Sony XL-88 and Yamaha MC-1000, Fidelity Research FR-7, JVC L-1000, Benz Micro Ruby, Denon DL-1000A, Hiphonic MC-D15, Nagaoka/Jeweltone JT RII and JTR3.  The Sony XL-55 and the MC-9 are also coreless I believe.  The DL-S1 is coreless, and I think the 304 as well.

There's another thread about the ART9, the higher output version of the ART7. 
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1424885270&&&/Audio-Technica-AT-ART9-phono-cartridge
neo

I have the Sony XL-55

and the Fidelity Research FR-7f


They are both interesting cartridges with the FR-7f/LC being the best LOMC I have yet heard...
In fact I have been conducting an exhaustive series of listening comparative tests with my LOMCs which include the ZYX Universe


The Dynavector XV-1s


and the MIT-1



As good as the FR-7f/LC is, with its holographic imaging and convincingly relaxed presentation.....I still prefer the overall sound of the Signet TK-7LCa


and surprise, surprise....


the JVC Z1/SAS which contrary to Neo's opinion on the X1.....I find excels on classical music and jazz and rock and reggae and...and....
Not that the Z1 and TK-7LCa are in any way alike....surprisingly...
But here's the thing with the Z1/SAS...
Unless you carefully set a slightly positive VTA (arm up at pivot), track at 1.25Gm but most importantly....unless you can set your phono stage to load the cartridge at 60K Ohms with 250pF of capacitance....you are not hearing this cartridge deliver what it can...
And when this cartridge delivers.....all bets are off.....

[griffithds]

Way to go Halcro!
I run mine at 100K and load with only what the cables provide !

[Halcro]

Way to go Halcro!
I run mine at 100K and load with only what the cables provide !

Hi Griff....
That probably gives a fairly similar loading to that which I run...

[neobop]

Halcro,
Great photos, thanks for taking the trouble.  They add a kind of tangible reality to all the model numbers.

There was an interesting comment on that ART9 Agon thread, something to the affect that ART7 has a purity that's better suited to classical, and the higher output ART9 is more enjoyable for more popular fare.  The ART9 was said to have more midbass and dynamics. 
One might wonder about the dynamics part given the low output and possible system limitations, but I found that comment interesting and similar to my feelings about the stock X1. 

To reiterate, there's little doubt that X1 has greater than "normal" dynamics, especially in the bass and lower midrange.  This changed the micro dynamics and harmonic relationships.  This was only evident on a few familiar and well recorded acoustic piano and trio records.  When it went wrong, it was pretty bad and decidedly second rate.  Loading to a higher value would tend to make it worse, theoretically increasing dynamics.  There was improvement when I secured the stylus assembly.  VTA was slightly positive.  VTF was 1.7g.

Of course there is no SAS for the X1.  I wonder if a more rigid boron cantilever/microridge fixes this on the Z1? 
I think I should also mention once again, most things seemed better not worse, and this was a fascinating and enjoyable experience. 
Unfortunately, due to circumstances I have to hold off for awhile checking out the Z1.  It shouldn't be too long. 
neo