Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond

Grbluen · « **Reply #360 on:** 6 Oct 2013, 04:37 pm »

Neo,
It's funny, but that Maestro is how I found you and this thread. I was careless one day and allowed the tonearm to come into contact with the spindle clamp on my Scout. This resulted in the the cantilever becoming twisted within the grip. After many months, and with the help of this thread, I finally worked up the courage to attempt to straighten myself. After re-aligning the cantilever, it has been in the box ever since. At the time I wasn't aware of the relationship with Audio Technica, and was somewhat "put-off" with Clearaudio being unwilling to sell me a replacement stylus. I'm into the LS500 hook, line, and sinker at this point. I came here for the educational opportunity, so I need to see this one thru. There really is only one upgrade for this being the 150Mlx, after that, I plan to compare the Frankencart to the others. One note: I'm actually happier with the Frankencart than I have been with the others that I've owned. Those carts include: Benz Ace, ZYX R100,Clearaudio Maestro, the Signets, and the Ortofons. The Nagaoka MP-50, probably edges the LS500 at this point. I've also a 20x2l which I've yet to give a listen.

dlaloum · « **Reply #361 on:** 6 Oct 2013, 06:29 pm »

Given your cart collection my suggestion of a different flavour to try would be a DV Karat...

The other DV's are "ordinary", whereas the karat is its own category...

Grbluen · « **Reply #362 on:** 6 Oct 2013, 06:36 pm »

That is the plan. I'd like to sell the 20x2l, if I can do so without losing too much money.
I'm terribly curious about the Karat, and wish that I'd invested the extra few dollars on that one.
I was probably concerned about other Scout users reporting about problems with the spindle clamp.
That will probably be my next new cartridge.

a.wayne · « **Reply #363 on:** 6 Oct 2013, 10:47 pm »

How is the sound of the clearaudio concept v2 or performer V2 MM Cartridge vs the rest , are they competitive ...?

Grbluen · « **Reply #364 on:** 7 Oct 2013, 12:09 am »

I don't have any experience with the newer Clearaudio carts.
Don grb

neobop · « **Reply #365 on:** 7 Oct 2013, 11:00 am »

Quote from: a.wayne on 6 Oct 2013, 10:47 pm

How is the sound of the clearaudio concept v2 or performer V2 MM Cartridge vs the rest , are they competitive ...?

You mean, is the SQ competitive?
All the CA MM carts share the same generator. The Concept and Performer have the same specs as all the original MMs. The V2 Maestro and Virtuoso have stronger magnets for a higher output, but are otherwise the same motor. If you're looking at a new one, all but Maestro would benefit from a stylus upgrade. If you could find a used one with a good motor you'll make out better and probably more than pay for the stylus upgrade. All but the body is the same.

The 15 cu compliance of these is for a med/high mass arm. For a low mass arm you could substitute a different AT stylus. If you mean competitive value, that's a tough question and depends on your preference. The Performer is $400. At that price point you'd have some other options, some of which might be better depending on what you're looking for. Any frame of reference? What arm are you using?
neo

a.wayne · « **Reply #366 on:** 7 Oct 2013, 12:18 pm »

Low to med mass arm (jelco) cartridges used Denon (dl110) grado ,AT440mla, at the Clearaudio price point looking at picking up a Denon 301 ...

neobop · « **Reply #367 on:** 7 Oct 2013, 02:35 pm »

All the Jelco arms I know of are high mass. Maybe you have one with fluid damping which will work better with higher compliance carts?

I never owned a 301, but I am familiar with the upscale Denons and the presentation is a little different. The Denon will give a very musical, relaxed sound. Detail will be pretty good, but the appeal IMO is in the relaxed presentation. Once you have them dialed in, they sound like music. Listenability is high. I'm guessing that the 301 will have more detail and information than a 103, but not quite the finesse of a DL-S1.

Most MMs are more immediate. Where a coil tends to have a more distant soundstage type sound, MMs are right there. At least that how it usually sounds to me, or the best I can describe it. If you had the 440 on the Jelco, it might not have been the best match. That one tends toward brightness, but it depends on your system and loading. With AT carts (including CA) capacitance must be kept low, < 200pF total. I used to load my 440 at 32K for better balance, but that depends on the rest of the stuff.
Anyway, without arm matching considerations the AT-100E ($80) has the same motor as the 150MLX. Put a 150 stylus on there and you have a lighter 150 which is easier to match compliance to mass.

The cu of the CA carts is a better match to Jelco arms. Considering the stock stylus I can't say a new Concept or Performer looks like a great value. Check out this one:
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cartridges-clearaudio-aurum-beta-s-high-output-mm-cartridge-2013-09-26-analog-95076

It doesn't have the wood top, but I'd get that in a heartbeat. If it's a little too pricey you could make an offer. This is for detail/resolution - accurately hearing what's on the record. Relaxed or otherwise, a more neutral and defined presentation.
neo

Grbluen · « **Reply #368 on:** 13 Oct 2013, 06:51 pm »

Ok, I couldn't resist. I admit it, I'm weak! The Beryllium cantilever is on its way.
There was an auction for a ATN15SS, and I won (lost?). At any rate the price of admission was less than the 150Mlx. Whether I can take advantage of the cantilever or not remains to be seen.
Don grb

neobop · « **Reply #369 on:** 14 Oct 2013, 01:10 am »

Good luck with the stylus. At least it doesn't require a transplant for your LS500.

Let us know how it works out.
neo

Grbluen · « **Reply #370 on:** 17 Oct 2013, 10:25 pm »

The new stylus just arrived. No Beryllium, just ordinary Aluminum. As far as I'm concerned, any seller on Ebay that completely misrepresents an item, should be banned. End of story.

neobop · « **Reply #371 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 12:11 am »

That's a shame.
I no longer use epay since my ex ran up thousands and I didn't pay the bill, but I was under the impression that you could open up a dispute and get your money back?
Seems that everyone is out of the 20SS except Gear. Now they want $300 for it. They have an ATN20S - aluminum/shibata for $250. That's crazy.
For $250 you could send it to Soundsmith and get a ruby/LC.
neo

Grbluen · « **Reply #372 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 12:20 am »

Quote from: neobop on 18 Oct 2013, 12:11 am

That's a shame.
I no longer use epay since my ex ran up thousands and I didn't pay the bill, but I was under the impression that you could open up a dispute and get your money back?
Seems that everyone is out of the 20SS except Gear. Now they want $300 for it. They have an ATN20S - aluminum/shibata for $250. That's crazy.
For $250 you could send it to Soundsmith and get a ruby/LC.
neo

The seller has graciously offered a full refund. I really appreciate sellers that try to make things right!

Grbluen · « **Reply #373 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 12:34 am »

Ok Neo,
I've listened to your advice and I've reinstalled the Maestro. The difference between the Maestro and LS500 is smaller than you might imagine. Their character is almost identical. When listening to the LS500, it's almost as if it is a slightly sloppier version of the Maestro. I have to believe the difference is due to the stylus/cantilever. I can't describe the stylus on the Maestro (mostly because it's too miniscule). The stylus on the Maestro is truly one of the finest I've tried to inspect!

Don grb

dlaloum · « **Reply #374 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 01:28 am »

Hi Don,

do you have another Boron cantilever to compare it to, or is that your only one?

Jut curious to know whether it is a typical Boron cantilever (which are indeed very fine) - or something even slimmer...

Grbluen · « **Reply #375 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 08:32 am »

Hi David,

The cantilever on the Maestro is about the same diameter as those found on the Benz Ace. The Nagaoka MP-50 cantilever is also about the same diameter, although a bit shorter.

Don grb

dlaloum · « **Reply #376 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 09:50 am »

OK that would make it about the same as the SAS, my Empire MC1 etc...

yeah those are nice fine styli!

neobop · « **Reply #377 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 12:29 pm »

I suspect the stylus on the Maestro is an AT boron/ML, maybe w/o the gold dust on the cantilever like the 150MLX, and with cu of 15.

All the other CA MM styli are conspicuously AT and I doubt if Maestro is different. Check any AT ML under small magnification (30X). You can barely see it.

I can't say this from experience with an orig Maestro stylus, I've never seen one, but really?

I'm also skeptical about the high inductance/resistance LS500 sounding almost identical. Please don't take this as a criticism of your system or powers of discernment, but I think that due to some unknown system factor the differences are being masked.

Maybe someone has inspected a Maestro stylus under high power and can comment further. I always assumed it was a microridge type from Namiki, like most other micros. The world is getting smaller in that respect. Is Gyger still around?
Any further illumination on this or the world of micro styli, is welcome.
neo

dlaloum · « **Reply #378 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 01:00 pm »

My recollection is that gyger shut up shop a couple of years back... Ortofon said something about having stocked up on " replicants", but replaced the fg on their totl mm with a shibata... (it coincided with the shift from 5xo series to 2M )

Who makes the DV pathfinder needle?

AT and Jico are both Namiki customers...

Grbluen · « **Reply #379 on:** 18 Oct 2013, 01:55 pm »

Neo,
Please don't apologize for any statements which may be helpful in my education. I've examined the Maestro stylus under 200x, and it doesn't resemble anything that I've seen before. I'll have to double check, but I feel safe in saying that it's not the same as the 440mla. You are absolutely correct when you say that I do not possess the same level of discernment as you and the others.I don't have a "dog in this fight". I'm only curious as to why AT spec'd this cartridge the way they did. I'm not trying to sell you anything. As far inductance is concerned, I seem to remember there were a couple out units in the list which stood out. I believe the AT13Ea being one.I've been meaning to ask, if it's possible that it's not only the inductance that matters, but how closely the inductance and resistance match. It seems that some of your highly thought of carts shared this trait. Regardless, don't ever hesitate to question me or my powers. I'm here to learn, not to teach.

Don grb