MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?

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planet10

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #20 on: 2 Dec 2010, 06:21 am »
in what looks like a parts express cabinet for 4k a pair.

When i 1st saw thise some time ago i thot the same thing. A bit of research shows that they are not the same dimensions.

The curved PE cabinets are way better than the monkey coffin ones, good value for the money, but they are merely OK in my estimation. The 6 ply MDF play on the curved sides works pretty well, but it is very low grade MDF, and has fairly high energy storage. It is also very suseptable to dramatic chips.

Not nearly the downward dynamic range of a well built quality multiply cabinet... you pays for what you get.

If you look at the economics of what it costs to put a speaker into a bricks & mortar hifi store, then $4k is a beleivable price. The direct from manufacturer model (made feasible by the internet) strips at least a dealer margin off the end user price -- i'm a firm believer in this model, and Rick is one of the 1st to make a success of it. I find that almost any speaker you find in a retail shop to be expensive.

dave

planet10

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #21 on: 2 Dec 2010, 06:29 am »
I have seen some Corian cabinets but never used the material myself.

We've played with corian. Suitable for accents, but not really for building boxes with.

dave

Guy 13

Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #22 on: 2 Dec 2010, 02:44 pm »
http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143:von-schweikert-audio-unifield-1-loudspeakers&catid=55:full-length-reviews&Itemid=4

Von Schweikert's selling a bookshelf with the same driver as the MF7 in what looks like a parts express cabinet for 4k a pair. Wow, just wow.
Hi KIP and all Audio Circle members.
I would not be surprised that some hi end speaker manufacturers would buy their enclosures from China or someone else and put their name on it and ask you for an extra few thousand dollars, after all, they have the right to get the extra money to pay for their BMW or Mercedes. No, I am not jalous, because I prefer to buy a Ford which is made in USA.
Only my opinion, again, for what it's woth.
Guy 13

BobRex

Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #23 on: 2 Dec 2010, 03:05 pm »

A cabinet can be a crucial component to the sound of a loudspeaker.  Just curious how the Von Schweikert 2.5" thick cabinet consisting of "resin impregnated MDF bonded to a middle liner of artificial stone laminated to hard felt" is being compared to a Parts Express cabinet?
 
Steve

Just out of curiosity, isn't all MDF "resin impregnated"?  Resin = glue, how else would you make the board?

Reminds me of the old Polk literature describing a "fluid coupled" midrange.  The fluid was air.

srb

Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #24 on: 2 Dec 2010, 03:26 pm »
Just out of curiosity, isn't all MDF "resin impregnated"?  Resin = glue, how else would you make the board?

Yes it is.  I assumed that if the curved side construction was facilitated by cutting slits into the MDF, that "resin impregnated" in this context meant that additional resin was poured over the interior surfaces to fill the voids.  Maybe it wasn't.
 
Of course, a curved cabinet could also be fashioned out of steam bent "alternating opposing grain multi-layer laminated" plywood.
 
Steve
« Last Edit: 2 Dec 2010, 05:24 pm by srb »

rklein

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #25 on: 2 Dec 2010, 03:38 pm »
All MDF may be resin impregnated.  However, all MDF is not the same quality.  I found this out when building my Selah TRT's.  I looked at the MDF that Lowes and HD had and it was OK but I had to go through pieces to find some that weren't chipped.  In talking with a professional woodworking/cabinet guy(who's opinion I very much trust) he stated that most of the pros buy their MDF from a place called Cleveland Plywood(NE Ohio).  The reason being is that the MDF that Lowes and HD get in are manufactured by China and in this case the QC is dismal.  Cleveland Plywood had both MDF and HDF(High Density Fiberboard) both of which was made in Canada.  Guys, there was no comparison in the quality.

Randy

SCooper

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #26 on: 2 Dec 2010, 05:21 pm »
As I remember Danny from GR Research had a mod that was based around a Best Buy insignia speaker similar to this.  Used wood putty to fill the saw kerfs inside and offered a new xover.
Stu

Rick Craig

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #27 on: 2 Dec 2010, 05:58 pm »
Talking about repackaging, rebadging, repeating and ripping off.  Not to discount 'research' costs associated with any product, but VK should be embarrassed at attempting to market things that should not remotely come close to 4K.  No wonder why many people are not into the b-ll that comes with high end stuff...  Of course, more conscious audiophiles should not fall into such obvious marking ploy.  Hopefully VK does not fall into the same trap as Mark Levinson's Red Rose brand.

Actually it depends on how the crossover is designed so I'm not so sure you can call if a copy. There are a few different companies using the same driver. The bottom line is how it performs for the $ compared to the MF7 and the other versions on the market.

planet10

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #28 on: 2 Dec 2010, 06:36 pm »
Yes it is.  I assumed that if the curved side construction was facilitated by cutting slits into the MDF, that "resin impregnated"

Don't know about the VS, but the PE cabinet is 6 layers of 1/8" MDF laminated around a form to get the shape, making a "plywood. This is a much better construction than kerfing the panel to bend it.

dave

Rick Craig

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #29 on: 2 Dec 2010, 06:57 pm »
$4000 for those?  Seriously? 

Here's the woofer btw, take 30% off for Seas dealer price.  https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1615

I've used those drivers in the past btw, and they're average at best.  The tweeter measures like a roller coaster and needs multiple notches if you're going for anything resembling a flat response ... the woofer part is decent, same as any Seas Prestige line.

For 4 g's I'd at least expect the Mag cone version.  https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8494

Von Schweikert jumped the shark on this one.

The tweeter's response is from reflections off the cone - much like a waveguide or horn. Moving the measurement mic will show the diffraction changes at different angles so the key is what the overall composite response is. Multiple notches are not the answer. The whole point here is having even coverage both vertically and horizontally.

Vapor Audio

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #30 on: 2 Dec 2010, 07:10 pm »
The tweeter's response is from reflections off the cone - much like a waveguide or horn. Moving the measurement mic will show the diffraction changes at different angles so the key is what the overall composite response is. Multiple notches are not the answer. The whole point here is having even coverage both vertically and horizontally.

I've used plenty of waveguides loaded with dome tweeters, none produce the FR problems of the Seas co-axial.  I don't know if you've personally worked with that driver or if you know, but the tweeter assembly is removable ... it tests nearly as poorly when placed on a flat baffle as it does in the center of the woofer. 

You are right, multiple notches aren't the answer ... choosing a better driver is. 

Rick Craig

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #31 on: 2 Dec 2010, 08:29 pm »
I've used plenty of waveguides loaded with dome tweeters, none produce the FR problems of the Seas co-axial.  I don't know if you've personally worked with that driver or if you know, but the tweeter assembly is removable ... it tests nearly as poorly when placed on a flat baffle as it does in the center of the woofer. 

You are right, multiple notches aren't the answer ... choosing a better driver is.

Yes, more problems with horns and peaks/dips; however, a waveguide still rolls off the top octave. Here's the on-axis vs. off-axis (30 degrees horizontal) of the MF7:



At 30 degrees horizontally you can see that the response fits a pretty tight window and has good extension. The difference in the on-axis and off-axis indicates diffraction (either the cabinet and /or woofer cone).

Are there better drivers available? Yes, but for certain applications the MF7 is a good alternative. For a center channel it has better coverage compared to a standard horizontal MTM when there's a limit on shelf height. The L/C/R front three channels can be exactly the same and offer better vertical coverage if placement height is limited (such as a wall unit, etc).

chrismercurio

Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #32 on: 3 Dec 2010, 06:25 pm »
For the money, it is a tough driver to beat (in the MF7 implementation anyway) and while I'm not saying that it is world beating by any stretch of the imagination, it offers good dispersion characteristics and overall "good sound". They also sound nice with okay electronics and much better with great electronics. The Seas TPX based cones, of which they used to offer many including Excel models, have a nice tonal balance and tend to be forgiving of poor electronics and programming material. I took my MF7's apart recently to check them physically for damage after a mishap and thought hard about upgrading the crossovers because I like them so much.

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #33 on: 7 Dec 2010, 03:57 pm »
Hi KIP and all Audio Circle members.
I would not be surprised that some hi end speaker manufacturers would buy their enclosures from China or someone else and put their name on it and ask you for an extra few thousand dollars, after all, they have the right to get the extra money to pay for their BMW or Mercedes. No, I am not jalous, because I prefer to buy a Ford which is made in USA.
Only my opinion, again, for what it's woth.
Guy 13

I think a very high percentage of speaker cabintes are now sourced from China, and in fact many very well known mfrs have the entire speaker manufactured in a Chinese facility.

Jeff K

Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #34 on: 16 Dec 2010, 12:19 am »
Quote
The review is being edited now for the December 15th online publication.

Not today.   :cry:


Rick Craig

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Re: MF7 Owners, These Look Familiar?
« Reply #35 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:26 pm »
Not today.   :cry:

Just received a note from the editor - January 1 is the date. Seems they wanted to save the best for the beginning of the new year.  :thumb: