World Championship Boxing

dB Cooper · « **Reply #100 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 01:47 am »

I saw it on dvr yesterday. WHOAAAAAAAAAAH

I'll wait until more people see it; even though the outcome is known, there were some surprises along the way

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #101 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 04:20 am »

Saw the fight on HBO tonite. Wow. That was a fight! If Manny wants to fight again the public would welcome a rematch. I wouldn't blame him if he didn't even tho he appeared to be in control. I expect we'll know something pretty soon, don't you? Doniare looks like a super star in the making. Very compact puncher to be so lanky looking.

mjosef · « **Reply #102 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 06:39 am »

Just saw the knockout...it was brutal, like the commentators it reminded me of Sergio Martinez ko of Paul Williams, and also Roy Jones knockouts by the hands of Tarver and Johnson. Roy had the most rapid decline I ever saw of a top fighter, he was never the same after Tarver knocked him out cold.
I feel Manny might be moving along the same path should he continue in the ring. He has been in a lot of wars. And even though he is way younger than Marquez, he looked the more 'fragile' of the two.
Marquez looked strong, took some good power shots from Manny.

vortrex · « **Reply #103 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 05:59 pm »

interesting comments last night on JJM and drug testing in general...

nobody watched the Khan fight? he looked incredible.

mjosef · « **Reply #104 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 06:02 pm »

It wasn't on HBO...if it wasn't on HBO...musta been plain regular teevee.

vortrex · « **Reply #105 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 06:07 pm »

Showtime. Angulo vs Silva on the under card was an all out slug fest.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #106 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 07:01 pm »

Quote from: mjosef on 16 Dec 2012, 06:39 am

Just saw the knockout...it was brutal, like the commentators it reminded me of Sergio Martinez ko of Paul Williams, and also Roy Jones knockouts by the hands of Tarver and Johnson. Roy had the most rapid decline I ever saw of a top fighter, he was never the same after Tarver knocked him out cold.
I feel Manny might be moving along the same path should he continue in the ring. He has been in a lot of wars. And even though he is way younger than Marquez, he looked the more 'fragile' of the two.
Marquez looked strong, took some good power shots from Manny.

.Marquez DID look strong, alright, and very determined. He looked very tuned up for Manny.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #107 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 11:24 pm »

Quote from: vortrex on 16 Dec 2012, 05:59 pm

interesting comments last night on JJM and drug testing in general...

nobody watched the Khan fight? he looked incredible.

Are you referring to the same rumors I've heard: that Marquez tested positive for some PED or other?? That's all boxing needs. Sigh....

JackD201 · « **Reply #108 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 08:24 am »

Read in the papers that JMM is all clear.

jackman · « **Reply #109 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 02:13 pm »

Anytime a guy goes from skinny with low definition to very muscular and ripped, people get suspicious. The same can be said of Manny. When he gained a lot if muscle and became a larger man, people started to speculate as to how this was possible. I am a fan of JMM and Manny but have to admit that it's rare for guys in their 30's to put on lots of lean muscle and maintain punching power several weight classes up the chain.

Lastly, I watched the fight several times and was amazed at JMM's power and Manny's lack of power in this fight. Manny was winning and he landed several big shots, especially in the fifth round but, outside of a broken nose and bloody face, the punches appeared to done no real damage to JMM. On the other hand, Marquez's punches seemed to really hurt Manny. Not just the big one, several right hands reall stung Manny.

Until he got hit by the overhand right, Manny was moving his feet well, moving his head and throwing good combinations. He looked pretty good prior to the knockout but he didn't have an answer to that big right hand of Marquez. Also, the right was a counter for a jab Manny threw, and missed. It was a looping punch and be didn't pick it up.

Thee guys are amazing technicians in the ring. A Pacquaio/Marquez fight is a work of brutal art. Even though I've stated otherwise, I'll watch these guys any time they want to fight. This is boxing at a very high level, and two masters at work. It's a shame someone has to lose.

vortrex · « **Reply #110 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 05:33 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 16 Dec 2012, 11:24 pm

Are you referring to the same rumors I've heard: that Marquez tested positive for some PED or other?? That's all boxing needs. Sigh....

Lampley again brought up the point of JJM's coach and his history. The way it was mentioned sure sounded like they were casting some doubt on the win as being legitimate. They then talked about Donaire and how he is the only pro boxer who has voluntarily agreed to 24x7x365 drug testing, whether he is in training or not. It was said to be the most sophisticated testing available today. Donaire was awarded fighter of the year and his views on testing was a major part of that. They then gave Dr. Margaret Goodman the person of the year award for her stance on PED's. They said she made a lot of enemies in LV and was driven out of her position. She then founded her own testing organization and the first two boxers who signed up for her testing were both postitive (Peterson and Berto). Lampley also did mention something about test results sometimes being swept under the rug in LV.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #111 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 01:08 am »

Best wishes to Larry Merchant, calling his last fight card this past Saturday. It's gonna be weird listening to HBO boxing without him.

By the way, in the famous photo of Ali standing over Sonny Liston, Merchant is visible in the background.

django11 · « **Reply #112 on:** 23 Dec 2012, 08:28 pm »

Just saw the Donaire fight and wasn't surprised by the outcome. Darchinyan stopped Arce as well. Donaire is definitely the real deal but I will be happy to see him in there with someone his size when he moves up to 126. Darchinyan was a freakin monster up to 115 but when he moved to 118 he was a powder puff...

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #113 on:** 23 Dec 2012, 10:37 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 17 Dec 2012, 02:13 pm

Anytime a guy goes from skinny with low definition to very muscular and ripped, people get suspicious. The same can be said of Manny. When he gained a lot if muscle and became a larger man, people started to speculate as to how this was possible. I am a fan of JMM and Manny but have to admit that it's rare for guys in their 30's to put on lots of lean muscle and maintain punching power several weight classes up the chain.

Lastly, I watched the fight several times and was amazed at JMM's power and Manny's lack of power in this fight. Manny was winning and he landed several big shots, especially in the fifth round but, outside of a broken nose and bloody face, the punches appeared to done no real damage to JMM. On the other hand, Marquez's punches seemed to really hurt Manny. Not just the big one, several right hands reall stung Manny.

Until he got hit by the overhand right, Manny was moving his feet well, moving his head and throwing good combinations. He looked pretty good prior to the knockout but he didn't have an answer to that big right hand of Marquez. Also, the right was a counter for a jab Manny threw, and missed. It was a looping punch and be didn't pick it up.

Thee guys are amazing technicians in the ring. A Pacquaio/Marquez fight is a work of brutal art. Even though I've stated otherwise, I'll watch these guys any time they want to fight. This is boxing at a very high level, and two masters at work. It's a shame someone has to lose.

The Pacman is probably thinkin he was winning and that he could win in another contest. He just needs to take whatever it is that Marquez is taking. I imagine this has occurred to him. His punches only seemed to hurt Marquez a couple of times. So, does Manny want a rematch? I would think he does. But, Marquez has the cards, right?

django11 · « **Reply #114 on:** 24 Dec 2012, 04:01 am »

Marquez is a tough dude. He has been knocked down a few times but never really hurt.

It is really unfortunate that we are at a point that when an athlete puts on muscle the whispering about doping starts. The same happened to Pacquiao. He sued Mayweather over insinuations of doping....

And I thought putting on muscle slows guys down? Marquez seemed much slower when he moved up in weight and fought Mayweather without all the muscle.

Anyway, I don't find it impossible for a professional athlete, who kept his weight artificially low, to put weight on in the form of muscle especially with world class professional help.

I can't say for sure one way or the other though. Here is a picture of him before the fight. From the front he doesn't look anything special. He seems to have bulked up his shoulders and back...

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #115 on:** 24 Dec 2012, 04:14 am »

Quote from: django11 on 24 Dec 2012, 04:01 am

Marquez is a tough dude. He has been knocked down a few times but never really hurt.

It is really unfortunate that we are at a point that when an athlete puts on muscle the whispering about doping starts. The same happened to Pacquiao. He sued Mayweather over insinuations of doping....

And I thought putting on muscle slows guys down? Marquez seemed much slower when he moved up in weight and fought Mayweather without all the muscle.

Anyway, I don't find it impossible for a professional athlete, who kept his weight artificially low, to put weight on in the form of muscle especially with world class professional help.

I can't say for sure one way or the other though. Here is a picture of him before the fight. From the front he doesn't look anything special. He seems to have bulked up his shoulders and back...

Dj, both fighters can and may have taken steroids or whatever, I dunno. If it sounds like I am attributing the Marquez victory to that, I am not. I think he and his crew had studied Pacman's movements and had this counterpunch in mind all along. Pacman likes to throw double jabs and move forward to deliver his left because he thinks an opponent will be reacting to the jabs and not doing anything offensely. This time, he didn't modify his angle and was there for the shot. Marquez seized the opportunity.

jackman · « **Reply #116 on:** 24 Dec 2012, 05:38 pm »

I am a Marquez fan and have stated he deserved the victory. That was a brutal knockout. Also, both fighters have put on lots of muscle over the past five years of so. Look at pictures from their early fights. They were little guys who wanted to move up to higher weight classes to make more money.

I have a friend who has a masters degree in nutrition. He's also completed two Iron Man competitions and has been a professional trainer for pro racers. I've discussed this topic with him, specifically Manny and JMM's physical transformations and he just laughed. It's not rare to put on some muscle but these guys are pro athletes and they each put on at least twenty five or thirty pounds if muscle. JMM was able to add quite a bit of muscle in his 30's. My personal guess is that they both juiced to put on the muscle. I strongly suspect PED's use is very common in the boxing world.

JMM won the fight and deserved the victory. He will go down as one of the all time greats. You will never hear Manny's camp accuse JMM of PED use because they don't want to hear the same accusations coming their way.

django11 · « **Reply #117 on:** 24 Dec 2012, 08:30 pm »

I understand what you are saying and must admit I have a doubt also. But here is a picture from the third fight weigh in where Marquez weighed in at 142 as opposed to 143 in the fourth fight. Marquez is 5 foot 7 inches. So he didn't put on 25 or 30 pounds of muscle in a short period of time. At most we are talking about 16 pounds over a 6 year period. Marquez as been fighting at at least 135 since 2008 so the weight gain has been gradual.

Here is a picture from the Casamayor fight in 2008 when he weighed in at 135. To 142 we are only talking about 7 lbs.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #118 on:** 27 Dec 2012, 08:02 pm »

Correction. Manny doesn't throw double jabs, he likes to throw his left just after his jab. Marquez and company exploited that to perfection. Ten seconds or so before the knock-out, he also tried this shot just missing and Manny was not the wiser for it.

django11 · « **Reply #119 on:** 17 Jan 2013, 01:21 pm »

GGG on HBO saturday.