Step-up transformer or MM cartridge?

smccull · « **on:** 9 Mar 2004, 06:10 pm »

First time poster here looking for a little advice...

I just picked up a used Transendence 7SLR and LOVE it! It's fast, transparent and very neutral to the source. Almost like it's not there at all. Great job Frank!

My question is this. I have a Music Hall MMF7 with MC cartridge. I want to take full advantage of the phono stage in the pre and am wondering if I should buy an inexpensive step-up transformer or if I should replace the cartridge in my MMF7. Any suggestions on specific models would be helpful too. I'd like to spend less than $300 if possible.

Thanks for you help!

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 06:21 pm »

What cartridge do you have? MC cartridges have a wide variety of output levels. Many modern MC carts have high output like MM carts. I am assuming you tried it out and it wasn't enough gain. I would either look to used listings for a good step up transformer or maybe looking at something like the Dynavector 10x4 high output MC which will work in that setup.

smccull · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 07:02 pm »

The MMF7 comes with a high output Goldring Eroica cartridge and I still don't have enough gain. I have to crank the T7 to 3 o'clock before I get decent output and I just don't have the dynamics and extension I had with an external phono pre (Monolithic PS1, which I sold in anticipation of the T7).

Any suggestions on a quality budget transformer?

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 07:08 pm »

Something sounds really wrong. It sounds like you're plugging into a higher level input jack. Does the T7 have a hi/lo switch for that input? Or, does the phono section expect you to have a preamp? That would be odd and not probable. Do you have the tape loop activated?

You may want to call Frank and have him walk you through a few troubleshooting tips.

-C

WEEZ · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 07:12 pm »

Seems like I've read of a similar dilemma on another thread- even had output problems with a 4.0mv Grado. Does seem strange- maybe a call to AVA could shed some light on it for you. It would be helpful if any response could be posted here- for every vinyl lovers benefit.

Good luck...

JoshK · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 07:38 pm »

Yeah you should have zero problems with the Goldring. Something seems awry. MM carts really aren't going to be any higher output, not significantly anyway.

Carlman · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 07:52 pm »

After a little viewing of Frank's site, I found this quote:
"The T7 phono section works great with any normal output phono cartridge, head amp, or moving coil step-up transformer. Installed in the Special location replacing one set of line level inputs."

I've never had to to turn a preamp to 3 o'clock to begin to get good sound... plus, the limited dynamics sound exactly like a product of plugging into a high-level input.

Either your player's plugged in the wrong hole or a button or switch is pressed that shouldn't be.... or the phono stage itself is faulty *which I doubt*

smccull · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 08:22 pm »

I have my TT plugged into the "Special" RCA. Havent' bothered to open the unit to make sure that's where the phono stage is connected, but you gotta assume it is.

I also sent an email to AVA. Will see what they suggest.

PeteG · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 09:37 pm »

I'm using a AVA T7 w/phono and have no problems with my Grado (4.0mv) I get good volume at 9:00 on the T7. It looks like the Goldring Eroica H is 2.5mv so as everyone has said you may have a problem
with the phono stage, have you checked the 12AX7 tubes. The T7 has
a fixed gain of what I believe is 40dB.

JoshK · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 10:13 pm »

Just the obvious check, you did pay for the optional phono correct? The standard T7slr doesn't come with phono, phono was an option.

orthobiz · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 10:42 pm »

Josh K took the words out of my mouth. As best I can tell, from reading the lit with my T7ECR, if you have the phono section installed, you'll have 4 tubes instead of 2. So, pop the top and look!

I have the phono and with the case intact I can only see 2 tubes...

biz

WEEZ · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 12:58 am »

Yeah- it would be difficult to play records without the phono-amp

Bosh · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 04:05 am »

I resemble the reference to the guy who is having similar trouble "with a high output Grado" thru the T6 phono-only amp.

In fact I recently got my T6 phono back from Frank, having sent it in for the power supply upgrade.

"Audiophiles always think they hear an improvement in the bass when they improve their systems. " Art Dudley

Well, what I hear with the high voltage power supply upgrade is, you guessed it, better bass. Also (even) better transparancy and an increased sense of space within the recordings. However the ear has a lousy memory and I was without the unit (and thus without analog, full stop) for over two weeks.

The problem is--if it is a problem--that I still have to dial the amp (an ASL integrated) to about 2 O'clock in order to approximate a live-ish (or just serious listening) level. And I'm NOT talking ear bleed levels, either. As I said in my original post on this topic, the CDP is happy at 10, "serious" at noon and way too damn loud at 2PM through the same amp.

Cartridge is a Grado Master Reference (H). At or just above 4.0mv.

I'm assuming FVA and company test, and listen to, any unit they upgrade before shipping it back, so perhaps I have a system synergy issue?

The biggest frustration is that this 2 o'clock level is just about right for most listening, but every once in a while I like to rock a little. No way. Not with vinyl, anyway, not with this phono stage. Because if I start aiming for 3 o'clock, it's goodby dynamics, welcome distortion.

Guess I had hopes for this PS upgrade beyond what it's designed to provide. And I see little sense in dumping an $800. cartridge to (somehow) better match a $700 phono stage.

Does this thing need a step-up, even for Moving Iron? Are there tube options I should be considering (I'm using NOS Mazda grey plates; have tried Teles, JJs, JAN Phillips, Valve Art...)? Or should I just get my sorry self over to AudioGon, sell the T6 and get on with life?

WEEZ · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Mar 2004, 04:58 pm »

BOSH,

You have a stand-alone phono stage then, I see. Maybe in your case there is an impedence mis-match with the T6 phono and your ASL integrated amp. Does the ASL have a dedicated pre-amp section- or is it passive? If it is passive(i.e.-no additional pre-amp gain) and high input impedence- maybe 100kohms,or so, that could be contribute to the low output you experience in your system.

In smccull's case, however, sounds like either there isn't a phono stage at all- or the tubes are shot.

My understanding with AVA gear- is that it is designed to be compatible with most stuff out there- so maybe just a call to AVA describing you sytem problems might result in a remedy

Best of luck to both of you. I, for one, couldn't live without my vinyl

WEEZ

smccull · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Mar 2004, 05:36 pm »

Thanks for all the help guys. I popped the top on my T7 and found that the phono tubes had shaken a bit loose in shipping. Seating them back in place brought about better volume and dynamics. Still not quite the same as my Monolithic outboard PS so I might check out a transformer anyway.

Thanks for all the help!