The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak

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jtwrace

The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« on: 9 Nov 2010, 05:39 pm »
Reposted from a different thread that was pruned.


For those of you that want to try out this novel idea, just take a 2 foot length of common ordinary zip cord. Steal it from an unused lamp. Slit it into two lengths. Strip both ends of both lengths about 2 inches back from each end. Make two loops  and twist the copper wires of each loop together. Do not twist the copper wires of each loop with each other, you want two separate loops of wire, one for each speaker. Slip the twisted end onto the negative terminal of each speaker system.

This will provide a difference in your sound field, more air and space to the illusion provided. It is ugly and it is about 30% of what the AudioPrism Ground Control provides.

Thanks for the kind words Anand, the technology, provided by the same R&D that provides that deeply rendered sound field from the transformers is what has been used to allow me to reduce the size of that 2 foot long piece of zip cord and then provide the rest of what the GC's provide.

Bud



another:
Only comment is KEEP THEM OFF OF YOUR DIGITAL GROUNDS, brought to you by the soon to be poorer inventor.

Bud

sts9fan

Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #1 on: 9 Nov 2010, 05:54 pm »
Anyone got a diagram?

turkey

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #2 on: 9 Nov 2010, 06:19 pm »
Anyone got a diagram?

If I read things right, here and on diyaudio, what you're making will resemble hoop earrings hanging from the negative binding post or terminal of each channel.

Or you could describe each of them as a loop of wire with a pigtail. (The twisted together ends of each loop are the pigtail and are what you insert into the binding post or terminal.)

Big Red Machine

Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #3 on: 9 Nov 2010, 06:28 pm »
You loop the wire and then cut the bottom loop and solder all of them together.

Then you solder all of top of the loop pieces together.




turkey

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #4 on: 9 Nov 2010, 06:53 pm »
You loop the wire and then cut the bottom loop and solder all of them together.

Then you solder all of top of the loop pieces together.


It looks like what you have is a wire with both ends tinned, and then formed into a loop.

srb

Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #5 on: 9 Nov 2010, 06:59 pm »
Why make a 2nd solder connection at the bottom of the loop instead of just bending the loop in half at the bottom?
 
Steve

sts9fan

Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #6 on: 9 Nov 2010, 07:09 pm »
all that looks like is a loop of wire to me.  All you do is loop and stic the two ends in the -?

BudP

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #7 on: 9 Nov 2010, 07:19 pm »
Virtually any length of wire that has a dielectric around it will provide some form of change, even when the dielectric is air and the nearest form of plastic molding. This is a subtle format and as with other subtle formats changes are made with every thing you do.

The Ground Control devices are a fairly high Q application of this discovery, done to get the physical size down to something reasonable and the installation hassles to a minimum. They are tuned to be useful across the widest range of ground side conditions and even so, we have to have two different ones to cover the two main needs.

The Standard covers those situations where the dearth of back wave coherence, the signal being pulled from the ground beyond the load, has caused the perceived illusion of sound stage to fall between the speakers and be fairly shallow. The Reference uses subtly different techniques to enhance the depth of information coherence in the back wave, with a corresponding reduction in stage width.

Interestingly, these two characteristics cannot be gotten out of the same device, but can be gotten from stacking two devices, one Standard and one Reference.

At this high a Q, small mistakes in materials can cause rather large changes in performance, Without an understanding of the basic principles of operation, and they are not derivable from first order approximations of LCR characteristics, any alterations made, in manufacturing techniques or materials, will be uncontrolled and the results will be unpredictable. And then there is the question of repeatable characteristics across the products manufacturing lifetime.

There are actually good reasons why we charge what we charge We build what we build in the way we build it, to provide the widest range of possible after load conditions with a useful retention of back wave information coherence. We are well aware that some situations cannot be solved by one or the other types of Ground Control we provide, that is why we have a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee.

I will point out that I can tune our devices to solve even those difficult cases, just from feedback from the end user, I do not have to hear the system in question.

And again, please, do yourself a favor and keep these devices away from digital circuit grounds. The digital device will loose clock sync and if the ground does not properly reset, with a complete power recycle, the device may never work properly again. Even a buffer resistor or capacitor is enough to protect the digital portion of a CD player or out board DAC so keeping the Ground Controls on analog RCA outputs will not harm a mixed mode device.

Bud
« Last Edit: 10 Nov 2010, 01:04 am by BudP »

Mitsuman

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #8 on: 9 Nov 2010, 07:29 pm »
Virtually any length of wire that has a dielectric around it will provide some form of change, even when the dielectric is air and the nearest form of plastic molding. This is a subtle format and as with other subtle formats changes are made with every thing you do.

The Ground Control devices are a fairly high Q application of this discovery, done to get the physical size down to something reasonable and the installation hassles to a minimum. They are tuned to be useful across the widest range of ground side conditions and even so, we have to have two different ones to cover the two main needs.

The Standard covers those situations where the dearth of back wave coherence, the signal being pulled from the ground beyond the load, has caused the perceived illusion of sound stage to fall between the speakers and be fairly shallow. The Reference uses subtly different techniques to enhance the depth of information coherence in the back wave, with a corresponding reduction in stage width.

Interestingly, these two characteristics cannot be gotten out of the same device, but can be gotten from stacking two devices, one Standard and one Reference.

At this high a Q, small mistakes in materials can cause rather large changes in performance, Without an understanding of the basic principles of operation, and they are not derivable from first order approximations of LCR characteristics, any alterations made, in manufacturing techniques or materials, will be uncontrolled and the results will be unpredictable. And then there is the question of repeatable characteristics across the products manufacturing lifetime.

There are actually good reasons why we charge what we charge We build what we build in the way we build it, to provide the widest range of possible after load conditions with a useful retention of back wave information coherence. We are well aware that some situations cannot be solved by one or the other types of Ground Control we provide, that is why we have a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee.

I will point out that I can tune our devices to solve even those difficult cases, just from feedback from the end user, I do not have to hear the system in question.

And again, please, do yourself a favor and keep these devices away from digital circuit grounds. The digital device will loose clock sync and if the ground does not properly reset, with a complete power recycle, the device may never work properly again. Even a buffer resistor ir capacitor is enough to protect the digital portion of a CD player or out board DAC so keeping the Ground Controls on analog RCA outputs will not harm a mixed mode device.

Bud

Can you please tell me what this means, exactly?  :oops:

davidrs

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #9 on: 9 Nov 2010, 08:55 pm »
jtwrace - Thanks for reposting and creating a new thread focused on the discussions pertaining to the BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak.

BudP - Thanks for the detailed response and guidance.

BudP

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #10 on: 9 Nov 2010, 09:47 pm »
Mitsuman, assuming that the bold type portion is what you are asking after.

Think of an audio system. The primary focus of all effort to date has been upon the leading edge, sustain and decay of audio signals. The part that travels directly from source to load. If we assume that information theory is correct, then this "signal" is a coherent, structured format. Careful attention is paid to keeping this "signal" chain from source to load as a proper data packet, in information terminology. Electrical engineering has done a stunningly good job of performing this task.

Now, let's consider what happens to this positive going signal, this coherent data structure, once it has made it's positive going pass through the load. Where does it go? What form of controls have been brought into play to maintain the coherence of this information packet ,up to the moment that there is an E Field moment, during which time the vector of the signal changes and this data packet is pulled back through the load, as the back half of the wave form that was so carefully controlled during it's positive going portion.

Certainly a fully differential circuit answers this question. Equally certainly, a single ended circuit with a poured ground plane, mirroring the signal components, also performs a good portion of what the fully differential circuit provides. What manner of control is there for the much more typical single ended, with respect to ground, circuit used in most commercial electronics? There are many good reasons why you do not want a poured ground plane and you will find that most competent audio designers are aware of them. A fully differential circuit is not cost effective and so, is not marketed as a common solution to a problem that is easily ignored. Strip grounds on a PCB are much more cost effective, but the signal that has passed through the load is not being held here. Rather it is being dumped into the power system ground plane and out to earth ground, or as a circulating current in the chassis or even just left to ring in the strip ground, zero signal reference. None of these common solutions can maintain the signal integrity of the back half of the wave form.

This is what Ground Control is designed to do, to provide a partial alternative that provides a local support for maintaining the signal coherence of these neglected portions of our source material. Live sound does not have this problem of information de-coherence and if you read the comments of those who have corrected this situation with Ground Control you will discover that they speak directly to this coherence issue. Most of us don't have any experience with obtaining  fully coherent back wave from our audio systems and when presented with a corrected signal make comments like, more natural, a greater "ease", more rounded, with the illusion of 3 dimensions being more pronounced.

The information retained is that which is most easily lost, wide band low level, image structural information. Reflections, internal note and transient colors etc., but only those from the back half of the wave form, after the load.

Bud
« Last Edit: 10 Nov 2010, 01:10 am by BudP »

BudP

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #11 on: 9 Nov 2010, 09:56 pm »
sts9fan.
Quote
All you do is loop and stic the two ends in the -?

If all you are interested in is just proof of principle, then yes, that is all you need to do. Use the zip cord though. That is enough of what is needed to cause you to become aware of what has changed. For any thing really useful, balanced and repeatable, you will have to do quite a bit of development work, or copy my work.

Bud


jtwrace

Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #12 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:00 pm »
Bud

Can you post a link to purchase yours?   :thumb:

Wayner

Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #13 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:06 pm »
The only Ground Control that I know, or knew of was to Major Tom.

Wayner

Mitsuman

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #14 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:08 pm »
Mitsuman, assuming that the bold type portion is what you are asking after.

Think of an audio system. The primary focus of all effort to date has been upon the leading edge, sustain and decay of audio signals. The part that travels directly from source to load. If we assume that information theory is correct, then this "signal" is a coherent, structured format. Careful attention is paid to keeping this "signal" chain from source to load as a proper data packet, in information terminology.Electrical engineering has done a stunningly good job of performing this task.

Now, let's consider what happens to this positive going signal, this coherent data structure, once it has made it's positive going pass through the load. Where does it go? What form of controls have been brought into play to maintain the coherence of this information packet ,up to the moment that their is an E Field moment, during which time the vector of the signal changes and this data packet is pulled back through the load, as the back half of the wave form that was so carefully controlled during it's positive going portion.

Certainly a fully differential circuit answers this question. Equally certainly, a single ended circuit with a poured ground plane mirroring the signal components also performs a good portion of what the fully differential circuit provides. What manner of control is there for the much more typical single ended, with respect to ground circuit used in most commercial electronics. There are many good reasons why you do not want a poured ground plane and you will find that most competent audio designers are aware of them. A fully differential circuit is not cost effective and so, is not marketed as a common solution to a problem this is easily ignored. Strip grounds on a PCB are much more cost effective but the signal that has passed through the load is not being held here. Rather it is being dumped into the power system ground plane and out to earth ground, or as a circulating current in the chassis or even just left to ring in the strip ground, zero signal reference. None of these common solutions can maintain the signal integrity of the back half of the wave form.

This is what Ground Control is designed to do, to provide a partial alternative that provides a local support for maintaining the signal coherence of these neglected portions of our source material. Live sound does not have this problem of information de-coherence and if you read the comments of those who have corrected this situation with Ground Control you will discover that they speak directly to this coherence issue. Most of us don't have any experience with obtaining  fully coherent back wave from our audio systems and when presented with a corrected signal make comments like, more natural, a greater "ease", more rounded, with the illusion of 3 dimensions being more pronounced.

The information retained is that which is most easily lost, wide band low level, image structural information. Reflections, internal note and transient colors etc., but only those from the back half of the wave form, after the load.

Bud

So this information is sent to the speakers from the amp, but is "lost" due to the crossovers, voicecoils, drivers, internal wiring, etc. not being able to produce it. It is then "found" by installing a wire pigtail into the "-" terminals on the speaker, adding this "lost" information that didn't get captured the first time around,  so it can then be heard?

satfrat

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #15 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:11 pm »
Bud

Can you post a link to purchase yours?   :thumb:

I would think that product advertising would belong in the Industry Ads Jason,,, not the Lab Circle.
 
Cheers,
Robin

jtwrace

Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #16 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:12 pm »

I would think that product advertising would belong in the Industry Ads Jason,,, not the Lab Circle.
 
Cheers,
Robin

 :oops:  You're 100% correct!  My apologies. 

 :scratch:  Do I need to start that thread too?   :lol:  **hint hint**

Mitsuman

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #17 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:14 pm »
Never mind, I found all I need to know about the subject.  :wink:

http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=7615

BudP

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #18 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:36 pm »
Quote
So this information is sent to the speakers from the amp, but is "lost" due to the crossovers, voice coils, drivers, internal wiring, etc. not being able to produce it. It is then "found" by installing a wire pigtail into the "-" terminals on the speaker, adding this "lost" information that didn't get captured the first time around,  so it can then be heard?

No. All that you point to is still on the positive side of the load. It is after the signal, or, data packet, has been "turned loose" to find it's lowest ground reference,and then suffers the E Field moment, with attendant losses to a variety of difficulties, changes vector and is then pulled back through the load that Ground Control does it's job. Keep in mind that the signal, not the electrons carrying the signal, is what travels at a significant % of the speed of light.

As you can see, there is quite a big blind spot in our comprehension of what might happen after the load. Not easy to wrap your mind around.

BudP

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Re: The BudP DIY Speaker Ground Tweak
« Reply #19 on: 9 Nov 2010, 10:45 pm »
Jason.

Pursuant to our private conversations, I have to contact AudioPrism to see what steps they may wish to take. I am not empowered to "advertise" Ground Control". I answer forum posts because I am the inventor, but the choice of marketing venues and allied topics is not mine to make.

However, as a hint, please Google AudioPrism Ground Control for a number of reviews and marketing avenues. Also there is another earlier thread here on AudioCircle.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79279.0

Thank you for your courtesy in starting this thread.

Bud