Class D amps versus Sure ?

Rclark · « **on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:06 am »

So I haven't purchased an amp for my system yet, I have another month to wait for my XDA-1 DAC to arrive.

My speakers are Jim Holtz' Statement Monitors. (4ohm)

I know that the Class D amps are all the rage, and I'd like to get into one eventually, but what do you guys think of this class d amplifier?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=320-300

$44 !! Just need a power supply and a case, I guess.

This would be a very inexpensive and powerful class d entry. Quite a savings over the more powerful ClassD units.

corndog71 · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 01:45 pm »

Even when it comes to DIY, you get what you pay for. I plan on buying a classdamp mainly because the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. Not to mention the price is high enough to confirm value yet low enough to be competitive.

JLM · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:08 pm »

Looks like fun, but...

30 wpc for audiophile playback with a cooling fan??

Digital equipment is very sensitive to having the right/clean power supply.

Quality connectors, etc.?

By the time you add it all up your time will be cheap for a small amp with a fan.

Rclark · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:28 pm »

Nope, the one I linked to is actually 100 watts per channel @ 4ohms. For $44. The power supply you have to provide, and I would get a nice one. If you look at the reviews of the amps, and also the little video link they've got there you would see that the amps are so efficient the fans never really come on. Kind of a moot point as this thing would be inside a chassis of some sort and inaudible at any sort of spl that would require a fan.

The get what you pay for part is valid, but the ClassD amps put out quite a lot more power, and price up accordingly. But they're still pretty inexpensive. However, comparing prices, I would assume, this one is right in there, quality-wise, for 100 watts @ $44.

No?

wushuliu · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 04:36 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 28 Oct 2010, 03:28 pm

Nope, the one I linked to is actually 100 watts per channel @ 4ohms. For $44. The power supply you have to provide, and I would get a nice one. If you look at the reviews of the amps, and also the little video link they've got there you would see that the amps are so efficient the fans never really come on. Kind of a moot point as this thing would be inside a chassis of some sort and inaudible at any sort of spl that would require a fan.

The get what you pay for part is valid, but the ClassD amps put out quite a lot more power, and price up accordingly. But they're still pretty inexpensive. However, comparing prices, I would assume, this one is right in there, quality-wise, for 100 watts @ $44.

No?

Avoid the Sure unless you just want the convenience of getting it from PE. You do get what you pay for. The Sure has been covered all ways to Sunday on diyaudio for a few years now and they just don't sound that great unless heavily modded. Certainly not good enough for the Statements I'd wager. For the same money you can get the Hifimediy amps based on the same chip on ebay designed by guys from diyaudio for audiphile listening as opposed to the Sure. They even have a 300w version for about $100(!). All in all better made, more reliable, and will sound FAR better than the sure. In fact, you can check ~~The Lab~~ the hifimediy thread right below this one for pics, etc...

http://cgi.ebay.com/TK2050-TP2050-2-100W-CLASS-T-D-TRIPATH-T-AMP-Board-/130397808636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5c50a7fc#ht_1788wt_1135

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-Hifimediy-T3-300W-4ohm-STA517B-Tripath-amp-boards-/130420520248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5dab3538#ht_1497wt_1135

turkey · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 04:47 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 28 Oct 2010, 03:28 pm

The get what you pay for part is valid, but the ClassD amps put out quite a lot more power, and price up accordingly. But they're still pretty inexpensive. However, comparing prices, I would assume, this one is right in there, quality-wise, for 100 watts @ $44.

I like some of the amps from Class D Audio because they make them in the US. (Their TI-300 looks interesting.)

Still, this one from PE is certainly inexpensive. I'm just kind of skeptical about anything like this that comes with a cooling fan. That tells me that it _needs_ the cooling fan, and I'd rather avoid that for a home stereo system.

wushuliu · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 04:54 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 28 Oct 2010, 04:47 pm

I like some of the amps from Class D Audio because they make them in the US. (Their TI-300 looks interesting.)

Still, this one from PE is certainly inexpensive. I'm just kind of skeptical about anything like this that comes with a cooling fan. That tells me that it _needs_ the cooling fan, and I'd rather avoid that for a home stereo system.

It does need the cooling fan, and unfortunately the fan has been found to contribute noise to the audio...

dwk · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 05:08 pm »

I was also going to comment on how it seems that virtually everyone at diyaudio that is all over the Sure amps seems to have modded them. I'm still not 100% sure how much is actually due to sound quality and how much is that modding is half the fun.
I think the latter does explain why the classD amps have been so thoroughly ignored on diyaudio though - they don't seem to either need nor support easy mods, and so they aren't that interesting as a 'hobby' endeavor.

I've followed the TK2050 discussion at arms length, and my impression is that I have to agree with wushuliu - if you want a 2050 amp the hifimediy amps look to be better units at pretty much the same price.

Apparently I'm less and less of a diyer as time goes on. I had a Sure board but sold it without ever really using it, and have picked up a classD SDS-224 which I'm hoping to have together in the next couple weeks. I think I got modificatus-neurvosa with the Sure - I was so convinced that I'd have to mod everything down to the output coils to have decent sound that it just didn't seem to be viable anymore.

Rclark · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 05:14 pm »

Hey Wushuliu that 300*2 looks very interesting for around $100. It appears to be able to run off batteries. Can you suggest an appropriate battery/charger combo for the unit? And maybe a cheap/cheerful chassis + anything else this noob might need?

(or perhaps a high-wattage power supply would be preferable, combined with power conditioning?)

Hogg · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:06 pm »

A few places to look. Both are by European electrical engineers working in China.

http://stores.ebay.com/Helder-HiFi
http://connexelectronic.com/

The first, Arjen Holder, enjoys an excellent reputation at DIY Audio. His tripath offerings are some of the best. The second has a variety of offerings including Tripath. I have the LM4702 amd which is very good. Good luck.

Jim

wushuliu · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 09:13 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 28 Oct 2010, 05:14 pm

Hey Wushuliu that 300*2 looks very interesting for around $100. It appears to be able to run off batteries. Can you suggest an appropriate battery/charger combo for the unit? And maybe a cheap/cheerful chassis + anything else this noob might need?

(or perhaps a high-wattage power supply would be preferable, combined with power conditioning?)

Don't think batteries would be practical for the 300w - certainly not cheap! As it is, you just need a toroid transformer or SMPS to get the amp up and running, which will run you another $80 or more to hit the full 300w.This will get you in the same price range of the Classdaudio amps when it's all said and done. I'm not sure if you're looking to spend that much (~$200).

If you're looking for inexpensive, the 100w version is the way to go and for that you can use batteries. Maybe someone else can chime in on battery/charger recommendations...

Rclark · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 10:59 pm »

I spoke to Chris Adams from the Hifimediy thread and he gave me somew good suggestions. No, 200ish is not a problem if I'm going to end up with audiophile quality 300 watt monoblocks. 200 ish sounds like the deal of the century, actually.

So apparently what I need is the monoPSU 300*2 unit ($114), then I need a pair of the Meanwell SMPS ($85), a couple of cases from Par-Metal (??), and incidentals like wire and connectors.

I hope you'll be here to help me get all this together!

wushuliu · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 11:17 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 28 Oct 2010, 10:59 pm

I spoke to Chris Adams from the Hifimediy thread and he gave me somew good suggestions. No, 200ish is not a problem if I'm going to end up with audiophile quality 300 watt monoblocks. 200 ish sounds like the deal of the century, actually.

So apparently what I need is the monoPSU 300*2 unit ($114), then I need a pair of the Meanwell SMPS ($85), a couple of cases from Par-Metal (??), and incidentals like wire and connectors.

I hope you'll be here to help me get all this together!

Sounds good, but note for that money you can get the 250w Classdaudio kit - which is extremely easy to get up and running and will take up less real estate (2 Par-metals won't be cheap) ... ~~choices, choices...~~ I see, going for monoblocks. Sweet!

I haven't worked on these boards, but should be pretty easy.

Rclark · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 11:40 pm »

Yes a pair of monoblocks with seperate power supplies should give me a higher performance than the single ClassD kit, right? Gobs and gobs of overhead I hope. From what I understand the Statement Monitors like some power.

wushuliu · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 11:48 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 28 Oct 2010, 11:40 pm

Yes a pair of monoblocks with seperate power supplies should give me a higher performance than the single ClassD kit, right? Gobs and gobs of overhead I hope. From what I understand the Statement Monitors like some power.

I'm sure the Statement Monitors will appreciate the juice, given their really low sensitivity...

Rclark · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Oct 2010, 12:05 am »

ok, well cool! Thanks for the help. Certainly glad I posted the question, I never would have been aware of this other option. I guess I'm all set there on what I need. The DAC ships Nov 30 so I'll be around again eventually.

wushuliu · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Oct 2010, 12:12 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 29 Oct 2010, 12:05 am

ok, well cool! Thanks for the help. Certainly glad I posted the question, I never would have been aware of this other option. I guess I'm all set there on what I need. The DAC ships Nov 30 so I'll be around again eventually.

Please keep us posted and provide plenty of pics!

dvenardos · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Oct 2010, 01:47 am »

Just curious why SMPS instead of a toroid, size?

Quote from: Rclark on 28 Oct 2010, 10:59 pm

I spoke to Chris Adams from the Hifimediy thread and he gave me somew good suggestions. No, 200ish is not a problem if I'm going to end up with audiophile quality 300 watt monoblocks. 200 ish sounds like the deal of the century, actually.

So apparently what I need is the monoPSU 300*2 unit ($114), then I need a pair of the Meanwell SMPS ($85), a couple of cases from Par-Metal (??), and incidentals like wire and connectors.

I hope you'll be here to help me get all this together!

Rclark · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Oct 2010, 04:23 am »

Will do Wushiuliu, pretty excited and this project is a long time coming to fruition.

Choice of SMPS is recommended on the site itself, it says SMPS sound better with these particular amps. Just going with the recommended unit.

srb · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Oct 2010, 06:32 am »

Quote from: turkey on 28 Oct 2010, 04:47 pm

I'm just kind of skeptical about anything like this [Sure 2x100W @ 4 Ohm TK2050] that comes with a cooling fan. That tells me that it needs the cooling fan, and I'd rather avoid that for a home stereo system.

Quote from: Rclark on 29 Oct 2010, 04:23 am

Choice of SMPS is recommended on the [Hifimediy.com] site itself, it says SMPS sound better with these particular amps. Just going with the recommended unit.

I noticed that the recommended Mean Well S-350 series switching power supplies are also fan cooled.

Steve