[Vinnie R.]

All,

Still at RMAF (leaving tomorrow)... GREAT SHOW!

Vinnie from RWA had a very nice all battery system with his pre/dac, 70.2's and one of the various Zu's (Essence maybe?).  It was a very enjoyable system to listen to as it all seemed to just work together really well.  I'd never been all that impressed with Zu's, but they sounded quite good in his room Saturday.

Thanks, Tom!

Yes - those were the Zu Essence.  Today Alex Rosson of Audeze brought his iPad full of some amazing electronica that he composed and we fed it to the Cypher Labs AlgoRythm Solo to the Isabella's dac - mega clean, high SPL energy that was a welcome change to keep me smiling and FEELING the love! 

I want to thank all the AudioCircle memebers who came to visit - It was great meeting new faces and seeing ones from previous shows!  I'm still buzzing from the show, but sooooo lacking on sleep 

Cheers!

Vinnie

[TheChairGuy]

What speaker stood out at a sane price? I dunno...let's say.....$3K-$4K? tops or less hopefully.

From several reports it seems like the Fritz Carbon 7 gets a nod.

Once again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but many of of do not have $20k for speakers alone.

cheers to all

Fritz's Carbon 7's sounded very good...a pretty compelling value at $1750.00 a pair (I think).

2 months ago I heard his room at a much smaller San Francisco audio show....and he was playing his smaller model (don't remember the name) and that was pretty fine, too.

Hefty cabinets, great parts, minimal crossovers...a simple and effective recipe for good sound in a speaker (a personable fella' helps things along, too).

John

EDIT: just saw Vinnie's post...so sincerely great to meet you, too, and so pleased business and family life are good for you these days. Tuff to mention everything, but I thought your room sounded rather good, too.

[Vinnie R.]

Thanks, John - it was great to finally meet you!  Wish I had more free to chat during the show. 

Thanks again,

Vinnie

[TomS]

What speaker stood out at a sane price? I dunno...let's say.....$3K-$4K? tops or less hopefully.

From several reports it seems like the Fritz Carbon 7 gets a nod.

Once again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but many of of do not have $20k for speakers alone.

cheers to all

Duke's new speakers might be my pick at just over that price point.  Easy to drive.  Non-bipole version is less but they weren't at the show.  A bigger room would probably do them more justice but very nice overall.

[Pez]

Pics for ltr317, sorry Paul couldn't figure out a better way to do this for you!

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He will be on later of course to add comments.

I will be on later as well, but I have to tell you, I am exhausted. I'll probably be posting tomorrow. Until then I believe Tyson is working something up.

[talk2me]

From WGH, "Burmester had a warm inviting sound, I was pleasantly surprised". I appreciate your pleasure, but am surprised that you found the Burmester to be anything but warm and inviting.    I just purchased the Burmester 089 CD/DAC/PRE, and consider it to be my most important audio instrument in my life. And a big thanks to all who shared their pics!

[themadmilkman]

Were Zu Omen playing or was it a stationary display ? From stereophile blog pictures, it appears that there were just standing there looking pretty.

Zu didn't have the Omens playing in their room.  They had 3 of them on static display and had the Soul Superflys playing for the entire show.

A pair of Omens were playing in the Peachtree Audio room.  The focus of the room was more about integrating digital files into your system.  The demo was done using an iPad, a MacBook, 3 separate Apple TVs and 3 separate systems.  The demonstrator defaulted to using the system with the Sonus Faber Stradivari for most of the time, but I did manage to sneak in on Saturday morning and get the Omens going for a while.

Based on what I heard, I like the Omen's driver more than the Soul's driver.  The Soul may be more detailed, but the Omen seems more natural to me.  I've also found that the Superfly develops a somewhat nasal sound quality under certain conditions, although I haven't had enough time with them to figure out exactly what those conditions are (I don't own any Zu brand equipment, but I did have a pair of Superflys in my house for 3 days).  I didn't detect this same sound quality with the Omens, although my audition time was brief.

My only concern with the speaker is that it is fairly short and the tweeter is placed below the full-range driver.  In the demo room this definitely pulled the entire soundstage down and gave the feeling of sitting on a balcony overlooking the stage.  Sitting at home on my couch, though, and looking at where the speakers would sit makes me think that this wouldn't be too big an issue for me.  My couch isn't all that tall and I sit pretty far away.

The choice for me is pretty easy because I can afford $1000 for a pair of Omens, but not $2600 for a pair of Superflys.  If my budget were higher, I'd probably hold out and see what Zu releases in the next few months.  I tried to get the guys to say what they had planned but didn't have any luck.  It did sound like there was a lot more planned for the next 6 months, though.

[Zero]

- Excellent coverage.  Thanks goes out to those who have taken the time to provide pics and feedback. I'm real pissed that I missed this show. My friend was 40 minutes late in taking me to the airport, causing me to miss my flight.  $@#!@$@!!!!

[Tyson]

OK, it took a while, but here's my take on this year's RMAF.

General Impressions and Notes
This year's RMAF was an absolute blast.  Meeting all the fellow AC people was a GREAT experience for me.  All of you rock, best group of people at the show, bar none!

I especially enjoyed this year because Jason and I were focused on just hitting rooms we thought would be fun/interesting, unlike last year when we were frantically trying to listen to, photograph, and document every single room at RMAF.  We didn't hit every room this year, but then again, we didn't even try to. 

It also seems like most rooms go through 3 distinct phases - Friday is either mediocre or poor sound, Saturday is sounding pretty darn good, and Sunday people have the systems really dialed in very nicely.  Sunday is supposed to go till 6pm, but everyone at the show started packing it in at 4pm and heading out like rats from a sinking ship. 

On a different note, some rooms were much better this year than they were last year.  But, oddly enough, some of the really great rooms from last year were only mediocre this year.  On the other hand, some rooms (like Odyssey) are so consistently good from year to year that it's easy to kinda take them for granted.

Last observation - I'm a bit shocked how passive many of our fellow audiophiles are.  They sort of quietly shuffle from room to room, slip in, and meekly sit down.  I have a feeling that Jason and I were the only bit of life and laughter that had entered the room all day, many times. 

Oh, final note - Jason and I listened to a LOT of rooms, but if I have not commented on your room, it's for one of 3 reasons.  Either we didn't get to it (most likely), or we didn't like it (also fairly probable), or it was good but not especially memorable (not very likely).

Friday

CanJam - Spent a lot of time at CanJam on this day.  A few surprises, the Sennheiser HD800's do NOT live up to the hype, I like the HD600's quite a bit better.  Sure, the 800's have a better soundstage, but IMO the 600's are better in every other way.  On the other hand, the Beyerdynamic T1's absolutely live up to the hype.  These are GREAT headphones.  Clearly better than the HD600's and the super-badass modded 2003 DT880's that Jason owns. 

Only other thing worth noting at Canjam is that the JH Audio Pro 13 in ear monitors are da-bomb.  They were the best of the JH lineup, even better than the more expensive (and bigger) Pro 16.  Easily beat out the best Etymotics, Shures, and Ultimate Ears.  Although, I learned that it's bad form to compare them favorably to my Sensaphonic 2x-S IEM's with the designer.  He was a wiry, super-tattoo'd dude that designed most of the Shure's, all of the Ultimate Ears, and split out to start JH.  When I made the comparison ("Hey, these 13's sound just like my 2x-S!") Jason said he feared for my life

Daedalus Room - This is the "main" room, with the Atmasphere amps on the main speakers, and the Modwright amps on the new subs.  Sounds terrible.  I heard the Atma's last year "after hours" hooked up to the Ulysses speakers.  Sounded mediocre then, and sounds much, much worse now.  Room sounds terrible.  Luckily, the Atma's are kicked to the curb relatively quickly and the room starts to sound good again (see my Saturday update).



Modwright Room - Here is a room to write home about!!  Sure, it's got the "small" Daedalus speakers, and it's solid state amps, but it's got a tubed preamp and a tubed source (modded Sony and modded Oppo), and it sounds FABULOUS!  For the first day, this room is my absolute pick for best sound.  The Oppo is so good that I think there's very little gap between it and the very nice VPI turntable.  As someone that has always felt that analog has a large inherent advantage over digital, this is quite a statement.  Dan should be congratulated, he is clearly a badass designer who absolutely knows what the hell he is doing.



Emerald Physics - I was very, very disappointed with the EP room last year at RMAF.  Overall boring in the bass/mids and really shouty and bright in the highs.  However, this year they were MUCH improved.  According to the designer, they were only different in the cabinetry, but my ears told me that they are much better integrated in the mid/tweeter range, and quite a bit more musical.



Empirical Audio - The Salk Soundscapes and the BPT power conditioners also shared this room.  What can I say, Steve has GREAT taste in music   Several tracks of Mahler and I'm a very happy boy!  Now, understand that I am a dyed in the wool tube guy, and this system is completely solid state.  To make matters worse, I absolutely hate metal and ceramic midrange drivers.  Of course the Soundscapes use a ceramic mid with an all SS system in front of them.  Oh, you can hear me groaning to myself already!  How did it sound?  Suprisingly good!!  While I would prefer a richer tonal balance (being a paper driver and tube guy), I thought the soundstage depth and separation was outstanding, and the overall coherence was also very impressive.  I might not be an SS/Ceramic guy, but for those people that are, this is the system for you!!!  Details out the wazoo and the speakers did not sound "short", even though they are physically short.



German Physics - I love rooms like this.  They are not "perfect" in the traditional cone/dome/planar sense, but they use different technology to do things that are very, very interesting.  The strengths are that the soundstage was absolutely stable no matter where you stood or sat in the room.  They actually had pretty good deep bass with the downfiring woofer at the base of the speaker.  But, the one thing that I missed was the physical thump and visceral impact that a front facing woofer can give you.  No pic, sorry that Jason was falling down on the job.

TAD - Awesome room.  Jeez, these things are incredibly built.  Big, impressive, and highly musical sound.  I'll NEVER own a speaker this expensive, but it does not diminsh how great they sound.

Kimber/Sony - A Sony speaker?  Are you f'ing kidding me?!?  Jason was bored in this room, but I liked it.  Not the most dynamic speakers ever, but I thought they were quite musical in an even-handed sort of way.  The tweeter (a Scan-Speak 6600) and mids (a Scan-Speak 5.5 inch Illuminator) are very nice.  Maybe not the most attention-grabbing setup, they still were quite pleasant.

Quad - Good sounding speakers, but like the crappy Dynaudio speakers last year, these did not image well at all.  The performers literally sounded like they were stuck in a pit dug into the floor.  These speakers are too short, they really, really need some stands.



GR Research - Danny got a haircut!  Missing the curls, buddy   The woodwork on the V1's was killer, way, way better than my puny attempts.  I thought they were a bit bright and a bit loose in the bass today.  On the other hand, they had killer imaging.  In fact, the imaging was among the best.  I also checked the room out on Saturday, see my update there.



Selah AudioRick is much younger than I pictured in my head.  I always imagined a wizened old man with a white flowing beard (no joke!).  But he's quite non-old   He gets major props from me for not locking his door precisely at 6pm on Friday and actually let us in to listen (unlike some of the other jerk-off rooms we tried first).  These are really, really good stand mount speakers.  I thought from my spot they were a tiny bit boomy, but were otherwise very coherent and very nice sounding.  That RAAL tweeter is very nice indeed.  The bass issues were almost certainly the room and not the speaker (and I speak from experience here).  While the speakers in the room do not displace my favorite Selah speaker (the AWESOME Excelarray that a local Denverite owns), it was really nice for a stand mount.  I guess I'm just a tower speaker kinda guy



And like I said earlier, if you room is not mentioned, either we didn't get to it, or it sucked bad enough that we didn't want to embarrass you.

[Wind Chaser]

Daedalus Room - This is the "main" room, wiht the Atmasphere amps on the main speakers, and the Modwright amps on the new subs.  Sounds terrible.  I heard the Atma's last year "after hours" hooked up to the Ulysses speakers.  Sounded mediocre then, and sounds much, much worse now.  Room sounds terrible.  Luckily, the Atma's are kicked to the curb relatively quickly and the room starts to sound good again (see my Saturday update).

OTLs will not perform well with a 6 ohm load. 

[Tyson]

HAHA, you are NOT kidding    And to be honest, I've heard the Atma's in a few different systems and they have pretty much sucked in all of them, IMO.

Of course, I have not heard YOUR system, so maybe you can invite me over (and pay for my plane ticket) to listen to them.  Perhaps then I will like them?  And maybe you will stop feeling the need to defend them?

[Wind Chaser]

Put THESE in between the Atma-Spheres and the Ulysses and you have game changer. 

[Tyson]

Dude, seriously, the DESIGNER of the Atma's was in the room working on them.  If there was anything needed like the autoformers, don't you think the f'ing designer would have insisted on them?

[Pez]

OTLs will not perform well with a 6 ohm load. 

HAHA, you are NOT kidding    

No, BS you're both wrong. The Berning Amp performed admirably on the Daedalus speakers with the Ulysses. The freakin Atmaspheres were solely to blame and that is the end of it. You can argue that it was a "bad match" but wow, 4 out of 4 rooms I listened to with Atmaspheres were a "bad match"? Damn what are the odds?

And also LOL! Putting OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS into a OUTPUT TRANSFORMER-LESS tube amp? That's like eating a tortilla with a naked burrito. 

[Tyson]

I can't seem to play nice (and neither can Pez), for which I apologize (both to Wind Chaser, as well as the general reader).  Anyway, on to Saturday's coverage....

[Tyson]

OK, before WC started crapping on this thread.... let me finish up on Friday's coverage.  Chairguy, Pez, me, woodsyi, and some other dude (haha, sorry man, you are a damn liar), went for dinner at Shanahans.  I gotta say, this was one of the most incredible nights of bonding ever.  Hearing chairguy get drunk off his ass and go on and on about how spectacular the mushrooms are was immensely enjoyable.  And hearing woodsyi chew out both the manager and the wine guy to their face was absolutely priceless!!!  But I got your back guys, you both ROCK and I LOVE the cajones on BOTH of you.  PEZ, not so much.

[Pez]

But I got your back guys, you both ROCK and I LOVE the cajones on BOTH of you.  PEZ, not so much.

Darn, Tyson doesn't like my... Cajones. 

[Mariusz]

Zu didn't have the Omens playing in their room.  They had 3 of them on static display and had the Soul Superflys playing for the entire show.

A pair of Omens were playing in the Peachtree Audio room.  The focus of the room was more about integrating digital files into your system.  The demo was done using an iPad, a MacBook, 3 separate Apple TVs and 3 separate systems.  The demonstrator defaulted to using the system with the Sonus Faber Stradivari for most of the time, but I did manage to sneak in on Saturday morning and get the Omens going for a while.

Based on what I heard, I like the Omen's driver more than the Soul's driver.  The Soul may be more detailed, but the Omen seems more natural to me.  I've also found that the Superfly develops a somewhat nasal sound quality under certain conditions, although I haven't had enough time with them to figure out exactly what those conditions are (I don't own any Zu brand equipment, but I did have a pair of Superflys in my house for 3 days).  I didn't detect this same sound quality with the Omens, although my audition time was brief.

My only concern with the speaker is that it is fairly short and the tweeter is placed below the full-range driver.  In the demo room this definitely pulled the entire soundstage down and gave the feeling of sitting on a balcony overlooking the stage.  Sitting at home on my couch, though, and looking at where the speakers would sit makes me think that this wouldn't be too big an issue for me.  My couch isn't all that tall and I sit pretty far away.

The choice for me is pretty easy because I can afford $1000 for a pair of Omens, but not $2600 for a pair of Superflys.  If my budget were higher, I'd probably hold out and see what Zu releases in the next few months.  I tried to get the guys to say what they had planned but didn't have any luck.  It did sound like there was a lot more planned for the next 6 months, though.

Thank you for your honest impressions. Seems like there is not a whole lot to cry about in $999 per pair speakers....... However, positioning of the tweeter and the height of the speaker is a little concerning. If something simple as solid base speaker stand could solve the "balcony" staging issue, maybe its performance could be elevated a few notches???

As to differences between the Omens and Souls..... I am with you on less forward presentation.

FWIW - I'll try different amps with my pair ones it arrives, but tube pre and 300b SET is most likely a combo that Omens will be paired with.


Ones again thanks for your impressions

Mariusz

[lonewolfny42]

Hearing chairguy get drunk off his ass and go on and on about how spectacular the mushrooms are was immensely enjoyable.  And hearing woodsyi chew out both the manager and the wine guy to their face was absolutely priceless!!!

Now.....that's funny......

[Tyson]

OK, Saturday is a game changer for me in the high end audio realm.  We'll start with the normal stuff and get to the extraordinary at the end.  Actually, as I think about Saturday, HOLY CRAP what a huge day it was.  I can't believe the number of good to great rooms we heard.  Like I said earlier, RMAF this year ROCKED!!!  I'll try to hit the highlights here.

GR Research - Went back to see how things had changed since Friday.  HOLY CRAP the bass on the V1's was out of this world.  By far this was the best bass of any room of the entire show.  In fact, it's the best bass production of anything I've heard anywhere in my entire life!!  The mids were also excellent.  But the tweeters were too hot for my tastes, and I thought the room was a bit too bright overall.  I think there is an easy fix for this (reticulated foam in the tweeter horn throat), but I don't think Danny had a chance to try it at the show. 

Fritz Speakers - The thing I love about this room (besides the super-cool proprietor), is that they don't try to be something they are not.  Very good sound, even, balanced, and incredibly musical.  If someone asked me to recommend a bookshelf speaker that was great quality, this would be it.

Marantz Room - Marantz, meh.

Linkwitz Orion - One of the great white hopes.  Based on the buzz (and my own logical reasoning), I expected to love this room.  I do have to say that meeting Linkwitz was a true honor.  But if I am honest I must note that I do not like the metal midrange SEAS driver.  The bass was too strong.  However, them imaging was incredible, as only open baffle speakers can do.  Overall it's really close to the best ever sound, but the signifigant gaps really need to be addressed before that can happen.

Jones Amps - A room with speakers that have metal drivers?  And SS amplification?  Oh no, I am covering my ears already!  But, surprisingly they sounded very, very mellow and quite involving/relaxed.  Clearly they truncated dynamics, but I am perfeclty OK with that trade off for the smooth sound they produced.

YG Acoustics - Sounded terrible last year, and sounded "meh" this year.  From bad to mediocre is still an improvement.

AudioKenesis - Finally!  A room to write home about.  Meeting Duke was a pleasure, and his speakers were truly musical.  Very good dynamics and tonality and great imaging.  Loved, LOVED his demo/explanation of multiple ports on his speakers and their "high end" plugs

JBL Horn - I forget the name of the model, but I do know that they are FAR better than the much more expensive models we will hear on Sunday.

Tri-Audio/Acoustic Zen - My vote for best sound at show, bar none.  Imaging to die for, and gets to the soul and heart of the music more effortlessly thann anything else I've heard over the last three days.  $6k for a friggin 845 SET with 20 watts on tap?  You gotta be kidding me!!!

Ah, lest I forget, THE most transparent speakers at the show (too bad they sounded crappy):

German Physics - The little brother of the last room.  I actually think I liked these better than the bigger GP's.  Better mid bass and the same awesome highs and imaging.

Lonely Orphans Feeling No Love - No comment necessary:

Magico Room - Mediocrite personified.

Dynaudio C4 - My vote for biggest improvement year over year.  Last year the Dynaudio room was terrible.  It was the Consequence Ultimate model and it was absolute sh!t.  I mean, WTF were they thinking, this is a seriously flawed and stupid concept.  But, this year they bring out the Confidence C4 which is a GREAT speaker.  And they hook it up with a tube amp!!!  Couple that with dual dac's (YES, DUAL DAC's, you heard that right) from Wadia over a very good music server and you have great, great sound.  My vote for 2nd best overall sound at show (caveat - the music sever was awesome but the CD transport was mediocre at best).

Salk Speakers - OK, truth time.  Last year I simply hated the Salk room - the combo of bright ribbon tweeter and metal midrange simply drove me out of the room.  I didn't say anything at the time because I'm a gentleman.  I'm very happy to report that the circular crappy ribbon tweeter has been replaced with a RAAL tweeter this year.  This is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement!!  For me personally, the SALKS are still not quite my preferred flavor, but the sound did not drive me out of the room.  In fact, listening to how coherent and detailed they are from top to bottom, combined with the absoletly STUNNING cabinet work and craftmanship on them, I'd give them the "FLOORSTANDING SPEAKER BARGAIN OF THE SHOW" award.  IMO, Salk speakers really need to break away from the mid-fi AVA gear and start showing with true high end gear to really show what they are capable of.  I know Jim and Frank are probably friends, but business is business.

GR Research (again) - OK, the V1's kick the sh!t out of my V2's from a bass standpoint.  In fact, I will go further.  The V1's with their dual parallel active servo subs kick the sh!t out of EVERY speaker I have ever heard in my entire life.  Stunning, awesome, incredible, jaw dropping.... I simply run out of superlatives.  Mids on this day are also very, very good.  But, the highs are even brighter and more shouty today.  It's a single flaw but it really bothers me, particularly since my V2's don't have this balance at all (they are NOT bright).  I have a theory about the cause of this, but you have to read my V2 build thread to find out what it is   Again, Danny is an absolute pleasre to talk to and work with, and the value he offers is off the scale.  Nothing speaks louder than someone voting with their wallet, and of all the possible speakers I could invest in, I went with the V2's and I'm still absolutely, completely happy with them.

Von Schweikert Audio - OK, before last year at RMAF I'd never heard or seen a VS speaker in real life.  My impressions last year were that they were tiny (hobbit-like) speakers that sounded very bad indeed.  I did not post that during my show report, because I do not like to bad mouth manufacturer in general, and particularly not ones that are clearly making an attempt to push the envelope of design for their products.  But the fact is, I didn't like the VS room at all.  But this year?  Complete 180.  The VS room was musical, soulful, beautiful and involving.  Of course, having 45 watts of Cronzilla SET amp power driving your tower speakers does NOT hurt, IMO

B&W 802 Diamond - Better than the stock 802, but the massive sibilance still makes them suck.

Grant Fidelity - Very good sound and amazing case work on the equipment for a very modest price.  Black Treasures all around (which are the BEST tubes you can get - too bad I blew a quad of KT88's and I did not get the warrantee, so I'm screwed). 

Nola Audio - yes, open baffle can actually suck!!

Avalon and Rowland - Hey, here's a great idea, let's put a bunch of our really expensive sh!t on passive display so that NO ONE can listen to it!  Yeah, that's a f'ing brilliant idea!

Win Audio / Rockport - One of the rooms that really was amazing last year and took a huge drop this year.  I don't care how big your tube amp is, it should NOT be driving this speaker full range.  Oh, and I disavow knowing any of these losers in the photo.

Music and Arts  - Amazing room!!!!!!!!!!!!!  When audiophiles say "it's all about the music", this room is what they mean!!!!!  Too awesome for words, so I won't even try.  Buy every recording he makes, you won't be sorry!  And his speakers/system was super simple, but incredibly musical and involving.  As an alternative to a "lifestyle" system, it simply kick's @ss.  Even judged on an absolute scale it is very, very impressive.

Aperion Audio - This room, from a sound quality standpoint, gives the Salk room a serios run for the money with regard to value.  At least the tower speakers do (at $1700).  The bookshelf speakers are pretty meh, but the towers sound very good for very little outlay.  Ultimatley I'd go with the Salks becuase of their stunning cabinetry, but the Aperions sound more mellow and would be a good rec for non-audiophiles that just want something that "sounds good".

Fritz Speakers - Ah, finally a bookshelf speaker that I can write about!  I find I simply dislike small speakers becuase they sound small, or they are bright and irritating, or they simply lack a sense of scale that I love.  But not here!  Fritz is a MASTER designer and his speakers sound incredibly musical and involving.  Always a man to take the less beaten path, he ignores fashion and picks components that simply make beautiful music.  I love the fact that these speakers never try to be more than a bookshelf speaker, but rather they simply are the best bookshelf speaker that can be.