[DeadFan]

Bill

I will make the trip to the Gold Coast. It does appeal to my sense of adventure to think I might find the "Bob Smith" of source equipment almost in my  backyard. The proof will be in the listening.
I will have to carefully manage it though. My daughter (14) is going through a bad patch (she is now wheelchair bound via a hit n run accident), and is using me as a security blanket at the moment. She is finding it hard to go to sleep unless I lie down with her. I have a couple of care assistant's that are fantastic. I'm sure they can cover for me over 1 or 2 nights. As it happens I have a close mate that has just moved to the Gold Coast and he has been really bugging me to take a break, and visit him. So accommodation is covered. He is visiting me in Sydney next Wednesday, so I'll tee it up with him, then. I work weekends, with Wednesday's my one and only day off. I guess week days would suit the PDX guys anyway. I'll organize a Tuesday off as well, so I can have a proper break. Can you PM me your phone no so we can organize a suitable week.

Graham

[DeadFan]

Wind Chaser, that is a very good question. The amps are troubling me the most.

I am 60 years young and I'm looking for this to be my "final system" apart from a "refinement" here and a "keeping up with technolgy" there. I took a long time before deciding to use Bob's speakers as the base around which I build the rest of my system. I view the amps as nearly as important a purchasing decision.

As to affordability, I am not wealthy, but music is a passion and through circumstances beyond my control, my escape from lifes troubles. So I decided to make a reasonably large investment (for me anyway) in this "final system".

I have a pair of NuForce amps and while I think they are terrific value and filled my needs at the time, I am not convinced that digital amps in general will fully do justice to Bob's Revelations. I had budgeted to spend around $25,000 on a pair of monoblocks and pre-amp. (the price at which I could buy used Halco's). I have had advice that amps like the BAT VK600 in monoblock form are in another class again as compared to the various digital/mainstream amps I have nominated. In Australia the top of the line BAT is listed at $24000 each amp. I just couldn't afford/justify $50,000 on a pair of amps. If that is the type of quality sound I should aspire to, to do justice to the Revelation's, I either need a contact that can help me out with the price, or find a genius amp manufacturer that sells direct (as Bob does with his speakers).

I am very open to suggestions at up to $15-20000 (not including pre-amp). Pete (Big Red Machine) has made some very helpful suggestions including a "sell direct" manufacturer TRL Samson. A lot more research needed I think.

Graham
   

[PeteG]

Graham,

I’m very sorry about your daughter, I hope it all works out. I think a BAT VK600SE, Simaudio W-7 monos and W-8 amps would all be a good match with the Revelations.

[woodsyi]

I have driven Bob's AV1s (assembled and x-over custom built by Bill Baker) with 200 W tube mono blocks and they sounded great.  Actually, really, really great.  I am right now driving the speakers with 50W tube integrated in my bedroom and the speakers sound just fine at moderate volume.  I would think big tubes on top and large switching amps (1000W +) with mucho damping prowess on the woofers would be great with the Revelations.  From what I remember Bob uses straight out 4th order Linkwitz-Riley filter which would be easy to get in active x-over. 

I would love to try this.

[TomS]

I've heard Ted_b's system with the Revelations and it sounded great with the Spectrons he had at the time (now Modwrights?). 

Note he also invested a lot in the room itself (treatments, placement, etc.) so you might want to consider shifting some of those big amp dollars there if your situation permits it.  This will make a huge difference in your results, especially with the bass output and sound quality they are capable of.

Also, with 2 identical stereo amps you can passively biamp either horizontally or vertically to make it simple, no active XO required at all.

[bhobba]

I will make the trip to the Gold Coast. It does appeal to my sense of adventure to think I might find the "Bob Smith" of source equipment almost in my  backyard. The proof will be in the listening.  I will have to carefully manage it though. My daughter (14) is going through a bad patch (she is now wheelchair bound via a hit n run accident), and is using me as a security blanket at the moment. She is finding it hard to go to sleep unless I lie down with her. I have a couple of care assistant's that are fantastic. I'm sure they can cover for me over 1 or 2 nights. As it happens I have a close mate that has just moved to the Gold Coast and he has been really bugging me to take a break, and visit him. So accommodation is covered. He is visiting me in Sydney next Wednesday, so I'll tee it up with him, then. I work weekends, with Wednesday's my one and only day off. I guess week days would suit the PDX guys anyway. I'll organize a Tuesday off as well, so I can have a proper break. Can you PM me your phone no so we can organize a suitable week.

Hi Graham.

Sorry to hear about your daughter.  Hope she gets better soon.

PM sent with phone and email.

Both Bob Smith and Mike Lenehan are committed audiophiles who do this for the love of it and not for the money.  I have been following Bob and actively participating in this forum for quite a few years now.  I have recently formed a good relationship with Mike.  I am constantly amazed at the depth and breadth of their knowledge on matters Hi Fi.  But beyond that they have virtually identical philosophies and views on matters Hi Fi from recreating live events to amplifier power.  If anyone here in Australia can help you get the most out of those Revelations at a realistic price it is Mike.  I believe you can get top notch gear to fully realize the potential of those great Revelations for $10K or less.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Since you are in Australia, I'd stick with an amp that can be sold and serviced there...to avoid any future problems....hey, you never know.

I agree.  But I know the scene here in Australia and good high power stuff with the grunt to do those revelations full justice are not common.  I would suggest some of Hugh's stuff over at Aspen but they don't have the necessary grunt IMHO.  I know Mike Lenehan uses Macintosh 501 mono-blocks which are suburb and produce 1.2KW on peaks but are pricey at $20K - although Mike can get them for $15K.  Importing some may be the best option - I do like those Van Alstine 500W amps bi-amped the more I think about it even over the Cherry's.  Also since Graham will be visiting Mike he can give some advice as well.  He is the agent for a couple of manufacturers and can generally get them at a bit of a discount. 

Thanks
Bill

[Charles Xavier]

I've got a pair of Nuforce mono's Ref 9v3se coming next week for a demo.I'll let you know how they sound

[lonewolfny42]

Bill....

I do like those Van Alstine 500W amps bi-amped the more I think about it even over the Cherry's...

Have you personally heard either of these amps ?


(Fet Valve Ultra+ 550 = 280 watts) (Cherry = 400 watts at 8 ohms)

(The Revelations are 4 ohms....Cherry would be more than 750Wpc into 4 ohms)

[ooheadsoo]

I haven't had Frank's best, but I had a 550EX fetvalve.  My personal preference was for the DAC4800A I now have.  The DAC4800A has a very clean and neutral sound with power, power, power.  The older fetvalve I had had good power with tube softness wrapping it up.  I don't mean to tell you that the softness I heard was due to the tube stage, because I don't want to make it seem like I understand any of the engineering or its effects on sonics, but that's the most intuitive way I can describe what I heard (and I had the amp for a couple years.)  IMO, with Bob's speakers, you want to bring the most out of the speakers.  I preferred the cleaner, sharper transients that the DAC4800A gave me. 

Chris - that'd be >750w from the Cherry - BEFORE bridging, right? 

[ted_b]

My Spectrons, including all the monoblock accesories, including Remote Sense speaker cable trimmings (unbelievable technology, just ask Bob Smith...he was blown away at their sound at RMAF) could be had for $6k for the pair, and in monoblock mode they provide the 4 ohm Revelations a paultry 2400 watts/channel (triple the power and double the headroom of the stereo amp).   

[lonewolfny42]

Chris - that'd be >750w from the Cherry - BEFORE bridging, right? 

Right.....

Now ....most people that will read this thread....they will think were....CRAZY....
....talking this BIG NUMBERS.....but they just don't have the experience with these speakers.

Buy right the first time....

[ooheadsoo]

Graham, with that budget, you should really consider the room itself and its acoustics.  Few speaker systems can truly overcome a room's inherent signature.

[saisunil]

I am very open to suggestions at up to $15-20000 (not including pre-amp). Pete (Big Red Machine) has made some very helpful suggestions including a "sell direct" manufacturer TRL Samson. A lot more research needed I think.

Graham
   

Paul at TRL sells super mega bucks tube amps 100k+ and then Samson Mono amps - according to Paul these are almost just as good as those super big tube amps ... according to him - these amps will drive any speakers on earth
 
I'd say buy his amp and pre-amp and if they don't work for you - then send them back for a refund - so far no one has done that    most likely you would keep them and you could donate the difference towards your favorite cause or help a friend ...
 
Gee, if you lived any closer - you could borrow mine ... good think I still have the shipping crate ...
 
Feel free to send me a PM if you'd like to discuss this any further ...
 
Cheers
Sunil.

[bhobba]

Bill....

Have you personally heard either of these amps ?


(Fet Valve Ultra+ 550 = 280 watts) (Cherry = 400 watts at 8 ohms)

(The Revelations are 4 ohms....Cherry would be more than 750Wpc into 4 ohms)

Hi Chris

Nope I have not heard them but I know some people that I trust who have and they really like them.  Mike Lenehan also knows them and thinks they are fine but had a few other suggestions.  But I had forgotten about the 4 ohm thing and see your point.  However they also have what they call the double die option which doubles the power and allows them to easily handle one ohm.  That said you and others have tried those Cherry amps on Bob's stuff many times and is known to work well - which is a big point in their favor.  I can see how either option would be worth consideration.

I was just down at Mikes checking out the first production run of his new PDX DAC.  Man this is one fine sounding DAC.  It was not even fully tricked out with the top stuff like Duelund capacitors and already it is above the prototype, which is above the previous reference Mike was using - and that clobbers a DCS Stack.  This is serious stuff 100% for sure.  Will be looking to see if Chris (Lonewolfy) can get one so he and the other audiophile aficionado's of his acquaintance can check it out.  But that is a bit further down the track. We also checked it out against the base model Tranquility DAC.  Now the PDX fully tricked out is nearly 3 times the price of the Tranquility but it was absolutely competitive.  Very transparent and analog like.  Very beguiling.  The PDX just pipped it in bass control and coherency but it was far from shamed.  A 'coldness' issue we previously had was completely removed by powering the Mac Mini from a non conditioned power supply as recommended by Eric.  For the money the Tranquility is exceptional value.

Anyway I was chatting to Mike about Graham and his new speakers.  He knows Bob's speakers and believes being a transmission line design they will eat power like mad.  He thinks, like Bob, bi-amping will yield benefits by decoupling the power hungry bass from the tweeter - although personally he doesn't do it with his speakers.  He thinks the Macintosh 501's will easily handle it even not bi-amped - but they are pricey.  He thinks 500W Parasound's, especially bi-amped, will work well and he can get them discounted.  But they are $9K each - bi-amped even more expensive than the Macintoshes.  He also has a few other suggestions and is confident when Graham visits him he can hook him up with something suitable along with a PDX DAC and pre amp.

Thanks
Bill

[Rocket]

Hi Dead Fan,

You might want to try D.B. Schenker and get a quote from them.  I have imported speakers into Australia using sea freight but the added costs of using a customs broker and then paying all the extra fees really added to the price i.e. about $1200au.

Here is their link:

http://www.dbschenker.com.au/

Regards

Rod

[JackD201]

+1 on DBSchenker

I've used them for about 5 years, that's before the merger. Air or Sea, very good prices. I've had speakers shipped from Lake Bubinga to Manila. No problems whatsoever.

[bhobba]

I have imported speakers into Australia using sea freight but the added costs of using a customs broker and then paying all the extra fees really added to the price i.e. about $1200au.

Yep - that is the big problem with sea freight - it is cheaper than air but you really have to use a broker and there are all sorts of hidden costs such as lots of different handling charges.  I suspect it a hangover from wharfies when they really had control of the wharfs.  These all add up, the cost of the broker adds up and of course it's slower.  Everyone who I contacted about this said stay clear of it - do it by air.

Thanks
Bill

[DeadFan]

PeteG

Thanks for the kind words. A couple of people have suggested the BAT VK600SE and feedback is excellent but in Australia they retail for around $20,000ea. I just can't go that far. If they end up on my short, short list I'll try and push the dealer a little harder. I was discussing a popular amp with one retailer. He quoted $11000 ea which I told him was out of my price range and that I would look around at cheaper brands. Before I could hang up, he reduced his price to $5000ea!!! I must admit that gives me the shits a little bit. I am in retail, so I understand the need for profit but why have a crack at me for such an exorbitant amount initially? I suspect that the local BAT pricing may be similarly negotiated.
I'll do some research on your other suggestion, the Simaudio amps.

woodsyi

I am going to stick with SS or D class amps. I may well go for a tubed pre-amp.

All others
Sorry about slow responses. I very much value your input and am researching virtually all suggestions. I will respond as I am able. (I work 6 days and my daughter needs a lot of attention at the moment). For those that PM'd me same applies.

Graham

[DeadFan]

TomS & ooheadsoo

Point taken re getting the room right. As it happens I need to purpose build a new house for my daughters changed circumstances,
and the plans will just happen to include a music listening room. (eheheh!!!) Request for advice on that will be put in once equipment is settled on.

Speaking of which have you all seen JackD201 nearly completed room, as shown in the  Von Schweikert Audio Owners circle, Topic: World's Best CD Player? page 4. My god Jack, you having a shootout with ted_b?

Graham