[Jeff Ward]

Back in the mid-80s, I was really interested in 2 things that I had never heard: Van Alstine amplifiers and Vandersteen speakers. Vandersteens were built just north of where I grew up, but there was nowhere to audition them. I subscribed to Audio Basics, and thought that Van Alstine talked a good game, but again there was no place to hear any of his stuff. Besides, I had no money.

When I moved to Minnesota (and had a little more money) I bought a Van Alstine Insight 250 on faith, and went down to Audio Perfection to audition some Vandersteen 2CEs. For comparison's sake, I decided to listen to the Magnepan 1.6s. The Magnepans were just so far ahead of the Vandersteens that I couldn't believe it. They flat out blew me away. I didn't have room for them in my apartment. But I just couldn't wait to get something.

I bought MMGs, and it was sort of the beginning of the end for me. Within a month, I added an REL subwoofer. In another month, I doubled the amount of power adding a Van Alstine 550EXR. Then I moved to New York, and the real troubles began.

I bought 2 pair of MMGWs and a pair of MC-1s for home theater, along with 2 stereo Martin Logan subs. To power them, I picked up a nice used McIntosh 7106 amp. The realism of this HT set-up is uncanny, though I wish I had 200x6 instead of 100wpc. I run a pair of MMGWs as a phantom center channel, and I'd like to add a sub there as well, but I can't complain too much. I'm not much for bombastic movie attacks. Listening to 5.1 mixes of albums is quite a treat.

In my main room, I've moved on up to 1.7s and I'm dreaming of a serious McIntosh powerhouse in there. It just goes to show you that dreams can change. I thought I wanted VanAlstine/Vandersteen and it turns out I really want Magnepan/McIntosh. Part of that is influenced by the attitude of the Van Alstine clique around here. The amps I have sound good, but I'd rather own something that I feel good about, or at the very least something I can discuss without being shouted down.

[SteveFord]

"...it was sort of the beginning of the end for me.
Then I moved to New York, and the real troubles began."

How you have suffered, it sounds dreadful!

The fellow I bought my 1.6s from was in Brooklyn and was running them with a vintage McIntosh integrated tube amp which sounded really nice. 
The McIntosh gear just has such timeless good looks as well.
I don't know anything about cliques but nobody gets shouted down here.  This is our hobby and that's all it is.
Say, have you tried one of Letitroll98's brownies?  They're really quite something!

[TONEPUB]

Definitely the top to bottom coherence, especially with ESL's...

Always been able to sacrifice a bit of dynamics and extension to get that great midrange and imaging.

[Jeff Ward]

Not to diverge a bit, but... I've been thinking a lot lately about the relationship between audio systems and the "live musical event."(tm). Robert Harley has had some interesting editorials on the place of audio systems in our lives these last few months in Absolute Sound and I largely agree with his placement of such things not as luxury products, but technologies deserving of a central place in our lives. A few remarks in this thread have pointed at the significance of the planar experience, and a few more have gestured at their similarity with live sounds.

In my life, I have attended an incredible number of "live musical events," and I find little relationship between what I expect from my audio equipment and these experiences. One that springs to mind is an Adrian Belew and the Bears show at the Wiltern in Los Angeles. I sat in front of a PA with a blown speaker that rattled incessantly for the entire show. This is an experience that I would never want to replicate, but it points at the fact that most if not all "rock" shows are experienced through piston type drivers (and beaming, screaming horns). To replicate these shows would require moving massive amounts of air, to the point of pummeling me in my listening room. What I love about planar speakers is that they never beat me up.

I've been around systems that could do that. I remember quite fondly a set of AR-9 speakers I had on loan for a while, driven by a 500 watt Hafler. Neil Young's Reactor album had just come out, and in the ultimate oxymoronic experience hearing that Crazy Horse distortion so loud and clean was mind blowing. Things were falling from my walls, but I was in my 20s and loved that sort of thing. I never had the money to afford that sort of set-up anyhow, so most of my life I've settled for small box 2-ways (Advents), listening mostly to singer/songwriter type stuff. To get mugged, I prefer to go out.

When I was finally able to afford something more radical, I turned to planars because of that initial experience with the 1.6 Magnepans. They just sounded huge. I felt the sort of awe I have felt at live shows without the SPLs. Of course I've been to more than my share of intimate acoustic gigs (including having musician friends over to my living room) but my 2-way boxes always seemed at least fairly close to that. What they have never been able to do is convey the "size" of the live experience. As Neil Young says in Live Rust, "When I get big I'm going to get me an electric guitar-- when I get real big."

The sort of "big" I hear in the Maggies is purely a product of their design, not the same sort of "big" that I got from the AR-9s, if that makes any sense. I don't like most of the audiofool nonsense terms much, but the general terms like delicacy and soundstage start to come close to describing the experience-- but not really. It's a spatial thing, the creation of a feeling in a room. This feeling is not the same as live and can never be. But that does not mean that it isn't a significant experience of musical communication, a "time machine" of a sort that enriches us.

Lately I've been starting to build single driver full ranges as well, not because I'm dissatisfied with my Maggies, but because I'm craving new experiences. All this stuff seems like flavors of ice-cream to me, and to hold systems to abstract/technological standards seems counterproductive to just enjoying the music.

[SteveFord]

Interesting observations on live music.
Last year we went and saw Jeff Beck (he was great but way too short a set) and we were about 30 rows back.
The next night I put on some Jeff Beck, cranked the volume and thought, "this sounds every bit as good as what I just drove 6 hours round trip to go see and then he plays for one hour on the dot, thank you so much".
I'm told that other designs can capture that same you-are-there sound but nothing I've ever owned could come anywhere close.
For sheer volume, I can always plug in the Marshall 100W half stack down in the basement and drive my neighbors insane.

[thunderbrick]

I got DQ-10s in the mid-70s and quite by accident ended up with another pair, so I stacked them with the upper ones upside down.  In a big room the sound was huge, especially with Sequerra ribbon tweeters.  Many moves later they became long in the tooth, and I had heard some Maggies in a friend's apartment that were amazing, so the idea was planted.

Borrowed some huge Sound Lab 'stats and the sound was almost identical to my beloved DQ-10s, except I got a huge standing wave.

About 11 years ago I bought some used Martin Logan Quests that sounded like crap in my room.  In retrospect I should have tried more placement alternatives, but I dare not let my wife know I hated them.  By the way, ML's repair support was AMAZING!  When one 'stat panel went up in smoke (on a borrowed amp), I drove the 4 hours to the factory and just walked in.  You'd have thought I owned a major B&M store the way they treated me!  It was GREAT!

I sold the MLs to help pay for my new wife  and moved the DQ-10s back.  During that post-remarriage remodeling I shut down the audio room for 2 years.  Listened to the 1.6s in a B&M store and was not impressed.  Bought a pair of 1.6s on Craiglist, planned my placement better and WOW!  Do they SING!  What depth, detail, and soundstage!! I am afraid to move the stacked DQ-10s back to the listening room for fear I'll fall in love with them all over again.

In the meantime she has learned to love the sound so much that she lets me keep then well away from the walls.   

[jimdgoulding]

I don't still use them but the reason I once did is because mine were crossoverless and coherent top to bottom.  They were Acoustat Model Three's.

[aewhistory]

What made me choose planars?

Richard Vandersteen.  He personally led me down this path.  I was a Vandersteen owner, I had a 7.1 Vandy system with Model 3's up front, two pairs of model 2's for the sides and rears, and a VCC-1 center channel.  And then I fried a tweeter in my left Model 3. 

I was raising the volume and my pup distracted me for a few extras seconds.  When I looked up the volume setting was way too high.... and then the sound came on..... Pzzzt!  Damn!  So, I started testing my speakers to see what the damage was and I found the one tweeter was dead, but I also found that something wasn't right with one of the rear speakers.  I had bought it used and always used it as a rear speaker, so it occurred to me that perhaps I didn't listen closely enough when I bought it and it might have always been that way.  Regardless, I needed to figure out what was wrong, and I needed to rule out other problems with my other speakers. 

So I called Vandersteen to arrange for repairs and to ask for help in determining what else might be wrong.  Richard Vandersteen personally took my calls, and personally chewed me out, he was rude, nasty, and IMHO one of the biggest jerkoffs with whom I'd ever spoken.  For instance, no matter how many times I would tell him that I was a man he kept referring to me as "Lady."  After a couple calls, I'd had enough, I swallowed a little pride, got the speakers fixed, and sold the whole lot.

After I sold them my wife and I went speaker shopping.  We'd generally had speakers that either had a large soundfield (Ohm Model F's, Allison Fours) or were quasi-boxless (the Vandys) so when we discovered Magnepan we knew we'd found what we were looking for.  And we've never looked back; they are wonderful speakers.  And remember my pup?  Strangely, he used to leave the room when the Vandersteens were on, and sometimes he'd try to tip them over (although he couldn't).  The Maggies, OTOH, he loves.  When they're on he cuddles up next to them!  So apparently he's a Maggie fan as well.  Thanks Richard!

-Aaron/AEWHistory

[weitrhino]

Hearing is believing.  I had never considered myself an 'audiophile.'  Those were the guys who talked down to you at the hifi shops and seemed to delight in throwing out industry vernacular offering opinions on brands I'd barely even heard of.  The very moment I'd begin to feel as if I was being steered in a certain direction I would always walk away pissed at being treated a second class customer.  So I always considered myself more of a music guy instead and slogged along in the world of mid-fi. If it played reasonably loud without distorting and I could 'rock out,' then it was alright for me. 

I had a flashback to my college days where I guy I knew was extolling the virtues of the Carver Cube, the little 7x7x7 M400 amp at 251 watts per channel, and how it ran fairly cool to the touch. Years later this popped to mind while shopping for a decent amp so, I thought I'd give a used Carver a try settling on the M500 because of those gorgeous meters and the fact it would fit in my 17" wide shelf.  The difference I heard was nothing short of stunning compared to the various JVC equipment I'd had before.  "Whoa!  There's something to this Carver guy," I thought to myself, and set about learning what I could about Bob Carver and his products.  I read every one of his white papers I could find on the web, and in my layman's mind he made a helluva lot of sense.  I joined a Carver forum and soon found myself at the second annual Carverfest listening to a big pair of Carver Amazing Platinums driven by a pair of Silver 9t monoblocks. 

That was it.  I had to have some for myself and it was none other than Steve Ford who road tripped with me to central PA where I snagged a set of Carver Amazing Originals that had gone through the Platinum upgrade.  The seller was a bit hard up for cash because 3 of his rental homes had lost their furnaces all within a month's time.  Selling my old speakers financed most of the price anyway, so I've considered it one of my best purchases to date.  I just love that ribbon line source and huge soundstage. Now driven by 180 watts of tube power my Amazings sing with a sweetness I'd previously never dreamed of.

[aewhistory]

In re: to Bob Carver: I met him once.  Really nice guy.  Seemed a bit scattered, sort of like a professor with too much to do.  But he was really smart, very personable, and was a pleasure to hear speak at my local HT/audio store.  I can understand how you were drawn to him and his work.

[rollo]

How did you end up with 3.6 ribbons on your III-A's?

 My buddy Scot Markwell came over for dinner one night and turned up the volume a wee too much and blew the tweeters. He felt so bad he called Magnepan the next day and got me the 3.6 ribbons as a special favor from magnepan. Got lucky the hard way.
  They fit perfectly and took a half hour to install. Major improvement IMO.


charles

[weitrhino]

In re: to Bob Carver: I met him once.  Really nice guy.  Seemed a bit scattered, sort of like a professor with too much to do.  But he was really smart, very personable, and was a pleasure to hear speak at my local HT/audio store.  I can understand how you were drawn to him and his work.

Bob is an extremely nice guy, generous of his time and knowledge, perhaps a little too generous as he seems to take on all commitments and requests.  I was struck by his approachable nature and willingness to try out new ideas.  When often asked how something might sound his nearly universal response is, "I don't know.  Let's try it!"

[Minn Mark]

What made me choose planar speakers?

I walked into Audio Perfection in Edina, MN, and heard Diana Krall and her band.....in the room with me !  Never heard any more realistic speakers than the Magnaplanar 3.6Rs that I eventualy purchased.

Cheers,

Mark

[ajzepp]

What made me choose planar speakers?

I walked into Audio Perfection in Edina, MN, and heard Diana Krall and her band.....in the room with me !  Never heard any more realistic speakers than the Magnaplanar 3.6Rs that I eventualy purchased.

Cheers,

Mark

I'm only a luke warm fan of her music, but WOW does it sound good over the Maggies....i totally agree with you. It is one of my reference CDs for sure

[aewhistory]

Bob is an extremely nice guy, generous of his time and knowledge, perhaps a little too generous as he seems to take on all commitments and requests.  I was struck by his approachable nature and willingness to try out new ideas.  When often asked how something might sound his nearly universal response is, "I don't know.  Let's try it!"

Yes, that absolutely fits my impression of him, and probably explains the slightly scattered impression I had picked up (it is something for which I am guilty myself).  Definitely nice and incredibly knowledgeable.  An interesting contrast to Richard Vandersteen, who is the only other person of importance in audio history that I've had the opportunity to meet.  Both are brilliant, but where Bob is approachable and quite nice, Richard is...... well, I'll let my post above speak for itself.

Having said all of this, I've never had the chance to listen to Carver's stats.  I've heard the tiny sub (forgot its name), HT pre/pros, and amps, but never any speakers beside the sub.  I'd love to hear these some day.  Are they difficult to find?

Thanks, Aaron

[weitrhino]

Yes, that absolutely fits my impression of him, and probably explains the slightly scattered impression I had picked up (it is something for which I am guilty myself).  Definitely nice and incredibly knowledgeable.  An interesting contrast to Richard Vandersteen, who is the only other person of importance in audio history that I've had the opportunity to meet.  Both are brilliant, but where Bob is approachable and quite nice, Richard is...... well, I'll let my post above speak for itself.

Having said all of this, I've never had the chance to listen to Carver's stats.  I've heard the tiny sub (forgot its name), HT pre/pros, and amps, but never any speakers beside the sub.  I'd love to hear these some day.  Are they difficult to find?

Thanks, Aaron

None of Bob's ribbon driver speakers are very difficult to find from the Carver Amazing varieties to the Sunfire Cinema Ribbons (which absolutely require a sub).  The only real issues with the Carver Amazings are shipping and age.  They are big and heavy so you'd likely have to go get them from a seller.  The age issue is mostly related to foam rot, and nobody makes repair kits or has replacement foam.  However, Dynaco makes drop-in replacements for these rather unusual woofers.  The ribbons suffer more from foolhardy tinkering than from age, but they can be rebuilt and NOS or parted out ribbons can be found periodically.  Bang for the buck is not to be beaten.

[SteveFord]

Weitrhino,
If you see Bob Carver before I do could you ask him if he's ever messed around with electrostats?  Perhaps you could inspire him to tackle a new project.

[weitrhino]

Weitrhino,
If you see Bob Carver before I do could you ask him if he's ever messed around with electrostats?  Perhaps you could inspire him to tackle a new project.

I try not to pester the man, Steve, but on occasion when I have a question about my amps I'll give him a call.  Next time I do I'll try to remember to ask.  Alternatively, throw the question at him during his next auction.  He'll answer it.

[mort]

I run a set of Carver's cinnima ribbon two's, I drive them with the 1200 watt Carver 1.5T (yes they can handle that power) Recently I was having the amp gone through at Rita's vintage Audio and M.R. Carver himself walked in. What a kind and interesting person not egotistical in the slightest way. When I asked him if I should be carefull with the abundence of power he simply replied " No, crank it up" His current line of ribbon moniters are available from Sunfire.

[jimdgoulding]

Big, transparent presentation of wholesome sound.