GedLee Abbey's Feedback Wanted!

turkey · « **Reply #400 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 01:39 pm »

Quote from: cmryan21 on 28 Oct 2010, 01:01 pm

Guys, is there any way to use an Abbey's as a center channel in an ht setup without using an acoustically transparent screen? My screen is 27" from the floor. I'm assuming Dr. Geddes has never made a horizontal version of any of his speakers.

The Harper might be a good solution for you since it's smaller. It's 19" tall.

I don't know if laying one of the GedLee speakers on its side works well or not.

turkey · « **Reply #401 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 02:09 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 28 Oct 2010, 01:34 pm

Dr. Geddes has said before a few times that lack of crossover distortion is one of the key elements he looks for in an amp assuming an otherwise competent design. It so happens that the Pioneer receiver is one of the few budget amps that meets this criteria. Class A amps (either SS or tube) are inherently crossover distortion free.

He has also said that much of this isn't audible IIRC. I got the impression that he didn't choose the Pioneer so much because it sounded better, but rather because it measured better.

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CD is hard to measure but it is audible. Most SS amps are Class A/B and pay little attention to crossover distortion.

A while back I remember seeing mention of a listening test where the amp that people preferred over the others was Class B. It made me wonder how audible crossover distortion actually is.

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I think there is also the spectrum of the harmonic distortion that is largely ignored but more important IMO than the level of HD distortion assuming we are not talking about gross (>3%) distortion. I'd take an amp with say 1% 2nd Harmonic distortion and immeasurable upper harmonics over an amp with neglible 2nd HD but trace amounts of 5th HD.

What you say is true, but at what point does it actually become audible? I think we once discussed a Parasound amp that had upper harmonics. You said you wouldn't want it for that reason, while I wondered if distortion that's 100 dB down or more is audible.

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THD is a useless measure because it doesn't take into account this feature of how we hear.

It is probably useless for loudspeakers, but it can still give a reasonable indication of when an amp performs well. I'd say that if an amp (that Parasound A 21) has less than 0.03% THD broadband at normal listening levels, we're good to go.

On the other hand, if we're looking at a SET amp with several orders of magnitude higher THD, it is worth looking at the distortion spectrum.

Some amps at, say, 3% THD will be truly noxious, while others may be more benign, or even in some cases pleasurable. (Euphonic distortion.)

JoshK · « **Reply #402 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 02:29 pm »

Well I remember reading a thread on diyaudio where Dr. Geddes was describing how he chose his amps. I think his point was that is was audible especially with hi-eff speakers, but that it wasn't nearly as important as speakers. I agree with this.

I, personally, believe amps and all the rest are audibly different but that the magnitude of the differences is small relative to that with speakers. I get a lot of push back from audiophiles on that one and I think there are many reasons why, but mostly years of conditioning. Changing speakers all the time is mostly impractical so audiophiles change gear instead, thus they begin to believe that that is more important.

I don't believe I have all the answers to why some amps sound different than others. I don't think I'd pass a blind test on comparing two Class A/B SS amps, but I could probably tell the difference between a good tube amp versus a good SS amp and I'd prefer the prior more than likely. I don't think its as easy as euphonic distortion. In Geddes's tests many couldn't detect the presence of 10% 2nd HD, so 0.5% isn't likely to be audible for better or worse. There is just a lot more going on than we get.

I disagree with you on the THD for amps point, but I can understand why you think the way you do. It isn't really worthwhile to argue about it because I don't have the answers.

Take a look at the distortion versus power graph for your Parasound. Chances are that distortion rises as power drops below a few watts. Why? This is the effect of feedback and IMD which raises the spectrum of HD. The problem is this is where we spend the majority of our time listening and I suspect this is audible.

turkey · « **Reply #403 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 28 Oct 2010, 02:29 pm

Take a look at the distortion versus power graph for your Parasound. Chances are that distortion rises as power drops below a few watts. Why? This is the effect of feedback and IMD which raises the spectrum of HD. The problem is this is where we spend the majority of our time listening and I suspect this is audible.

It actually isn't my Parasound. I've used it as an example because it's readily available, pretty well-respected, and the measurements are available on the web.

I just looked at the graph of THD+N vs. power, and while it does rise slightly at low power, it's roughly 75 dB down. I think that's going to still be inaudible, particularly with a complex signal like music.

http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=18&blogId=1

I see your point, and I don't disagree with most of what you say. We just don't see eye-to-eye on the audibility of some things.

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #404 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:33 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 28 Oct 2010, 01:39 pm

The Harper might be a good solution for you since it's smaller. It's 19" tall.

I don't know if laying one of the GedLee speakers on its side works well or not.

He offers a crossover change for a speaker to be used as a center on its side...

turkey · « **Reply #405 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 03:35 pm »

Quote from: TRADERXFAN on 28 Oct 2010, 03:33 pm

He offers a crossover change for a speaker to be used as a center on its side...

I thought that was just for use as a center, and the crossover change reduced the on-axis hole in the response?

jtwrace · « **Reply #406 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:04 pm »

Question for you GedLee owners.

Do you have satin or gloss black speakers?

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #407 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:04 pm »

Gloss Black.

Anand.

turkey · « **Reply #408 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:05 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 28 Oct 2010, 06:04 pm

Question for you GedLee owners.

Do you have satin or gloss black speakers?

Gloss black.

jtwrace · « **Reply #409 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:14 pm »

Is it safe to say that you all GedLee owners have CLD or No Rez inside the cabinets? I know Dr. Geddes thoughts on it already...

The only two options seem to be Piano finish and CLD. Gloss is N/C I'm a bit confused as I would've thought Gloss and Piano are the same but

cmryan21 · « **Reply #410 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:31 pm »

Quote from: TRADERXFAN on 28 Oct 2010, 03:33 pm

He offers a crossover change for a speaker to be used as a center on its side...

Good deal. Thanks for that info.

TomS · « **Reply #411 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:34 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 28 Oct 2010, 06:14 pm

Is it safe to say that you all GedLee owners have CLD or No Rez inside the cabinets? I know Dr. Geddes thoughts on it already...

The only two options seem to be Piano finish and CLD. Gloss is N/C I'm a bit confused as I would've thought Gloss and Piano are the same but

Mine are the older MDF cabinets in the satin finish. It is also very slightly textured with a extremely fine bead like material Earl uses in the paint. CLD was standard at the time. With Mike Galusha's suggestion of additional hardwood strips placed on the cabinet walls, Earl added those for my pair. I haven't done the No-Rez yet but may do that when I upgrade the crossovers. I also had him put Cardas Patented Binding Posts on instead of the standard posts, just because I love them. I bought those from Sonicraft and had them shipped direct to him.

The new poly cabinets may be entirely different so no idea on those.

turkey · « **Reply #412 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:36 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 28 Oct 2010, 06:14 pm

Is it safe to say that you all GedLee owners have CLD or No Rez inside the cabinets? I know Dr. Geddes thoughts on it already...

No No Rez here.

They have the stock (front and back) CLD and that's it.

turkey · « **Reply #413 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:38 pm »

Quote from: TomS on 28 Oct 2010, 06:34 pm

Mine are the older MDF cabinets

Mine have the oldest MDF cabinets.

dwr · « **Reply #414 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:57 pm »

Mine are the gloss black, the picture on his website of the Abbey is actually one of my speakers, and I do believe that the gloss black is an extra charge now.

jtwrace · « **Reply #415 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 06:59 pm »

Quote from: dwr on 28 Oct 2010, 06:57 pm

Mine are the gloss black, the picture on his website of the Abbey is actually one of my speakers, and I do believe that the gloss black is an extra charge now.

from my email:
I can now offer gloss black at no cost premium (polished Piano finish is still extra).

Dr. Geddes

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #416 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:01 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 28 Oct 2010, 06:59 pm

from my email:
I can now offer gloss black at no cost premium (polished Piano finish is still extra).

Dr. Geddes

Great, since I'll be ordering an Abbey center and 4 Harpers when the house is done.

Anand.

jtwrace · « **Reply #417 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:05 pm »

This is where my confusion is. What's the difference between Gloss Black and Piano Black? I thought that was the same.

I just hate to keep asking Dr. Geddes these questions...

Man I wish I could hear these speakers soon.

dwr · « **Reply #418 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:18 pm »

JW I'm going to send you an email.

jtwrace · « **Reply #419 on:** 28 Oct 2010, 07:21 pm »

Quote from: dwr on 28 Oct 2010, 07:18 pm

JW I'm going to send you an email.

OK. I like emails.

The 100 or so I get isn't enough.