[sneezingdog]

What is the scientific/engineering basis for the break-in/burn-in effects, esp for different components, like batteries, or cables or circuits or speakers? What's happening when beak-in occurs?

[srb]

As far as speakers, it is likely primarily the physical effect of the cone's or dome's surround and the spyder softening and becoming more compliant.
 
As far as wires and capacitors, many audiophiles will parrot that the "dielectric has to form", but most have absolutely no actual idea of what that means or entails, scientifically speaking.
 
Steve

[Bob in St. Louis]

This may just well prove to be an interesting conversation. Carry on men.....

Bob

[werd]

I think it just an environment break in. You buy something made in the south and ship it north it needs time to climatize or vise versa. Also individual devices shipped in from different countries that make up the bought piece might need to climatize to it's permanent environment. Break-in  is all about the weather and its shows up in our hearing ability somehow.

Don't know its just another  whacked out theory of mine....   

[kip_]

Here's an interesting article from Danny Richie about how driver Ts parameters can change over time during break in:

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

[Mag]

What is the scientific/engineering basis for the break-in/burn-in effects, esp for different components, like batteries, or cables or circuits or speakers? What's happening when beak-in occurs?

The change is occurring at the molecular level as materials, magnetic fields, align tighter and more linear after being expose to electric current.

example 1: Take a newly formed river. The water flow is widely dispersed taking various paths. However over time a river bed begins to form, where the water flow can concentrate with less resistance, thereby increasing the speed of the river.

example 2: Take a rack of billiard balls. When the balls are tightly racked, the transmission of energy from the break ball travels efficiently through the cluster of balls. Whereas loosely racked, break energy is dispersed and lost.

[PMAT]

Most of the "break in" is between your ears.

[Letitroll98]

This may just well prove to be an interesting conversation. Carry on men.....

Bob

Ha!  Let's see, my guess is three major fights, two inferences of mental deficiencies, and one claim that your system (hearing) sucks right after a claim that that you'll say my system (hearing) sucks.  It will take two and 1/2 pages for the facilitator to post a warning and four posts after that to lock the thread.

Wadda ya think?   

[Tyson]

Your hearing sucks.

[Letitroll98]

Your hearing sucks.

I'll meet you after school in the parking lot.

[j beede]

I find it interesting that audio reviewers find that virtually every link in the audio chain improves after break in. Thermodynamics teaches that entropy increases. My experience with musical instruments and photo gear confirms this law. My observations with fine pianos, saxophones and guitars tells me that they are at their best when new or newly setup. Same with Hasselblad, Leica and Zeiss--best when new. I believe that what does change is the listener's perception as the senses and brain adjust and adapt to changes. Think of new glasses that are uncomfortable and distort vision at first. After a couple days the pressure points and distortion fade away. Did the frame and lenses "break in"? Does the picture on your HDTV improve after the capacitors "form"? I don't remember reading any audio review where the reviewer reported that the subject of review was great at first, but seemed to "wear out over time" as thermodynamics predicts it will. Odd.

[TONEPUB]

It's really easy.

Get two of whatever you'd like to hear.  Run one for about 500 hours and leave one in the box.
After 500 hours do an A/B and I think you'll hear the difference pretty easily.

Some components change more over shorter periods of time, but they do change.  I always wondered if it was "getting used to it" instead of the sound changing, but I've done this a few times with different components and it's always the same thing.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ha!  Let's see, my guess is three major fights, two inferences of mental deficiencies, and one claim that your system (hearing) sucks right after a claim that that you'll say my system (hearing) sucks.  It will take two and 1/2 pages for the facilitator to post a warning and four posts after that to lock the thread.

Wadda ya think?   

Agreed, but things seem to be moving along fairly peaceful so far.
Maybe there's hope for us yet? 

Bob

[chadh]

When I buy a pair of jeans, those jeans are certainly in the best condition they will ever be at the time of purchase.  As I wear the jeans, the jeans start to deteriorate little by little, but they actually become more comfortable.  The degradation allows them better to conform to my shape, and make allowances for the irregularities of my body.

I think it works this way with audio components.  The more time they spend in close proximity to my ass, the better they sound.

Chad

[turkey]

What is the scientific/engineering basis for the break-in/burn-in effects, esp for different components, like batteries, or cables or circuits or speakers? What's happening when beak-in occurs?

There is no proven basis for many "break-in" claims.

Mechanical items do break-in. This is well-accepted. So, speakers may well be subject to break in. I've seen measurements of drives during break-in and the T/S parameters can change.

Things like a turntable, CD or DVD transport, and RtR tape deck probably show some break-in effects. Whether it's audible or not is debatable. Still, if someone said their turntable smoothed out after 100 hours I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. There's a basis in fact.

Some electronic components like capacitors need to "form" the first time they're used (and after long periods of disuse). That's not really break-in, and it doesn't take very long.

Other than that, there isn't any real evidence for "break-in" of electronic components. There are a lot of people who try to explain it one way or another, but there isn't a factual basis to any of it, and they can never show measurements that illustrate their claims. They can't even show that they can actually hear a difference when subjected to a controlled test.

So, things like wire "break-in" are faith-based, like a number of other things about high-end audio.

It's up to you whether you choose to believe in it or not.

[turkey]

The change is occurring at the molecular level as materials, magnetic fields, align tighter and more linear after being expose to electric current.

Can you show some proof for this idea?

[turkey]

I think it works this way with audio components.  The more time they spend in close proximity to my ass, the better they sound.

But this is a mechanical effect. A wire conducting an electrical current is not mechanical, and thus can't be compared to a pair of jeans getting worn.

[Wind Chaser]

Does it really matter?  With scientific proof in one hand, would you suddenly start hearing break in?  You naysayers are such a hoot!  If there were no scientific evidence to support where babies came from, you’d try to convince everyone sex has nothing to do with it!

[chlorofille]

sneezingdog - Why did you have to start this thread !

[sneezingdog]

sneezingdog - Why did you have to start this thread !

Yeah...I suppose my question was a bit naive. I haven't had a good music system for years and years. I'm putting one together now and have been reading various forums, reviews, etc. Lots of talk about break-in/burn-in even for things like cables. Many, many people report hearing it, sometimes in stages over hundreds of hours of use; too many to write it all off to imagination. So just wondering what the underlying science/engeneering was. I'm getting the impression that there probably is some basis in fact (speakers seem like a good example) and that it shouldn't take hundreds of hours to occur. I was thinking of just letting my system play while I am out during the day (as others seem to do), but don't want to tourture the dogs either. They are border collies and already a bit on edge.