Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?

Gopher · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 02:37 am »

Its fun to read what the pros have to say, though I'm generally not swayed much by reviewers.

For perspective I own the sixth pair of Soul Superflys, have the very first Nighthawk (this was Ray's personal unit), pre-ordered the minimax dac, was a beta tester on the Bolder digital mods for the Squeezebox Touch and the first to review Wywires cables (which now wire my whole rig). Also, I'm burning in a Firstwatt F1 with the JFET update as I type, and there is basically NO feedback on this yet!

Heh, ironically I almost enjoy the hobby more discovering things for myself and trying to validate my findings after rather than chasing others recommendations. Kinda cool to go into things with a blank or semi blank slate.

Interestingly the other half of my system is quite old! My other amp debuted in 1959 and my Well Tempered Reference dates back to at least the early 80s and my Denon 103D is certainly older than that as is my 103...

davidrs · « **Reply #21 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 02:50 am »

Gopher,

Thanks for your recommendation.

Instead of the Druid center, would you substitute a full standing Druid in the center channel position?

Or an Essence?

- David.

Mariusz · « **Reply #22 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 02:59 am »

It is risky ..... but cool being the first.........that is what I keep telling my other half.

Hey......you might be our new reviewer!!!!! Your sense of touch and instinct might be a gift that is going to wast..........Think about all those freebies flying under your nose.

I smell a shoot out between our Zu pairs in the near future. (NY)

Oh yeah....... some (actually 1 member) complained that Omen might not be Cheap or Cheerful enough for this Circle.
What you guys think (new, used prices, Using it with cheap flea amps like MiniWatt or vintage would make the total system price within the guidelines. NO?? And WHAT about used market prices??) I try to keep this Circle loose without strong moderation but I can change that if guys insist!!!!

Cheers
Mariusz

Edited some typo

Gopher · « **Reply #23 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 03:45 am »

David,

I can only speculate, but if you want a full sized center I'd probably do the Druid or the Omen for that position--or a Soul when it's released (especially if there is favorable intro pricing). I'm not much of a theater guy, but if you'd consider an essence for a center, why not just pick up another Superfly or standard Soul when it comes out with intro pricing? Do away with the speculation and just keep things the same, efficiency, tweeter and internal wiring wise.

Mariusz,

Funny you mention that--I've been considering starting a blog or something as an outlet. The forums move too slowly but I'm very close to set with my system and have fears of it putting me back on the gear go round. It's all good as long as your having fun though, I guess.

I'd get a kick out of comparing speakers down the line! I'd probably be uncomfortable as to how close the Omens come to the Superflys, but it would sure be interesting!

Mariusz · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 04:16 am »

Did you consider HiFi Zine ????
But I can tell you right now......it is complicated.

I would love to be a part of it if its office and its stuff committed to keep the windows close at all times. To create balance and independence is a thankless task. But, good luck anyways.
Shoot out privately of course - just to compare notes, swap gear, drink a couple beers, have few loughs. I have few amps that you might want to try with your Zus......SET - Both.

But honestly, I can not say that I really NEED another pair of speakers ( If I can build them) but I am familiar with Zu house sound and it is NOT BAD......NOT BAD AT ALL. I just did not feel like paying someone few grands for speakers like that. At $999..... it was very tempting. Besides, it might be useful while compering future DIY speakers of my to something more mainstream and widely known as well as established like Zu Audio.

I'll bet you tho that these new Zu prices are driven ONLY by today's state of economy.
Few years back it would be introduced at minimum twice this price.... if not more.

Today, if you have cash and are hifi shopping, you are KING!!!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #25 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 06:40 am »

Having heard a number of Zu speakers....sure looks like a nice deal....

Mariusz · « **Reply #26 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 06:56 am »

FWIW - I did not like the Druids all that much and had even less enthusiasm for the top of the line Zu Presence. Heard some optimistic opinions about Essence. But generally these particular speakers generate some fun threads to read. Some audiophiles love Zus, some hate them. I would like to like them as a "comparison" speaker. They can sound good with right components. But I also heard them here at the Hyatt N.Y Hotel years ago and it was probably one of the less impressive demo rooms of the show. It could have been the room or lock of synergy. Whatever it was, it wasn't working. I hope these entry level Zus are better design and more polished. We will find out soon enough. If you like to stop by for a listen and a beer - you are more then welcome Chris

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #27 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 07:02 am »

At the House Party Tour.... they sounded good....downstairs - in a well treated room.

You missed that Rave....

Mariusz · « **Reply #28 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 07:10 am »

Believe, I want it.

Working weekends for a while now (no choice - but I am crazy good with squeegee

)
Haven't been to anything in ages.
Heard you pushed those Zus to limits

P.S
Going to PA on Sunday to hear some crap - want to go?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #29 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 07:17 am »

Quote

Heard you pushed those Zus to limits

You heard right....I had a Butler there....sounded nice !

Quote

Working weekends for a while now (no choice - but I am crazy good with squeegee...

Good....some dirty windows here....I'm too busy to clean them...can't make it Sunday....but thanks..

Mariusz · « **Reply #30 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 07:20 am »

Quote

Good....some dirty windows here....I'm too busy to clean them

There is always next time

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #31 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 07:25 am »

..... thanks Mariusz.

Audiovista · « **Reply #32 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 01:09 pm »

Quote from: Mariusz on 25 Sep 2010, 02:59 am

Oh yeah....... some (actually 1 member) complained that Omen might not be Cheap or Cheerful enough for this Circle.
What you guys think (new, used prices, Using it with cheap flea amps like MiniWatt or vintage would make the total system price within the guidelines. NO?? And WHAT about used market prices??) I try to keep this Circle loose without strong moderation but I can change that if guys insist!!!!

Cheers
Mariusz

Mariusz,

You are doing a great job facilitating this circle and I would leave it to you to decide if a product is Cheap and Cheerful enough to have it here

I am seriously tempted by Omens... and share your impressions about Zu presentation in Hyatt NY (2007 I think it was). I thought it was due to 300B amp they used for demo (not a big fan of that tube

).

Boris

Mariusz · « **Reply #33 on:** 25 Sep 2010, 05:39 pm »

Thank you Boris. It means a lot.
Omens might be considered a slippery slope subject for this particular circle however.
If it turns out to be true that it deserves the spot in the "top 10 speakers under a grand of all time"
then it just might become not only cheerful but truly a bargain. BTW that is in the title of this thread. Nobody makes any claims regarding this speaker........ especially since no one heard them in depth to make any meaningful evaluation. At this point, we simply speculate. Omens are the cheapest, most advance for the price speakers ever offered by Zu Audio and that is a fact. Should you consider these speakers - I do not know. IMO they are screaming deal for all those who always wanted to try the Zus or something more tube friendly. It doesn't apply to speaker builders but even if you decided to clone these it might not be worth (all the trouble/work) all the parts, materials and time to give your clones adequate appearance - forget the authentic Zu finish.

As to those 300b amps from the famous Hyatt Zu room......well, I had those and they were real bad. I passed them along to Louis (Ω)

- hopefully we are still friends

Coincidentally, during my last visit to Louis' old shop, I had a MiniWatt with me. We hooked it up to one of his prototype monitors and it (IMO) killed those 300b monos on the 1st note.
Never had a chance to get my MiniWatt back - I think Louis still got it in his demo room.

But my point is (always was) that synergy is very important. So is the design and execution. I am hoping that Omens are the speakers that Zu can be proud of.

coolsax · « **Reply #34 on:** 27 Sep 2010, 06:40 pm »

question from a relative newb... if its say the minimum ohms is 9, how does this work normal amps that state 4 and 8 ohm capability should those amps be able to run the Omens or would need a specific type of amp that usually states 9-12 ohm capability.. may be a dumb questions but I"ve heard nothing but good things about ZU and so this particular speaker caught my attention.

Gopher · « **Reply #35 on:** 28 Sep 2010, 12:47 am »

Mariusz,

I'd be game for sure. I'll be very curious about the Omens performance as I would love to be able to recommend it to friends. Nothing formal just some brews and listening.

Speaking of slippery slopes. The Soul standard is out and with intro pricing: http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul.html

I'd still consider the Omen cheap and cheerful, but the Soul probably won't fit that criteria as its starting to get up there.

Mariusz · « **Reply #36 on:** 28 Sep 2010, 01:08 am »

Quote from: Gopher on 28 Sep 2010, 12:47 am

Mariusz,

I'd be game for sure. I'll be very curious about the Omens performance as I would love to be able to recommend it to friends. Nothing formal just some brews and listening.

Speaking of slippery slopes. The Soul standard is out and with intro pricing: http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul.html

I'd still consider the Omen cheap and cheerful, but the Soul probably won't fit that criteria as its starting to get up there.

Absolutely - nothing formal...... just 50 hungry, bored audiophiles with itchy fingers to #@$ with your gear.

Just kidding.

You are probably right with "slippery slope"

(that is still a screaming deal)
but, I really like the general direction Zu's CEO chose for his company.

Now, on more specific side of things...... I'm still trying to figure out the major differences between bottom 3 models? Well, there is special lining, caps, binding posts....etc. Is there a difference in super tweeters between these models?

Gopher · « **Reply #37 on:** 28 Sep 2010, 01:18 am »

Same tweeters/drivers in both Souls and, though there is disagreement on the forums, from an email from the new Zu CEO it appears the Omen shares these traits too.

Internal wiring of the Soul standard and Omen is their new Mission cabling.

Omen offers same loading as Soul but in an easier to manufacture package.

Omen is a 12 ohm speaker vs. 16ohm Soul, also 98db/efficiency vs. 101db--this makes me assume the Soul might sound slightly more 'alive' based on how essence was described compared to druid.

What I'm curious of is how the Soul Standard, Omen and Druid sound next to each other as I've read of Zu describing the Omen as a shorter Druid...

HT cOz · « **Reply #38 on:** 28 Sep 2010, 01:20 am »

I like this direction too.

Bring it boys, lets grow this HiFi party and get some fresh blood into 2ch music!

Way better to grow the base!

Mariusz · « **Reply #39 on:** 28 Sep 2010, 02:11 am »

Quote from: HT cOz on 28 Sep 2010, 01:20 am

I like this direction too.

Bring it boys, lets grow this HiFi party and get some fresh blood into 2ch music!

Way better to grow the base!

I am NOT a fanboy of Zu but I'm a fanboy of great value for my/your $$$.
If they can bring quality music reproduction to the messes, they will intrigue me ( and thousands of others)

Quote from: Gopher on 28 Sep 2010, 01:18 am

Same tweeters/drivers in both Souls and, though there is disagreement on the forums, from an email from the new Zu CEO it appears the Omen shares these traits too.

Internal wiring of the Soul standard and Omen is their new Mission cabling.

Omen offers same loading as Soul but in an easier to manufacture package.

Omen is a 12 ohm speaker vs. 16ohm Soul, also 98db/efficiency vs. 101db--this makes me assume the Soul might sound slightly more 'alive' based on how essence was described compared to druid.

What I'm curious of is how the Soul Standard, Omen and Druid sound next to each other as I've read of Zu describing the Omen as a shorter Druid...

Just to be on the same page, I pulled this quote from Zu website:

"a) internal cable
b) high pass filter network on super-tweeter
c) cabinet damping and MDF processing
d) input binding posts
e) finish options

a) Wire & cable: Soul is internally wired with Mission hookup wire. Soul Superfly is internally cabled with Zu's silver alloy B3 cable harness assembly.

b) Soul uses ERSE Pulse-X audio grade polypropylene capacitors. Soul Superfly uses Mundorf Silver/Oil capacitors.

c) Cabinet: Soul Superfly is internally coated with a layer of QuietCoat® Composite™and has the MDF core bonded with a post layup penetrating binder. Soul does not.

d) Input binding posts: Soul Superfly uses Cardas® Patented Binding Posts that are forged to the Soul Superfly cable harness. Soul uses t aditional 5-way binding posts, connected with high quality Panduit® copper disconnects.

e) Soul Superfly can be custom ordered in any finish (premiums apply), Soul is available in Zu Smooth Matte black only.

What is the difference in sound between Soul and Soul Superfly? Discussed at bottom of page.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soul is a 16 ohm loudspeaker, best matched with tube amplifiers. However mainstream receivers and digital amps also match well generally speaking. Solid-state amps with high damping factors are typically not a good match with Soul or Soul Superfly."

Knowing all that: the upgrade to Mundorf (or other caps) and wiring isn't a big deal to DIY guys looking for some ways to narrow the differences or elevate the performance. The QuietCoat might be a little tricky. Waiting for a price quote from the manufacturer (It might be interesting to use this on other speaker projects).