RMAF 2010

Lefty052347 · « **Reply #20 on:** 9 Oct 2010, 09:58 pm »

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8742/

You should go to the address listed above for technical details of the wolfson 8742 chip.

Please note:

1 An internal jumper needs to be used to process 192 bit signals.
2 The Atlona uses the hdmi output from the player and de-embeds the signal from the hdmi signal.
3 The hybrid and standard vision dac use the same digital filter board. Only the analog section is different.

I hope this answers most of your questions.

Regards,
Dean

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Oct 2010, 12:22 pm »

Well, here we go, start the count down!

Audiofest starts Friday!!!

5 DAYS & COUNTING

gregmav · « **Reply #22 on:** 14 Oct 2010, 01:13 am »

Quote from: Lefty052347 on 9 Oct 2010, 09:58 pm

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8742/

You should go to the address listed above for technical details of the wolfson 8742 chip.

Please note:

1 An internal jumper needs to be used to process 192 bit signals.
2 The Atlona uses the hdmi output from the player and de-embeds the signal from the hdmi signal.
3 The hybrid and standard vision dac use the same digital filter board. Only the analog section is different.

I hope this answers most of your questions.

Regards,
Dean

So, I was over reading about the Vision DAC in another thread, and from what Frank mentioned, I got a little confused. He cautioned someone not to move the internal jumper to the 192 position unless he had some hi-res stuff to play back on it, because it won't play standard redbook CD's in that position. Did I understand that correctly? If that is the case then can you not play SACD, DVD-Audio and Redbook CD with the jumper in the 192 position? Sounds like if that is the case it seems like kinda a pain in the ass to have to move the jumper back and forth. If anybody could help out here I would appreciate it. Thanks.

Lefty052347 · « **Reply #23 on:** 14 Oct 2010, 02:57 am »

Yes, the jumper has to be engaged to play 192 bit material. Although the DAC will play non 192 bit in that position, the sound will not be hi fi. As delivered, the jumper is inside the chassis but not engaged.

Regards,
Dean

trebejo · « **Reply #24 on:** 14 Oct 2010, 06:58 am »

So suppose I have a 16-bit CD of, say, Beethoven's 7th conducted by Kleiber Jr., and it's about 500 MB uncompressed. Does that become a file of size

(192/16)*500MB = 6GB

in the 192-bit version? Your terabyte hard drive would then go from holding 1800 symphonies down to 150. OUCH!

It would be interesting to see what a lossless compression algorithm would do with this thing. The 16-bit CD should be compressed to about 300 MB in, say, flac. I have a sneaking suspicion that if it's smart enough, the compression algorithm should be able to take that 192-bit file and compress it into... the same 300 MB? The reason being that 20 khz is 20 khz, no matter how many bits we use.

If Shannon's theorem says what we think it says, then when the signal is ultimately taken to analog, it should not matter whether it was 16 bits or 192 bits, since 16 bits already covers the spectrum up to 20 khz. There cannot be a difference between them if we assume that math is an accurate subject.

Shannon's theorem is correct, regardless of the font size used in its proof.

Now, if we want to convey the ~~musical~~ information beyond 20 khz, that's another matter. Our household pets may have something to bark on the matter...

modular747 · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 Oct 2010, 09:56 am »

Quote from: trebejo on 14 Oct 2010, 06:58 am

It would be interesting to see what a lossless compression algorithm would do with this thing.

Lossless compression is already included in the CD format, as it is in video formats.

trebejo · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 Oct 2010, 10:24 am »

Quote from: modular747 on 14 Oct 2010, 09:56 am

Lossless compression is already included in the CD format, as it is in video formats.

Oh no... flac will compress a CD by as much as 50%. Are we talking about the same thing?

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 Oct 2010, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: modular747 on 14 Oct 2010, 09:56 am

Lossless compression is already included in the CD format, as it is in video formats.

Standard CD's do not have any compression - lossy or lossless - on the data stream.

Tom

modular747 · « **Reply #28 on:** 15 Oct 2010, 12:57 am »

Quote from: Tom Alverson on 14 Oct 2010, 02:59 pm

Standard CD's do not have any compression - lossy or lossless - on the data stream.

Sorry, I ment the high bit "DVD" audio formats.

gregmav · « **Reply #29 on:** 15 Oct 2010, 01:27 am »

Quote from: Lefty052347 on 14 Oct 2010, 02:57 am

Yes, the jumper has to be engaged to play 192 bit material. Although the DAC will play non 192 bit in that position, the sound will not be hi fi. As delivered, the jumper is inside the chassis but not engaged.

Regards,
Dean

So, what you are telling me is when I want to play SACD and DVD-Audio, I need to manually adjust the jumper, and when I want to play redbook CD's I have to manually move the jumper back? I wonder if inserting the Atlona HD577 De-embedder in between the transport and the Vision DAC (as Frank has mentioned he has done) eliminates the need to move the jumper back and forth?

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #30 on:** 15 Oct 2010, 01:54 am »

Quote from: modular747 on 15 Oct 2010, 12:57 am

Sorry, I ment the high bit "DVD" audio formats.

Correct, but not to be confused with "DVD-Audio" which is either uncompressed or compressed with a lossless method. The audio tracks on a DVD movie disk are compressed, usually with Dolby AC-3.

Tom

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #31 on:** 15 Oct 2010, 03:38 am »

Hate to re-rail this thread, but...See ya in 12 hours

avahifi · « **Reply #32 on:** 16 Oct 2010, 02:52 pm »

No need to move the jumper from its factory installed setting unless you are playing the vary rare 192K material. We found absolutely no digital discs available at RMAF available with 192K recordings. That is still the domain of computer junkies.

At RMAF we are playing SACD 96K 24bit material after de-embedding it from the HDMI ouput of our OPPO blu ray player with an Atlona 577 and feeding the digital audio into our Vision Hybrid DAC. The results are musically awesome.

This configuration also plays standard rebook CD amd DVD -Audio CD with no adjustments. The "move the jumper wire" issue is much overblown.

Regards.

Frank

gregmav · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 Oct 2010, 05:03 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 16 Oct 2010, 02:52 pm

No need to move the jumper from its factory installed setting unless you are playing the vary rare 192K material. We found absolutely no digital discs available at RMAF available with 192K recordings. That is still the domain of computer junkies.

At RMAF we are playing SACD 96K 24bit material after de-embedding it from the HDMI ouput of our OPPO blu ray player with an Atlona 577 and feeding the digital audio into our Vision Hybrid DAC. The results are musically awesome.

This configuration also plays standard rebook CD amd DVD -Audio CD with no adjustments. The "move the jumper wire" issue is much overblown.

Regards.

Frank

Frank,

So what you are saying is that you can play SACD, DVD-Audio AND redbook CD's through the system of the Oppo, the Altlona HD-577 and the Vision DAC without having to move the internal jumper? I just want to be clear. Thanks for the help.

One other thing. Are you only using the HDMI hookup to play SACD, or are you able to play back DVD-Audio and redbook CD that way, as well?

Wayner · « **Reply #34 on:** 16 Oct 2010, 06:03 pm »

CDs, DVD audio and SACDs are not 192k, so there is no need to move any jumper wire. Moving the jumper wire is for 192K sources only (like high res sources downloaded on a computer).

Wayner

gregmav · « **Reply #35 on:** 16 Oct 2010, 06:13 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 16 Oct 2010, 06:03 pm

CDs, DVD audio and SACDs are not 192k, so there is no need to move any jumper wire. Moving the jumper wire is for 192K sources only (like high res sources downloaded on a computer).

Wayner

Wayner,

Thanks for the response. My question is, what do I need as far as cables (and how) to hook up the system as Frank describes (the Oppo, the Atlona HD-577 and the Vision DAC) so I can play SACD, DVD-Audio and redbook CD's without making any other physical adjustments?

avahifi · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 Oct 2010, 08:28 pm »

What we used very successfully at RMAF was the following setup:

Oppo blue ray player connected to Atlona de-embedder via a HDMI cable.

96K 24bit SACD or standard redbook digital output from Atlona to AVA Vision Hybrid DAC connected via single coax interconnect cable. We could have used optical digital cable with equal results. Stereo analog audio output from Vision Hybrid DAC to AVA Avastar Hybrid preamp to either Ultravalve tube amp and Songtowers or Ultra+ Double 350 amp to HT2TL speakers.

No need to disconnect Atlona for standard redbook CDs. It worked just fine with that as well as as with SACD and DVD Audio. Since none of the material was 192K, the internal jumper was never in place.

No changes made during the show for any format available to play. Just the initial setup.

Much easier to do than you guys are trying to make it out to be.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

gregmav · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 Oct 2010, 12:36 am »

Frank,

Do you have to use coax or optical to connect from the Atlona to the Vision DAC?

Lefty052347 · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Oct 2010, 02:49 am »

Either.

Regards,
Dean

gregmav · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 Oct 2010, 03:32 am »

So those are the ONLY 2 options? RCA's are out?